Knicks · Warriors showing y u don’t trade lottery picks (page 1)

You don’t get Kuminga’s back in a trade. They’ve built the team through the draft and instead of trading the picks for vet they got high end rookies who can not only help the team now but set the foundation for continued greatness.

That's all good in theory about drafting well but with the knicks you can't have bust like frank and knox and puts your team further back.

houston20 wrote:That's all good in theory about drafting well but with the knicks you can't have bust like frank and knox and puts your team further back.

Its a disaster. Go a whole season win 30 games and get zero help. We are never quite bad enough, or lucky enough to get a franchise difference maker.

BRIGGS wrote:You don’t get Kuminga’s back in a trade. They’ve built the team through the draft and instead of trading the picks for vet they got high end rookies who can not only help the team now but set the foundation for continued greatness.

Me watch game. Winner. Me like winner. yeah.
Rinse, lather, repeat.

There were three SFs available at our pick in that draft and the Knicks managed to get the worst one.

We have picks now. Team just needs to be patient. Don’t overact about missing the playoffs. Start Quickley from the start and we will at least make the 8th seed. Build through the draft.

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:You don’t get Kuminga’s back in a trade. They’ve built the team through the draft and instead of trading the picks for vet they got high end rookies who can not only help the team now but set the foundation for continued greatness.

Me watch game. Winner. Me like winner. yeah.
Rinse, lather, repeat.

No, Nalod, you clearly don't understand.

The Warriors made a lot of good cap decisions and resource management decisions under Bob Myers and Jerry West. Even some smaller to moderate ones that no one paid attention to in the beginning.

Because they had such a clean cap sheet and cap flexibility, they were able to package that with some luck ( Curry signed a below market deal because of his ankle issues and the overall cap took a huge spike upwards without the smoothing option being taken by the NBPA during a new labor negotiation) and get Kevin Durant.

The Warriors cap sheet was so relatively clean they could hold onto Durant, still paying in the luxury tax though but not saddled by bad contracts, long enough to get his valuable full Bird Rights

The Nets needed those full Bird Rights in order to fit Kyrie Irving and others onto their roster and make the money work. So they traded D'Angelo Russell essentially just for Durant's full Bird Rights.

The Warriors were able to "preserve" the cap utility of Durant's former contract by signing DLo to an extension.

They waited and Minnesota got desperate to keep KAT happy by trading for one of his personal friends in DLo. The cost was Wiggins and the pick that became Kuminga.

The lesson of Kuminga is small to medium decision you think don't matter can snowball into something good or snowball into something bad years later.

I have nothing against Lance Thomas. But that contract, grossly overpaid, removed the Knicks from other opportunities for the future. You can assign to all ugly Knicks decisions in the last decade. Signing Noah. Ugly. Trading for Bargs. Ugly. Overpaying Courtney Lee. Not so ugly but not a great idea. Signing a totally washed up Kemba Walker. Ugly. Not using the extra year they had to evaluate Randle and now they are stuck with his toxic idiotic team killing behavior. Ugly.

Kuminga was the bounty of good resource management decisions made a decade earlier and the culmination of good choices, even small ones, over and over again.

The Warriors were in a long playoff drought, and got a massive one year shot in the arm with Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry. The temptation was there to overpay those guys. But to much criticism, the Warriors let them walk. Some fans were really angry. Many pundits called it a bad decision. But the Warriors held their ground. If they had resigned and overpaid Jack and Landry, maybe Kuminga never ends up a Warrior.

Nalod, you don't understand. Here's an opportunity for you to do more than summarize pundit viewpoints and go out there and explore why things are happening around the league across time.

Jmpasq wrote:

houston20 wrote:That's all good in theory about drafting well but with the knicks you can't have bust like frank and knox and puts your team further back.

Its a disaster. Go a whole season win 30 games and get zero help. We are never quite bad enough, or lucky enough to get a franchise difference maker.

Kuminga is one thing. But Moses Moody is another. The Warriors could have drafted a guy who was more of a big reward/big risk guy. Or burned the pick in a trade. But they found a guy who could fit a practical role in the modern NBA.

If there is a lesson from the Warriors, the Knicks should just focus on players who can fit in the modern Space And Pace style game. Obi Toppin is a hard worker and a good teammate. But he doesn't truly fit in the modern game. That's not the best use of a draft pick.

Good decisions create good opportunities. Otto Porter is super valuable for the Dubs this year. He's not signing a minimum deal elsewhere but he thinks they can challenge for a ring.

Make good practical decisions. Find guys who fit the current league template. Treat every small decision just as important as the big splashy ones. Be willing to take short term pain to accept a long term overall vision for the team. This is how the Warriors got better. They got Big Money results by hoarding nickels.

Knicks finally got it right with the entire scouting team led by Walt perriman, formerly with Utah.He along with perry, Wesley, Rose and Aller are the brain trust and so far pretty good.
2020 PF. Toppin, PG/SG.Quickley(Marcus Morris Trade), 2021 SG/SF.Grimes, Pg.McBride, lefty pg Rokas J.(overseas) and Cen.Simms(2nd rd 58th pick) Along with RJ, Knicks got themselves a plethora of young talent.. Also traded a pick( Charlotte's) to obtain another youngster in Cam Reddish

Scott Perry's pick were Knox #9, MitchRob #36( 2nd rd ) RJ barrett 3rd overall and (Iggy( 2nd rd pick) no longer with team.) They still got Dallas pick in 2023.

houston20 wrote:That's all good in theory about drafting well but with the knicks you can't have bust like frank and knox and puts your team further back.

The Warriors coaching staff are 200% better than the Knicks poor weak coaching staff !!!
The Knicks past 10 head coaches didn't have a defensive-plan (except Thibs),and needed Iso-scoring players to put points on the Knicks board.
The Knicks have to draft NBA Ready players, because our young-core player program STINKS!
The past 30 yrs the Knicks rookie program has been the NBA top 5 worst programs for drafted players.
The only Knicks draft picks in the past 25 yrs whom exhaled were the picks that showed a high potential plus were NBA-Ready their first game in a Knicks uniform having a NBA level of talent on offense/defense.
Players like Quickley, MitchRob, Wilson Chandler, Nate Robinson, David Lee, Ariza, Nene, Rod Strickland, and Knicks last ROY Mark Jackson in 1987. Eight players in 25 years of drafting says Fire the guy who hires the draft-scouts.

I thought Jonathan Kuminga dynamic performance in the GLeague would've had him a top 5 pick, plus win the ROY.
Moses Moody looked like a BUST in the summer league games, and were a wasted (14th) pick in the first round, he need 1 or 2 full yrs in the GLeague.

WOODMANnYk wrote:Knicks finally got it right with the entire scouting team led by Walt perriman, formerly with Utah.He along with perry, Wesley, Rose and Aller are the brain trust and so far pretty good.
2020 PF. Toppin, PG/SG.Quickley(Marcus Morris Trade), 2021 SG/SF.Grimes, Pg.McBride, lefty pg Rokas J.(overseas) and Cen.Simms(2nd rd 58th pick) Along with RJ, Knicks got themselves a plethora of young talent.. Also traded a pick( Charlotte's) to obtain another youngster in Cam Reddish

Scott Perry's pick were Knox #9, MitchRob #36( 2nd rd ) RJ barrett 3rd overall and (Iggy( 2nd rd pick) no longer with team.) They still got Dallas pick in 2023.

In the 2021 draft the Knicks draft Priority (having 2 first-round picks) were a SF (replace Knox/Bullock), and PG to replace Payton/Rivers.
The 2021 draft were full of forwards which the Knicks did not select.

BRIGGS wrote:You don’t get Kuminga’s back in a trade. They’ve built the team through the draft and instead of trading the picks for vet they got high end rookies who can not only help the team now but set the foundation for continued greatness.

You’re one of the worst people for being wanting to trade first round picks, either to move down in the draft or for a player who’s just had a good stretch of games!

TripleThreat wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:You don’t get Kuminga’s back in a trade. They’ve built the team through the draft and instead of trading the picks for vet they got high end rookies who can not only help the team now but set the foundation for continued greatness.

Me watch game. Winner. Me like winner. yeah.
Rinse, lather, repeat.

No, Nalod, you clearly don't understand.

The Warriors made a lot of good cap decisions and resource management decisions under Bob Myers and Jerry West. Even some smaller to moderate ones that no one paid attention to in the beginning.

Because they had such a clean cap sheet and cap flexibility, they were able to package that with some luck ( Curry signed a below market deal because of his ankle issues and the overall cap took a huge spike upwards without the smoothing option being taken by the NBPA during a new labor negotiation) and get Kevin Durant.

The Warriors cap sheet was so relatively clean they could hold onto Durant, still paying in the luxury tax though but not saddled by bad contracts, long enough to get his valuable full Bird Rights

The Nets needed those full Bird Rights in order to fit Kyrie Irving and others onto their roster and make the money work. So they traded D'Angelo Russell essentially just for Durant's full Bird Rights.

The Warriors were able to "preserve" the cap utility of Durant's former contract by signing DLo to an extension.

They waited and Minnesota got desperate to keep KAT happy by trading for one of his personal friends in DLo. The cost was Wiggins and the pick that became Kuminga.

The lesson of Kuminga is small to medium decision you think don't matter can snowball into something good or snowball into something bad years later.

I have nothing against Lance Thomas. But that contract, grossly overpaid, removed the Knicks from other opportunities for the future. You can assign to all ugly Knicks decisions in the last decade. Signing Noah. Ugly. Trading for Bargs. Ugly. Overpaying Courtney Lee. Not so ugly but not a great idea. Signing a totally washed up Kemba Walker. Ugly. Not using the extra year they had to evaluate Randle and now they are stuck with his toxic idiotic team killing behavior. Ugly.

Kuminga was the bounty of good resource management decisions made a decade earlier and the culmination of good choices, even small ones, over and over again.

The Warriors were in a long playoff drought, and got a massive one year shot in the arm with Jarrett Jack and Carl Landry. The temptation was there to overpay those guys. But to much criticism, the Warriors let them walk. Some fans were really angry. Many pundits called it a bad decision. But the Warriors held their ground. If they had resigned and overpaid Jack and Landry, maybe Kuminga never ends up a Warrior.

Nalod, you don't understand. Here's an opportunity for you to do more than summarize pundit viewpoints and go out there and explore why things are happening around the league across time.

Save the key strokes. My point is Briggs is like posting after a good win by Warriors then saying the obvious. I admire the duality of what Warriors are doing, winnng with its now mature championship core while growing a new crop at the same time. I totally get the long view and the discipline of what they are doing while its tempting to cash in those young chips for a proven vet and perhaps win one more. Its also a business and they need to sustain a good product.
Im being sarcastic because Briggs as a fan can change his mind 100 times or point to lots of success and say “see, thats how its done”. This the morning after a good win. Reality is teams can’t do that over and over like fans can. They are bound by decisions without hindsight and can’t change on a dime. You know this.
.
Judging randle after toxic year or after all pro year? Easy to say after but since we don’t know what happend how do we know how it plays out? We don’t sign him last year then what? say he had another good season? We blast them for not signing. Again, his contract is not crazy.
I thought last week Memphis was the templete for greatness? Or was it the Suns? or the heat? Now we wake up Monday and Heat have no second option and Harden looks skinny? PHX looks pedestrian while Dallas went small and now bullock looks like a killer!

I know the mistakes of the last 10 years. They ugly. We seem to be doing things very different with Leon. He phuched the Kemba deal but its not a killer.

Yes and yes

Jmpasq wrote:

houston20 wrote:That's all good in theory about drafting well but with the knicks you can't have bust like frank and knox and puts your team further back.

Its a disaster. Go a whole season win 30 games and get zero help. We are never quite bad enough, or lucky enough to get a franchise difference maker.

The draft lottery is rigged.

Knicks could go 0-82 still not get the number 1 pick

WOODMANnYk wrote:Knicks finally got it right with the entire scouting team led by Walt perriman, formerly with Utah.He along with perry, Wesley, Rose and Aller are the brain trust and so far pretty good.
2020 PF. Toppin, PG/SG.Quickley(Marcus Morris Trade), 2021 SG/SF.Grimes, Pg.McBride, lefty pg Rokas J.(overseas) and Cen.Simms(2nd rd 58th pick) Along with RJ, Knicks got themselves a plethora of young talent.. Also traded a pick( Charlotte's) to obtain another youngster in Cam Reddish

Scott Perry's pick were Knox #9, MitchRob #36( 2nd rd ) RJ barrett 3rd overall and (Iggy( 2nd rd pick) no longer with team.) They still got Dallas pick in 2023.

Perry is still the defacto GM of the knicks. My take is leon is his boss and they have a different objective when draftings. MIlls had his. Perry’s “Picks” should look differet as he is surrounded by a new FO.