BigDaddyG wrote:jskinny35 wrote:Every time I read about a possible Randle deal I start typing "of course" in response but this one is a little tough as Hayward makes a lot, is defensively not a PF and would likely come off the bench for us. Plus I really think we need to keep Cam until at least the trade deadline to see what he can offer. I feel like Cam is going to either end up as a Brandon Ingram level player or a Kevin Knox player in about 2 years. I was envisioning Cam playing small ball PF in certain lineups. I would do the deal for Lauri (Cavs) because he is youngish, talented and offers outside shooting from the 4/5 (and we could still mix in Obi in certain situations). Thibs would really have to earn his money to get Lauri to play consistent defense though...
An Obi/Lauri frontcourt is frightening. Hard pass. I'm kinda with you on Cam tho. But the reality is the team doesn't seem to feel the same way. If they're going to have him rust on the bench, I'd just assume they trade him now before his value drops to zero.
Didn't mean they would start or play much together - just that Lauri and Obi could probably play together in select minutes more then Obi and Randle. Lauri is at least tall enough to play spot minutes at C and can space the floor better. Defensively it is frightening and def not an ideal fit. I really want Randle to be traded.
I'd even add one of the '23 picks if needed. I just want Randle gone!
SergioNYK wrote:I'd even add one of the '23 picks if needed. I just want Randle gone!
exhibit A... at least he's honest about his feelings. Needs to be a good basketball move and have yet to see that yet
Any video of Randal working on his three point shot over the summer ? If he improves his outside shot that will free up the offense for the starting unit
Alpha1971 wrote:Any video of Randal working on his three point shot over the summer ? If he improves his outside shot that will free up the offense for the starting unit
everyone should be, needs to improve their 3pt %. and ef%.
Randle's value is probably as low as it will go. May as well see if the time off and having a PG on the team improves his play. We know at his best he can ball out.
Alpha1971 wrote:Any video of Randal working on his three point shot over the summer ? If he improves his outside shot that will free up the offense for the starting unit
No video, means it is not happening.
Honestly.
We all want the guy moved, but maybe he learned something this offseason. This is as low as his value can go. Might make sense to wait a little longer before making a move and hope his value increases.
Knicks would be selling low.. if there is no plan to bring in a comparable or better player, then keep Randle.
TLover wrote:Knicks would be selling low.. if there is no plan to bring in a comparable or better player, then keep Randle.
Agree. No way this is gonna happen.
Hayward makes a shit more and is older.
Hayward is not a true PF.
Obi is NOT a starter.
Hayward can't defend big PFs.
Hayward not as durable.
Randle is still our best player. (Yes better than Brunson)
Hayword would be our 3rd-5th best.
We already have enough draft assets to get a bigger deal done.
So why exactly would Knicks do this?
If Randle can stop bringing the ball up and make quicker decisions, he is a big plus for any team. Think having a NBA level PG can translate into him having his best year by getting him a lot more easy looks.
nykshaknbake wrote:Randle's value is probably as low as it will go. May as well see if the time off and having a PG on the team improves his play. We know at his best he can ball out.
Randle's not a problem if given 26 to 30 minute per game throughout the regular season.
Which the FO and Thibs will not do!
So playing Randle above 30 minute will lead to trading Randle during the season, or next offseason.
Randle's talemts deserve 7 min in first quarter,
6 min in 2nd quarter,
7 min in 3rd quarter,
And 6 to 8 min in the 4th quarter. WHY ???
We can not have Randle slowing-down the offense/defense in the 4th quarter ..
Because Randle played 30 min in the first 3 quarters!
And become tiresome to hit FT, or can't run for two or three minute against opponents speeding up the tempo on offense/defense in the final quarter of the game.
Randle should've been averaging 27 to 30 minutes per game having a decent backup in Obi Toppin who deserve 20 to 24 minute of playing time in his 2nd season in the NBA.
Brunson have been averaging 25 minutes per game the past 4 seasons with Mavs.
Head coach Thibs career at running 6 to 8 Man rotation will probably look for Brunson to play 34 to 40 minutes per game night after night (Even if D.Rose, Quickley, and McBride are all healthy) throughout the regular season.
Kemet wrote:nykshaknbake wrote:Randle's value is probably as low as it will go. May as well see if the time off and having a PG on the team improves his play. We know at his best he can ball out.
Randle's not a problem if given 26 to 30 minute per game throughout the regular season.
Which the FO and Thibs will not do!
So playing Randle above 30 minute will lead to trading Randle during the season, or next offseason.
Randle's talemts deserve 7 min in first quarter,
6 min in 2nd quarter,
7 min in 3rd quarter,
And 6 to 8 min in the 4th quarter. WHY ???
We can not have Randle slowing-down the offense/defense in the 4th quarter ..
Because Randle played 30 min in the first 3 quarters!
And become tiresome to hit FT, or can't run for two or three minute against opponents speeding up the tempo on offense/defense in the final quarter of the game.
Randle should've been averaging 27 to 30 minutes per game having a decent backup in Obi Toppin who deserve 20 to 24 minute of playing time in his 2nd season in the NBA.
Brunson have been averaging 25 minutes per game the past 4 seasons with Mavs.
Head coach Thibs career at running 6 to 8 Man rotation will probably look for Brunson to play 34 to 40 minutes per game night after night (Even if D.Rose, Quickley, and McBride are all healthy) throughout the regular season.
Why would any team sign their best player, who just made the All Star team, got you the highest finish in years, to a long term deal and then play him 25-30 MPG?? Do people actually think a NBA level brain trust actually thinks like this?
You claim Brunson only averaged 25 MPG but leave out that he averages over 30 minutes last year. You also fail to notice that in his SECOND year(Like Obi) he only averages 17 a game. So why complain about how many Obi got and blame it on Thibs?
I mean why not just say you want another number one(best player), you don't like the guy, you want to see if Obi is what you think he is and that Randle is a ball stopper? That would be more honest and somewhat factual.
Although I would debate the ball stopper part. As every teams BEST player is theoretically a ball stopper since their usage rate is usually the highest on their team.
HofstraBBall wrote:Kemet wrote:nykshaknbake wrote:Randle's value is probably as low as it will go. May as well see if the time off and having a PG on the team improves his play. We know at his best he can ball out.
Randle's not a problem if given 26 to 30 minute per game throughout the regular season.
Which the FO and Thibs will not do!
So playing Randle above 30 minute will lead to trading Randle during the season, or next offseason.
Randle's talemts deserve 7 min in first quarter,
6 min in 2nd quarter,
7 min in 3rd quarter,
And 6 to 8 min in the 4th quarter. WHY ???
We can not have Randle slowing-down the offense/defense in the 4th quarter ..
Because Randle played 30 min in the first 3 quarters!
And become tiresome to hit FT, or can't run for two or three minute against opponents speeding up the tempo on offense/defense in the final quarter of the game.
Randle should've been averaging 27 to 30 minutes per game having a decent backup in Obi Toppin who deserve 20 to 24 minute of playing time in his 2nd season in the NBA.
Brunson have been averaging 25 minutes per game the past 4 seasons with Mavs.
Head coach Thibs career at running 6 to 8 Man rotation will probably look for Brunson to play 34 to 40 minutes per game night after night (Even if D.Rose, Quickley, and McBride are all healthy) throughout the regular season.
Why would any team sign their best player, who just made the All Star team, got you the highest finish in years, to a long term deal and then play him 25-30 MPG?? Do people actually think a NBA level brain trust actually thinks like this?
You claim Brunson only averaged 25 MPG but leave out that he averages over 30 minutes last year. You also fail to notice that in his SECOND year(Like Obi) he only averages 17 a game. So why complain about how many Obi got and blame it on Thibs?
I mean why not just say you want another number one(best player), you don't like the guy, you want to see if Obi is what you think he is and that Randle is a ball stopper? That would be more honest and somewhat factual.
Although I would debate the ball stopper part. As every teams BEST player is theoretically a ball stopper since their usage rate is usually the highest on their team.
Randle is not the best player on the Knicks team!
The Knicks had 2 successful seasons in the past decade, and both successes came from the veteran PG team-leadership playing the majority of minutes in the 4th quarter as the closer .. Jason Kidd, then D.Rose.
Randle did perform like an all-star during a COVID EMPTY stadium regular season, after receiving a 7 or 8 month offseason. When fans were allowed in the stadium to watch the game during postseason, Randle allstar performance became MIA !!!
Which may become Randle's only regular season as a all-star in his career.
Plus Randle is a POOR PF who need a SF/PF type of player (Bullock) in the lineup to cover-up for the Knicks missing PF position Randle should be maintaining. Randle dont pick or screen for teammates, Randle's not shot blocker threat to any Knicks opponents, plus Randle's clueless on a fast break.
Brunson received 30 minutes last season, because Doncic only played 65 games, and Tim Hardaway Jr. only played 42 games.
Was Brunson performance ever close or arguable for an all-star ballot in the past 4 seasons? NO!
Does owner Cuban believe Brunson's worth $104M for 4 years? NO!
Kemet wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Kemet wrote:nykshaknbake wrote:Randle's value is probably as low as it will go. May as well see if the time off and having a PG on the team improves his play. We know at his best he can ball out.
Randle's not a problem if given 26 to 30 minute per game throughout the regular season.
Which the FO and Thibs will not do!
So playing Randle above 30 minute will lead to trading Randle during the season, or next offseason.
Randle's talemts deserve 7 min in first quarter,
6 min in 2nd quarter,
7 min in 3rd quarter,
And 6 to 8 min in the 4th quarter. WHY ???
We can not have Randle slowing-down the offense/defense in the 4th quarter ..
Because Randle played 30 min in the first 3 quarters!
And become tiresome to hit FT, or can't run for two or three minute against opponents speeding up the tempo on offense/defense in the final quarter of the game.
Randle should've been averaging 27 to 30 minutes per game having a decent backup in Obi Toppin who deserve 20 to 24 minute of playing time in his 2nd season in the NBA.
Brunson have been averaging 25 minutes per game the past 4 seasons with Mavs.
Head coach Thibs career at running 6 to 8 Man rotation will probably look for Brunson to play 34 to 40 minutes per game night after night (Even if D.Rose, Quickley, and McBride are all healthy) throughout the regular season.
Why would any team sign their best player, who just made the All Star team, got you the highest finish in years, to a long term deal and then play him 25-30 MPG?? Do people actually think a NBA level brain trust actually thinks like this?
You claim Brunson only averaged 25 MPG but leave out that he averages over 30 minutes last year. You also fail to notice that in his SECOND year(Like Obi) he only averages 17 a game. So why complain about how many Obi got and blame it on Thibs?
I mean why not just say you want another number one(best player), you don't like the guy, you want to see if Obi is what you think he is and that Randle is a ball stopper? That would be more honest and somewhat factual.
Although I would debate the ball stopper part. As every teams BEST player is theoretically a ball stopper since their usage rate is usually the highest on their team.
Randle is not the best player on the Knicks team!
The Knicks had 2 successful seasons in the past decade, and both successes came from the veteran PG team-leadership playing the majority of minutes in the 4th quarter as the closer .. Jason Kidd, then D.Rose.
Randle did perform like an all-star during a COVID EMPTY stadium regular season, after receiving a 7 or 8 month offseason. When fans were allowed in the stadium to watch the game during postseason, Randle allstar performance became MIA !!!
Which may become Randle's only regular season as a all-star in his career.
Plus Randle is a POOR PF who need a SF/PF type of player (Bullock) in the lineup to cover-up for the Knicks missing PF position Randle should be maintaining. Randle dont pick or screen for teammates, Randle's not shot blocker threat to any Knicks opponents, plus Randle's clueless on a fast break.
Brunson received 30 minutes last season, because Doncic only played 65 games, and Tim Hardaway Jr. only played 42 games.
Was Brunson performance ever close or arguable for an all-star ballot in the past 4 seasons? NO!
Does owner Cuban believe Brunson's worth $104M for 4 years? NO!
You can say all you want that Randle is not the BEST player on the team but the truth, stats, production, commitment by front office and Thibs game plans say otherwise.
There was no COVID buble when Randle had a very strong year in NO. No COVID when he averaged double doubles in several years. Including almost doing so in his "horrible" year last year.
Again, you can say I don't like the guy but facts/stats matter if you are going to try to make your opinion factual.
So who is a better player? Did the vets you speak of make the All Star team? Did they have astounding years statistically? Are you saying that other teams best players accomplish solid production without any help from their teammates?
Are you also saying we should not have signed Brunson?
Nalod wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Any video of Randal working on his three point shot over the summer ? If he improves his outside shot that will free up the offense for the starting unit
No video, means it is not happening.
Lol, Randall has released vids with him working out and working in the paint before. Be nice to see himself playing off ball showing he understands he has to not handle the ball so much and at in the flow of the offense. That would signal he gets it
TPercy wrote:smackeddog wrote:fishmike wrote:no way. Unpopular opinion but Randle is better and younger and worth much more to us fixed than dumped. There's warm and fuzzy emos with Obi and yucky ones with Randle and I get it. That will change in like 10 games if we 8-2 with Randle balling and Knicks playing D like they did 2 years ago. I think its more likely we see something like that than dont
It's not about talent, for me it's about chemistry- RJ basically came out and cricked Randle for not seeming to want the young players to do well (remember that moment about the importance of celebrating team mates success). Then there's the sulking. He doesn't seem to like the fans or the press. Just seems like a cloud hanging over the franchise
when was this?
Just after RJ started taking over the leadership role of the team after the all star break- he made some comment about how important it is to celebrate the success of team mates or something (something about what makes a good team being hard work, enjoying the success of your teammates etc)- it came right after those observations about Randle looking p'd off at Obi getting the chants at MSG, and when he stormed off the court even though we won a game on a last second shot or something.
Randle and Cam were sat with the Knicks players and front office to watch the first summer league, so looks like they aren't going anywhere. Glad about Cam, because we really don't have any other player with his possible skill set, and that's what we desperately need. Also nice to see him show the support- thought he'd be sulking at the trade rumors/lack of playing time since the moment he arrived.
Lets be real, the true genius of team growth is what happens to things you can’t see.
we fret about the draft pick we sent to ATL for cam, but view him in hindsight. At 22 there lies risk with him, but he is far from a finished piece.
Imagine a works were this kid kicks ass. Can’t? Thats a shame. I can. Not a prediction but as a fan.
Ihart
IQ/Drose
Grimes
Cam
Obi
How much fun will this be to behold?
Maybe i does not mount to anything but if it does they will push the first unit. My further hope is that unit kicks ass also and in time you now have culture were we improve and produce trade chips moving forward. That is how you win long term and culture is built.
Can’t see it? Don’t have to. Just need to imagine/hope for it. More fun than being bitter beer knick fan……………
So lets hope Cam is feeling part of something and this is where players want to be. Not starphuchs whose prime is behind, but players who come to get better. Say like Miami but our own version!
