Knicks · Preparing the fan base to lose Mitch. (page 2)

Nalod wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:we should have traded him... at $1 million any contender could have fit him into their equation, which means there would have been demand, which means quality pick(s)

I love what he brings but I think its incomplete. I am going to feel completely different about him once he's paid to be a difference maker, just feels like one of those

Last summer he was healing from a non contact foot fracture. What was his value at that moment?
He is unrestricted FA who just found his legs about january and trade dead was February 10th I believe. As unrestricted FA any team getting him gets those same perimeters to resign him as we did so why burn picks/players on a unresticted FA who is likely to test the market. Quality picks for a player who is an offensive liability and FT liability to close out games?
Maybe we did listen to offers and what was being offered did not work. Its possible we have an asset to use via sign and trade with some offers outlined for then?

Remember, this version of rebound offensive board eating Mitch was not apparent a few months ago.
I agree and would have loved to have traded him but his foot injury really was quite unfortunate for knicks. Had he not healed as well as he did (had to do nothing for months) and had a recurrence it would have killed his value and likely our desire to resign him.

Go back on the timeline and consider the windows and the parameters at that very moment. It very much mattered.

As it played out the 12.5mil offer would have been great for us. He is likely valued at 15-20mil per. Does that matter? Sure 3-7.5mil per over 4-5 years does!!!!!

I think he proved he rebounded enough by the deadline to be an enticing piece to a contender.. if we resign him we are basically locking in a team that massive shat the bed and I really hate that idea

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

SupremeCommander wrote:

Nalod wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:we should have traded him... at $1 million any contender could have fit him into their equation, which means there would have been demand, which means quality pick(s)

I love what he brings but I think its incomplete. I am going to feel completely different about him once he's paid to be a difference maker, just feels like one of those

Last summer he was healing from a non contact foot fracture. What was his value at that moment?
He is unrestricted FA who just found his legs about january and trade dead was February 10th I believe. As unrestricted FA any team getting him gets those same perimeters to resign him as we did so why burn picks/players on a unresticted FA who is likely to test the market. Quality picks for a player who is an offensive liability and FT liability to close out games?
Maybe we did listen to offers and what was being offered did not work. Its possible we have an asset to use via sign and trade with some offers outlined for then?

Remember, this version of rebound offensive board eating Mitch was not apparent a few months ago.
I agree and would have loved to have traded him but his foot injury really was quite unfortunate for knicks. Had he not healed as well as he did (had to do nothing for months) and had a recurrence it would have killed his value and likely our desire to resign him.

Go back on the timeline and consider the windows and the parameters at that very moment. It very much mattered.

As it played out the 12.5mil offer would have been great for us. He is likely valued at 15-20mil per. Does that matter? Sure 3-7.5mil per over 4-5 years does!!!!!

I think he proved he rebounded enough by the deadline to be an enticing piece to a contender.. if we resign him we are basically locking in a team that massive shat the bed and I really hate that idea

To whom would that contender be and why did they not go for it? 1st round pick? For a three month rental you can only offer 12.5mil? And you can’t play him cuz he can’t hit a FT in crunch time?

Its a great idea to trade him if he gonna walk, but there are those pesky details.
Also, are teams “contenders” yet need him? What team does he complete?

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

There is a larger group that also loves the "look at the one game sample size I'm making to express a pretty lame point" supporters out there too. Brown also just had a 12 rebound night in 20 minutes against Embiib. Dude is long and can rebound.

So what now?

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

There is a larger group that also loves the "look at the one game sample size I'm making to express a pretty lame point" supporters out there too. Brown also just had a 12 rebound night in 20 minutes against Embiib. Dude is long and can rebound.

So what now?

Lame point?

We have been touting his rebounding for the past month and he only manages 2 against this guy? With no Mobley or Allen this was literally Robinson's time to shine and instead he throws up a dud.

But you're right. Still a small sample size. Everyone has a bad game and it's not like he has never played like this before...Lets give him his 18/5 contract (I thought read that he was looking for Allen type money). I'm sure it will all work out.

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

There is a larger group that also loves the "look at the one game sample size I'm making to express a pretty lame point" supporters out there too. Brown also just had a 12 rebound night in 20 minutes against Embiib. Dude is long and can rebound.

So what now?

Lame point?

We have been touting his rebounding for the past month and he only manages 2 against this guy? With no Mobley or Allen this was literally Robinson's time to shine and instead he throws up a dud.

But you're right. Still a small sample size. Everyone has a bad game and it's not like he has never played like this before...Lets give him his 18/5 contract (I thought read that he was looking for Allen type money). I'm sure it will all work out.

Here are the Centers that are definitely better. It's less than half the league. What's your replacement and plan moving forward for the C spot?

And as long as we are on 1 game sample sizes, Mitch did either out play or go even with Ayton in their last matchup. 17 points and 15 rebounds.

It's all about this work ethic and potential. What do you think of him?

Here are the other C's

1st tier Jokic, Embiid, KAT, Gobert, Bam, Ayton.
2nd tier: Allen, Mobley, Capela, Vucevic, Myles Turner, Adams, Valancunias, Robert Williams.

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

There is a larger group that also loves the "look at the one game sample size I'm making to express a pretty lame point" supporters out there too. Brown also just had a 12 rebound night in 20 minutes against Embiib. Dude is long and can rebound.

So what now?

Lame point?

We have been touting his rebounding for the past month and he only manages 2 against this guy? With no Mobley or Allen this was literally Robinson's time to shine and instead he throws up a dud.

But you're right. Still a small sample size. Everyone has a bad game and it's not like he has never played like this before...Lets give him his 18/5 contract (I thought read that he was looking for Allen type money). I'm sure it will all work out.

Here are the Centers that are definitely better. It's less than half the league. What's your replacement and plan moving forward for the C spot?

And as long as we are on 1 game sample sizes, Mitch did either out play or go even with Ayton in their last matchup. 17 points and 15 rebounds.

It's all about this work ethic and potential. What do you think of him?

Here are the other C's

1st tier Jokic, Embiid, KAT, Gobert, Bam, Ayton.
2nd tier: Allen, Mobley, Capela, Vucevic, Myles Turner, Adams, Valancunias, Robert Williams.

Jericho Sims

I'm hitting the reset button on the center position.
Per your list, more than half the NBA are operating with a less than adequate big man in the middle, so I would be ok with Sims and another "seasoned" vet or big PF to play the position in the meantime. I wouldn't handcuff myself, financially, on a player that doesn't move the needle on the positive side....and once that jumping ability goes away, he will pretty much be useless (See D. Jordan).

If he accepts a contract similar to Noel, than that would be cool but I don't see that happening

It's fun to hypothesize about Robinson but it takes two to tango. You need to first examine the market. It seems like the MLE would be the lowest number the Knicks have to beat.

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

There is a larger group that also loves the "look at the one game sample size I'm making to express a pretty lame point" supporters out there too. Brown also just had a 12 rebound night in 20 minutes against Embiib. Dude is long and can rebound.

So what now?

Lame point?

We have been touting his rebounding for the past month and he only manages 2 against this guy? With no Mobley or Allen this was literally Robinson's time to shine and instead he throws up a dud.

But you're right. Still a small sample size. Everyone has a bad game and it's not like he has never played like this before...Lets give him his 18/5 contract (I thought read that he was looking for Allen type money). I'm sure it will all work out.

Bro there is no WAY you are using a game against a g league team where nobody is trying as justification. Like these games count for literally nothing.

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

martin wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

There is a larger group that also loves the "look at the one game sample size I'm making to express a pretty lame point" supporters out there too. Brown also just had a 12 rebound night in 20 minutes against Embiib. Dude is long and can rebound.

So what now?

Lame point?

We have been touting his rebounding for the past month and he only manages 2 against this guy? With no Mobley or Allen this was literally Robinson's time to shine and instead he throws up a dud.

But you're right. Still a small sample size. Everyone has a bad game and it's not like he has never played like this before...Lets give him his 18/5 contract (I thought read that he was looking for Allen type money). I'm sure it will all work out.

Here are the Centers that are definitely better. It's less than half the league. What's your replacement and plan moving forward for the C spot?

And as long as we are on 1 game sample sizes, Mitch did either out play or go even with Ayton in their last matchup. 17 points and 15 rebounds.

It's all about this work ethic and potential. What do you think of him?

Here are the other C's

1st tier Jokic, Embiid, KAT, Gobert, Bam, Ayton.
2nd tier: Allen, Mobley, Capela, Vucevic, Myles Turner, Adams, Valancunias, Robert Williams.

Jericho Sims

I'm hitting the reset button on the center position.
Per your list, more than half the NBA are operating with a less than adequate big man in the middle, so I would be ok with Sims and another "seasoned" vet or big PF to play the position in the meantime. I wouldn't handcuff myself, financially, on a player that doesn't move the needle on the positive side....and once that jumping ability goes away, he will pretty much be useless (See D. Jordan).

If he accepts a contract similar to Noel, than that would be cool but I don't see that happening

The only thing Sims does right now is set picks. Despite his efforts he’s a shit defender and an okay finisher. Mitch is levels above him.

I get the idea of locking into mediocrity, and Mitch has his warts- but age is not one of them. We’re buying into his peak athletic years- a five year deal will be over when he is 28/29- and that will be the time to decide not to bring him back.

Mitch has great games without good centers. Do knicks have good games vs. winning teams solid 5’s?
Mitch might not be the sole problem but he is not the solution eitehr? Im really on the fence with no conviction we should sign him. If sims can keep hs fouls in check he brings a lot of Mitch.

Nalod wrote:The stats are one thing. Question is at the money we talking, are we winning with him? Does he not shoulder any “blame” for this season? Its like we all in on Kemba, but thats ok becuawe he was not really expected, then Thibs for starting Burks, and the majority rest on Randle.

Mitch has great games without good centers. Do knicks have good games vs. winning teams solid 5’s?
Mitch might not be the sole problem but he is not the solution eitehr? Im really on the fence with no conviction we should sign him. If sims can keep hs fouls in check he brings a lot of Mitch.

We got a lot of holes on this team. Why open another one? It’s not like you can use the $ we are giving Mitch on another player, and keeping him gives us the chance to trade him later.

Dude is finally coming into his own physically, emotionally and skill & intelligence. Giving him up now after his three years here is basically saying, nah, we don’t believe our eyes.

Why keep RJ? Same reasons you just laid out. How did he do against Derozan? Not good? Get him out of here. What is our record with RJ?

franco12 wrote:I don’t see how not keeping Mitch helps in any way- it’s not like we’re going to be suddenly under the cap with $m of space? We’ve got some guys coming off, but we also have RJ and Cam that are going to be due pay days. Randle, Evan.

I get the idea of locking into mediocrity, and Mitch has his warts- but age is not one of them. We’re buying into his peak athletic years- a five year deal will be over when he is 28/29- and that will be the time to decide not to bring him back.

There is zero advantage to letting him walk. Zero.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:I don’t see how not keeping Mitch helps in any way- it’s not like we’re going to be suddenly under the cap with $m of space? We’ve got some guys coming off, but we also have RJ and Cam that are going to be due pay days. Randle, Evan.

I get the idea of locking into mediocrity, and Mitch has his warts- but age is not one of them. We’re buying into his peak athletic years- a five year deal will be over when he is 28/29- and that will be the time to decide not to bring him back.

this is the most basic and sound argument. He's got 2 elite skills that impact the game on both sides of the ball. His rim protection and his offensive rebounding. He's also a great fit next to RJ/Obi (not so much Randle).

There is zero advantage to letting him walk. Zero.

I agree. To a point. If a team comes in with a crazy offer, see Jeremy Lin, then they have to shake his hand and let him go. This is the other side of youth development. If you're doing a halfway decent job of development you're going to reach a point where you're not going to be able to keep them all. You at least hope that you'd get some value back.

Fact is there is not viable alternatives if mitch walks and it creates a HOLE we can’t fill on April 5th. When Memphis traded Valachunas for Adams and the 10th pick it looked like they were paid to take Adams who was not a good fit with Zion as “Chunas has better range. yet, Adams for that reason was a better fit with Jackson. “Chemistry” The 10th pick was a great bonus! Trade was on paper a great idea. NOLA did overcome an awful start and Memphis is a contender.
Do we know Randle sticks? We picking a center with Obi in mind as the starter?
I can’t fill holes unless I know where they are.
As it stands, most see Evan and Randle as the culprits for our step back. That might have some partial truths but the pieces have to fit. That RJ grew up and changed the paradigm also is to be considered.
I have discussed a path to Ayton (small odds) as one of many scenarios one might ponder. How many others are there?
If left in tact I believe we are a .500 teams worthy of play in or better finish just from internal improvement.
Im not here to say we should be happy or not with that. I just don’t know what else is possible but the knicks like 29 other teams will try there best to get better or think they are.

Finish what we started: Bring KP back? LOL!!!!

My Brain - I think we have to be careful inferring that any one player is indispensable on a team that is flawed and failed to make the playoffs.

What will likely happen - the Knicks will work to re-sign Mitch because he fits in with Thibs defense first focus.

foosballnick wrote:My Heart - I love Mitch and think the team needs to do what it takes to re-sign him.

My Brain - I think we have to be careful inferring that any one player is indispensable on a team that is flawed and failed to make the playoffs.

What will likely happen - the Knicks will work to re-sign Mitch because he fits in with Thibs defense first focus.

Well said!!1!

Swishfm3 wrote:Love that all the "Sign Robinson at all cost" supporters completely ignored his 2 rebound, -7 effort against a team with journey man M. Brown and without Mobley and Allen.

Hard pass on Mitch Robinson. Good player but I believe Sims and Noel can do everything he can...including miss FT. No way should the Knicks lock +15mil on this guy.

.....also don't trust that he will remain healthy after signing a long term lucrative deal.

Noel is always injured and Sims is a decent backup C

Letting Mitch walk this summer is the next great Knick debacle. Meanwhile we are stuck with Randle and his 4 year $100+ million extension