Taj. He should be coming into his prime soon.
Julius. But play him less minutes unless he rediscovers his MIP mojo.
ToddTT wrote:Taj. He should be coming into his prime soon.
I feel this. Outside of Burks, Taj was the Knicks best 3point shooter
Paolo Banchero Chet Holmgren or Jabari Smith🤞
As much as it pains me, Julius - because maybe we sell high for once - not sure Topin is as good as he showed in 10 games against teams that were looking forward to the summer or the play offs.
But - what are our most tradable assets? IQ, Obi, Burkes, RJ- in order?
If we can find some kind of upgrade from Obi, dallas 1st, bunch of second rounder & filler (Kemba, Noel). Maybe that is a package for Turner & we let Mitch walk?
franco12 wrote:As much as it pains me, Julius - because maybe we sell high for once - not sure Topin is as good as he showed in 10 games against teams that were looking forward to the summer or the play offs.But - what are our most tradable assets? IQ, Obi, Burkes, RJ- in order?
If we can find some kind of upgrade from Obi, dallas 1st, bunch of second rounder & filler (Kemba, Noel). Maybe that is a package for Turner & we let Mitch walk?
I will never understand the love for Turner. Dude is hurt all the time and he is also on an expiring contract and I'd guess he ain't looking for a paycut.
What has he done to warrant trading what amounts to multiple 1st round picks and second round picks?
For the last 3 years he has shot under 35% from 3point land. Dude barely plays 30 minutes a game while missing half the season for the last 2 and 20 games three seasons ago.
Has he come close to sniffing an all defensive team? I don't even know
I am ready to close the door on Randle. I am excited about what Obi brings. He puts so much pressure on the other team in transition. I love it. One of his shortcomings coming into the league was his defense and he has not been terrible.
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:As much as it pains me, Julius - because maybe we sell high for once - not sure Topin is as good as he showed in 10 games against teams that were looking forward to the summer or the play offs.But - what are our most tradable assets? IQ, Obi, Burkes, RJ- in order?
If we can find some kind of upgrade from Obi, dallas 1st, bunch of second rounder & filler (Kemba, Noel). Maybe that is a package for Turner & we let Mitch walk?
I will never understand the love for Turner. Dude is hurt all the time and he is also on an expiring contract and I'd guess he ain't looking for a paycut.
What has he done to warrant trading what amounts to multiple 1st round picks and second round picks?
For the last 3 years he has shot under 35% from 3point land. Dude barely plays 30 minutes a game while missing half the season for the last 2 and 20 games three seasons ago.
Has he come close to sniffing an all defensive team? I don't even know
Hey! I'm not trying to make a Turner thread, I was just spitballing names with similar $.
Premise is our best shot to upgrade our talent is to sell high.
Personally I would love it if we could trade Randle and let Obi be the guy and see if he can become something.
franco12 wrote:As much as it pains me, Julius - because maybe we sell high for once - not sure Topin is as good as he showed in 10 games against teams that were looking forward to the summer or the play offs.But - what are our most tradable assets? IQ, Obi, Burkes, RJ- in order?
If we can find some kind of upgrade from Obi, dallas 1st, bunch of second rounder & filler (Kemba, Noel). Maybe that is a package for Turner & we let Mitch walk?
How about we give our 8th pick in the draft every opportunity to fulfill his potential so that we are clear and not unsure.
martin wrote:franco12 wrote:As much as it pains me, Julius - because maybe we sell high for once - not sure Topin is as good as he showed in 10 games against teams that were looking forward to the summer or the play offs.But - what are our most tradable assets? IQ, Obi, Burkes, RJ- in order?
If we can find some kind of upgrade from Obi, dallas 1st, bunch of second rounder & filler (Kemba, Noel). Maybe that is a package for Turner & we let Mitch walk?
I will never understand the love for Turner. Dude is hurt all the time and he is also on an expiring contract and I'd guess he ain't looking for a paycut.
What has he done to warrant trading what amounts to multiple 1st round picks and second round picks?
For the last 3 years he has shot under 35% from 3point land. Dude barely plays 30 minutes a game while missing half the season for the last 2 and 20 games three seasons ago.
Has he come close to sniffing an all defensive team? I don't even know
I believe when healthy, Turner was always one of the top shot blockers during the season, so I would be surprised (again when healthy) that Turner is not mentioned on the all Defensive team.
But the reason for making Turner as a replacement option is to open the floor. Even if Turner is only a career 35% (assuming that's even true), that fact that he's willing to shoot and known to be a 3pt shooting big, it will open the floor for RJ and Mitch who live at the rim. So that's on paper.
Steve Novak was always a player I found intriguing. He can shoot 3s like a guard, but doesn't have the defensive shot blocking abilities like Turner. So in a perfect world, Turner will help open the floor and provide some shot blocking on the defensive end. Plus, Turner was not happy on that team or with the playing time he was getting. So you would think a change in scenary would be bennificial for Turner and the knicks.
I was on the Turner train as well, but after his last injury, I quickly jumped off while the train was moving, due to injury risks.
Uptown wrote:franco12 wrote:As much as it pains me, Julius - because maybe we sell high for once - not sure Topin is as good as he showed in 10 games against teams that were looking forward to the summer or the play offs.But - what are our most tradable assets? IQ, Obi, Burkes, RJ- in order?
If we can find some kind of upgrade from Obi, dallas 1st, bunch of second rounder & filler (Kemba, Noel). Maybe that is a package for Turner & we let Mitch walk?
How about we give our 8th pick in the draft every opportunity to fulfill his potential so that we are clear and not unsure.
Talk to Thibs. I agree, but when we find out he isn't as good as he showed in that small stretch, he will have 0 value.
Randle's the better player, but he's a square peg in round hole. Knicks need to play fast - even Thibs acknowledged this by season's end. And even though Julius personally looks better at that pace as well, he still refuses.
I get the appeal of trying to rebuild his value, but I'm terrified that once we increase his stock, we fall back into the same trap, re-commit to him and then watch him crash again.
I don't want to have this same convo next year.
Give me Obi.
Randle. Change the PG. Change the pecking order with RJ, and bring in Brunson. I have a belief that either randle stays and buys in to what ever his coach wants or he get made gone.
So given a choice between the two, I want Randle. If Obi can take minutes, even all of them, thats cool too.
If change can happen, let them both play.
I know Randle is a ball stopper, but if he wasn't?
Obi has to show he can shoot. If he can, sure let him play.
See, both need to up their game. I believe part of Randles issues was there was a changing of the guard last season. That needs to be sorted.
when Randle is playing well he's a 2 way guy who just do tons of things that all lead to winning games. If his upside is the guy we had last year its worth trying to get him right.
Nalod wrote:Randle. Change the PG. Change the pecking order with RJ, and bring in Brunson. I have a belief that either randle stays and buys in to what ever his coach wants or he get made gone.
So given a choice between the two, I want Randle. If Obi can take minutes, even all of them, thats cool too.
If change can happen, let them both play.
I know Randle is a ball stopper, but if he wasn't?
Obi has to show he can shoot. If he can, sure let him play. See, both need to up their game. I believe part of Randles issues was there was a changing of the guard last season. That needs to be sorted.
Agree. So many ignore the importance of a good PG. Payton was definitely not the best but he had a familiarity with Randle that helped Randle and made a difference. Hopefully a solid PG will lead to a good start for Randle. Which he will need in order to turn around how fans support him.
I just do not see Obi able to get to Randle's level. However, I did see signs of Randle not fitting in with a fast paced, run and gun team. Which if that is what the Knicks decide to go with, Obi would be the better fit. The million dollar question is does that style translate to more success?
HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:Randle. Change the PG. Change the pecking order with RJ, and bring in Brunson. I have a belief that either randle stays and buys in to what ever his coach wants or he get made gone.
So given a choice between the two, I want Randle. If Obi can take minutes, even all of them, thats cool too.
If change can happen, let them both play.
I know Randle is a ball stopper, but if he wasn't?
Obi has to show he can shoot. If he can, sure let him play. See, both need to up their game. I believe part of Randles issues was there was a changing of the guard last season. That needs to be sorted.
Agree. So many ignore the importance of a good PG. Payton was definitely not the best but he had a familiarity with Randle that helped Randle and made a difference. Hopefully a solid PG will lead to a good start for Randle. Which he will need in order to turn around how fans support him.
I just do not see Obi able to get to Randle's level. However, I did see signs of Randle not fitting in with a fast paced, run and gun team. Which if that is what the Knicks decide to go with, Obi would be the better fit. The million dollar question is does that style translate to more success?
I think most understand the need for an impactful pg. You are overstating Paytons impact on Randle last year. Leading up to last season, Payton averaged nearly 7 assist per game. Last year, his assists average dropped to a career low, 3 per game and that was due to an emphasis on Randle-ball. On offense, Payton did one of two things: drive all the way to the hoop, or dumped the ball to Randle at the elbow and then hid in the corner. Paytons main impact on this team was on the defensive end.
Randle struggling to make the low % mid-range jumpers this year, that he made at a higher % last year, is on Randle. Payton rarely got Randle easy baskets. Randle got his, mainly out of iso-ball.
Herb Williams would be the penultimate stretch 4 now. Get it done, Leon!
fishmike wrote:when Randle is playing well he's a 2 way guy who just do tons of things that all lead to winning games. If his upside is the guy we had last year its worth trying to get him right.
That would make too much sense and doesn't fit the narrative of this thread.
I hope the problem was momentary pressure and not that he is some kind of a hole diva like Harden or Westbrook. Apologies to divas out there!
And for the record, I sure would like to see us find a way to use both Randle and Obi together.
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:when Randle is playing well he's a 2 way guy who just do tons of things that all lead to winning games. If his upside is the guy we had last year its worth trying to get him right.
That would make too much sense and doesn't fit the narrative of this thread.
I hope the problem was momentary pressure and not that he is some kind of a hole diva like Harden or Westbrook. Apologies to divas out there!
And for the record, I sure would like to see us find a way to use both Randle and Obi together.
Even when Randle was just a spazzy beyblade in his first year he was playing hard and had good body language. Following year MIP. Last year was bad from the start. Leon has known Randle for a long time and Thibs as well. Its a business and those relationships arent going to cost him his job. That is my basic hope and from what I have seen from the FO it appears realistic.
Obi just needs to be a better BB player (which he certainly is becoming). He's coming along just fine.
league is full of guys who sucked... until they didnt. Guys like Lavine and Booker were just volume scorers, then their teams got better and its like hey, we need a guy like Booker or Lavine. Truth is we just need time, and it may be a few years.
Here's a question Knick fans:
Why do we have to decide after 2 years Obi's future? He got 2 more years under his rookie deal. He's not going anywhere. Thibs doesnt bury guys. See Jimmy Butler. We should just keep drafting these athletic 2 way guys wait for some to pop. Including Obi. He looks great
Uptown wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Nalod wrote:Randle. Change the PG. Change the pecking order with RJ, and bring in Brunson. I have a belief that either randle stays and buys in to what ever his coach wants or he get made gone.
So given a choice between the two, I want Randle. If Obi can take minutes, even all of them, thats cool too.
If change can happen, let them both play.
I know Randle is a ball stopper, but if he wasn't?
Obi has to show he can shoot. If he can, sure let him play. See, both need to up their game. I believe part of Randles issues was there was a changing of the guard last season. That needs to be sorted.
Agree. So many ignore the importance of a good PG. Payton was definitely not the best but he had a familiarity with Randle that helped Randle and made a difference. Hopefully a solid PG will lead to a good start for Randle. Which he will need in order to turn around how fans support him.
I just do not see Obi able to get to Randle's level. However, I did see signs of Randle not fitting in with a fast paced, run and gun team. Which if that is what the Knicks decide to go with, Obi would be the better fit. The million dollar question is does that style translate to more success?
I think most understand the need for an impactful pg. You are overstating Paytons impact on Randle last year. Leading up to last season, Payton averaged nearly 7 assist per game. Last year, his assists average dropped to a career low, 3 per game and that was due to an emphasis on Randle-ball. On offense, Payton did one of two things: drive all the way to the hoop, or dumped the ball to Randle at the elbow and then hid in the corner. Paytons main impact on this team was on the defensive end.
Randle struggling to make the low % mid-range jumpers this year, that he made at a higher % last year, is on Randle. Payton rarely got Randle easy baskets. Randle got his, mainly out of iso-ball.
Think you are minimizing the importance of having a PG that you are familiar with. A PG that gets you the ball at your spot. Something that can be added is that our first unit not only had new, out of position PG's but also 2 completely new starters. However, can agree that Randle's other issue was that he could not maintain the high 3pt percentage.
