My bet is he’s up to 14-15 mm
Memphis win. Briggs want. New thread.
"Yesterdays price is not todays price"
Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
Does that speak to the team around Morant/Jones or their impact? What did that team do differently when Jones played. If we value that they were both the epicenter of that win % then Jones is worth 30mil a year.
I don’t know a lot but im smart enough to ask the question and one likely other teams understood as well. Their coach did a great job with them. Tell me what he did and how they adapted and then you begin to undserstand the 22-2 thing. Not to undermind it, just understand. Easy to just assume Jones is that good and just plug and play to knicks and we that good. First, what were his stats in those games vs off the bench? what were the other starters stats with and without him. Tempo. Defense. Rebounding. Quality of opponents? Get the picture? There is a deep dive to the 22-2. We know its a good thing, but what else is under it.
If jah is going to habitually miss 25% of the season they might do very well to sign him for 10-12mil for 5 years with incentives. But again, they might dive deep and think they can bring in a Kris Duhan type of good but not great back up and they could do similar for half the money. Its the system and team, not the player?
I laid out my parameters for Tyus Jones and since I can’t answer those questions I’d just assume leave it to the pro’s. We all know that knicks could use an upgade and media/blogs need content. Knicks/Jones is obvious discussion.
My view remains that unless the guy is someone we can say, "This is our starting PG for the next 7-8 years" then why overpay for a stop-gap FA. We might as well roll with Quickley, Rose, and McBride, and hope that Quickley and McBride continue to improve. Both have potential to get to a starting PG level.
TheGame wrote:My view remains that unless the guy is someone we can say, "This is our starting PG for the next 7-8 years" then why overpay for a stop-gap FA. We might as well roll with Quickley, Rose, and McBride, and hope that Quickley and McBride continue to improve. Both have potential to get to a starting PG level.
Because that stop gap player gets you to the playoffs. Drose tank is about empty, maybe we bring in a stop game, then he gets demoted to back up and IQ starts. Drose gets traded. new player understands this but cool with it. Like Elf was. This if IQ cannot measure as astarter but is given the chance.
But I hear you. Knicks have a lot of decisions to make.
Knicks don't have the cap to sign him, would need to be a S&T. Memphis would need to be interested in someone like Fournier or Rose. Which is possible but not sure their views on those players.
Detroit has money to spend and a need for a PG. Spurs also could be interested if they are serious about moving Murray for other needs.
newyorknewyork wrote:Knicks don't have the cap to sign him, would need to be a S&T. Memphis would need to be interested in someone like Fournier or Rose. Which is possible but not sure their views on those players. Detroit has money to spend and a need for a PG. Spurs also could be interested if they are serious about moving Murray for other needs.
Given how Spurs love euros (tongue in cheek), we trade Rokas, our 12th pick, and Kemba for Murray.
Then need a euro in Texas now that Manu/Parker is long gone and Luka is the EuroKing.
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Knicks don't have the cap to sign him, would need to be a S&T. Memphis would need to be interested in someone like Fournier or Rose. Which is possible but not sure their views on those players. Detroit has money to spend and a need for a PG. Spurs also could be interested if they are serious about moving Murray for other needs.
Given how Spurs love euros (tongue in cheek), we trade Rokas, our 12th pick, and Kemba for Murray.
Then need a euro in Texas now that Manu/Parker is long gone and Luka is the EuroKing.
The move the makes the most sense to me at the moment is a Randle for Brogdon swap. Given the make up of both teams & cap situations.
martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
I'm thinking mid level if it's a multi-year deal. Maybe a little more if he wants to gamble on a one year make good deal. He's in a similar position Elfrid was in after his run in New Orleans.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
I'm thinking mid level if it's a multi-year deal. Maybe a little more if he wants to gamble on a one year make good deal. He's in a similar position Elfrid was in after his run in New Orleans.
Since we seemingly exiled Elf at a low point we did sign him for 10mil the first year with Team option. We nixed it and bought him back for 8mil. He outperformed year 2. Late season demise got him a vet min or near from PHX.
There isn't a lot of money lying around without a sign and trade. For modeling, these guys probably need to be willing to accept a multi year MLE and then use that as leverage to force a sign and trade for a bit more money. Meanwhile Memphis can just resign him with Bird Rights, so they don't have to take back less than good value. Answer is that he ends up back in Memphis at 12-13mm per unless someone is willing to give up draft consideration for him.
Nalod wrote:martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
Does that speak to the team around Morant/Jones or their impact? What did that team do differently when Jones played. If we value that they were both the epicenter of that win % then Jones is worth 30mil a year.
I don’t know a lot but im smart enough to ask the question and one likely other teams understood as well. Their coach did a great job with them. Tell me what he did and how they adapted and then you begin to undserstand the 22-2 thing. Not to undermind it, just understand. Easy to just assume Jones is that good and just plug and play to knicks and we that good. First, what were his stats in those games vs off the bench? what were the other starters stats with and without him. Tempo. Defense. Rebounding. Quality of opponents? Get the picture? There is a deep dive to the 22-2. We know its a good thing, but what else is under it.
If jah is going to habitually miss 25% of the season they might do very well to sign him for 10-12mil for 5 years with incentives. But again, they might dive deep and think they can bring in a Kris Duhan type of good but not great back up and they could do similar for half the money. Its the system and team, not the player?
I laid out my parameters for Tyus Jones and since I can’t answer those questions I’d just assume leave it to the pro’s. We all know that knicks could use an upgade and media/blogs need content. Knicks/Jones is obvious discussion.
The numbers went up without Ja. Team scoring was something like 114. And even the defense improved. While I still believe Knicks have what they need already on the team. Jones would be a good pick up if they were able to land him.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
I'm thinking mid level if it's a multi-year deal. Maybe a little more if he wants to gamble on a one year make good deal. He's in a similar position Elfrid was in after his run in New Orleans.
I'd guess Memphis values him more than the mid level and he can leverage to get somewhere > $10M.
Someone had a good game I take it.
martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
I'm thinking mid level if it's a multi-year deal. Maybe a little more if he wants to gamble on a one year make good deal. He's in a similar position Elfrid was in after his run in New Orleans.
I'd guess Memphis values him more than the mid level and he can leverage to get somewhere > $10M.
It is a weak PG year, unless you consider Delon Wright an impact player. It's possible he could leverage more. But the only team I can see his agent using is the Pistons, and they've been all over the place with rumors. Maybe he can get a little more than the mid-level, but I think $15M is out of the question for a reserve guard. Heck, even $14M might be too high. Things can change, but I think he's looking at about mid-level as the market stands now.
BRIGGS wrote:My bet is he’s up to 14-15 mm
That’s probably a fair price. He’s a quality starter I believe. Basically a poor man’s Brunson in terms of impact. He’s steady, low mistake and well rounded.
TheGame wrote:My view remains that unless the guy is someone we can say, "This is our starting PG for the next 7-8 years" then why overpay for a stop-gap FA. We might as well roll with Quickley, Rose, and McBride, and hope that Quickley and McBride continue to improve. Both have potential to get to a starting PG level.
Yup. Better to probe the draft.
BRIGGS wrote:My bet is he’s up to 14-15 mm
$12-$13M per for min 3 years.
He may choose less if he is promised a bigger role.
My thing is that some fans seem to forget what it is they were missing during the season.
We have said for years that we want a PG that can break down the defense. Don't see Tyus as that.
We want a PG that can be an elite defender. Don't see either as that.
We want a PG with above average height. Not those.
So why do we want to overpay for Tyus and Brunson?
IMHO, we already have a kid that has shown flashes of being able to play at an elite level.
We already have a back up that has shown he can be more than adequate.
Question is, do the Knicks make a commitment to giving IQ the chance?
I just do not see Tyus or Brunson coming in and becoming our elite PG for the next 5 years.
Do not see them as starting PGs on teams that go deep in the playoffs.
I may be wrong but why not take a shot at a kid we already have and who we can control financially?
Not like guys like Tyus and Brunson won't be around in every off season.
Hoping we take BPA in draft and only look for FA upgrades that are reasonable contracts.
That way we can at least keep building tradable assets in case a true difference maker becomes available.
BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:martin wrote:Memphis was like 22-2 or some ungodly record as a starter while Ja was down with injury during regular season. His price was set a long time ago, last night was just icing on cake.
I'm thinking mid level if it's a multi-year deal. Maybe a little more if he wants to gamble on a one year make good deal. He's in a similar position Elfrid was in after his run in New Orleans.
I'd guess Memphis values him more than the mid level and he can leverage to get somewhere > $10M.
It is a weak PG year, unless you consider Delon Wright an impact player. It's possible he could leverage more. But the only team I can see his agent using is the Pistons, and they've been all over the place with rumors. Maybe he can get a little more than the mid-level, but I think $15M is out of the question for a reserve guard. Heck, even $14M might be too high. Things can change, but I think he's looking at about mid-level as the market stands now.
I don't see Jones leaving Memphis for the MLE in order to be a back-up somewhere else and I don't see Memphis in hurry to get rid of him since he's been extremely effective in role this season as a back-up to Ja. He could theoretically be a starter for certain teams - maybe even the Knicks. But that would mean a S&T for most teams and departing with assets in order to get a player likely valued by Memphis. I'm guessing that Jones will stay with Memphis at somewhere above the MLE.
