Fishy what you fail to realize is Vandunceism has ran its course, he's a glorified assistant for god sakes why is that hard to understand.
He wanted Francis and Mobley out and McGrady in who's call was that?
Jeff's is a stubborn little man who thinks he's smarter than guys who play the game .
You could certainly say he's not doing well with this group of players, but you cant argue with his past results. It wasnt a pretty style of ball to watch, that much is sure, but he didnt put brakes on guys like you make it out. He played an uptempo game when he had the Childs, Camby, Sprewell unit in the game. It was so uptempo people were saying the Knicks were better off w/o Ewing.
Fishy, that wasn't by VG design, a few injuries made those guys get a chance to run cmon man that is well documented. VG would have lost his job if Allan Houston didn't make the lucky jump shot.
why is that a lucky shot? Considering how they played after it sure seemed like they belonged there. Sweeping Atl and JVG totally outcoached Larry Bird in the Pacers series.. that was also well documented. Funny how when a team doesnt play well its the coaches fault but when they do its because of a lucky shot.
JVG was a good coach with good teams for us. Nothing more, nothing less. When the team stunk he quit.
... to say VG is limited as far as coaching an offense is an understatement of great magnitude. What VG is and was, is an above average defensive coach.
If JVG gets sacked, I'd have absolutely no problems seeing him return here. Not that he would want to come to a team that is so fundamentally flawed defensively.
Come back here?? You've got to be kidding!!
He knows what defense is. We don't. Seems like a good fit. But it would probably have to be as an assistant, which I'm sure he'll refuse.
aside from the fact that he'd be good as a "defensive coordinator", I would never forgive him for quitting on the team... even if I thought he was a good coach, which I don't.
it wasnt fair to the team but I would have quit on Layden also
Fish, Playa will tell you, NOBODY hated Layden more than me. That being said, in my opinion, it sends a bad message taking someone back who left us like he did.
Yes I must say pike disliked Layden with a passion.
Tonight Dallas should undress Gundy and his comic strip offensive effort. Sura should help at the pg position ,but Gundy system will be exposed as a fraud all yr long.
Posted by fishmike:
it wasnt fair to the team but I would have quit on Layden also
Thats a loser mentality. There is NO way I would ever take him back- maybe as a defensive coordinator.He does know how to teach defense. He did everything he could not to play Camby back when .He only had to when injuries forced it. I actually like T-Mac , just not with VG. T-mac would be great with these Knicks. Just what they need. put him at small foward. But VG screwed this organization when he quit. We gave him his shot and when the going gets tough VG gets going. good riddance.
1)The Rockets should have had bad deja vu about such a move from the past, Sam Cassell and Robert Horry trade.
2) The team was much better with Francis and Mobley -- check the numbers.
3) Look at Orlando's record.
Slow ball has played out and yao is not as strong with the presence of a Cato gone. Gundy F-
Houston needs a gunner in the back field to play with Yao and Tracy. I do believe that I have the right trade for them. Portland has been trying to get rid of Stoudamire forever, Houston could step in and take him away from them. He is a scorrer and teams wouldn't be able to double Tracy or Yao. Why not put in a package for Stoudamire???
Now do you think Jeff could control DAMON STOUDEMIRE?? If not he doesn't want him.
I dont want JVG for this team anyway, but how is it a loser mentality?
Because of Layden's moves as GM, JVG was not in a position to succeed as a coach. I'm sorry but he did the right thing. Its not fair to the players or fans but blame Layden. You or anyone else would do the same thing now. Heck, I'm going through it at work right now. I dont have the resources I need to do my job. Now I could just keep going through the motions and eventually get fired because I'm not performing, or I can look for a better situation. It may effect some of the people I work with but thats life man.
As for adapting when JVG had some uptemp athletic players he did pretty good with them. He stopped producing for the Knicks when the talent of the roster went to crap.
As for Camby JVG had him in the rotation. When Camby asked out of a game because he was winded and out of shape JVG let him sit. Its also worth mentioning that under JVG Camby went from a below average rebounder to one of the best in the NBA.
Posted by fishmike:
As for Camby JVG had him in the rotation. When Camby asked out of a game because he was winded and out of shape JVG let him sit. Its also worth mentioning that under JVG Camby went from a below average rebounder to one of the best in the NBA.
Fish stop it! Jeff never liked camby because he thought he was to much of a wuss and often compared him to CHARLES OAKLEY in half court game, when in all reality camb was a gazelle waiting to get loose. Camby would be a good rebounder where ever he went, he just needed time on the court.
Before Camby emerged in playoff series, he was rotting on the bench. He only got off the bench because of an injury to another player (I forget whom). I almost puked when MSG posed the question, "Who is the best Knicks coach ever?" ... and saw Van Gundy's name on the same page as Red Holtzman's.
[Edited by - Pike on 12/03/2004 15:36:17]
Posted by playa2:
Posted by fishmike:
As for Camby JVG had him in the rotation. When Camby asked out of a game because he was winded and out of shape JVG let him sit. Its also worth mentioning that under JVG Camby went from a below average rebounder to one of the best in the NBA.
Fish stop it! Jeff never liked camby because he thought he was to much of a wuss and often compared him to CHARLES OAKLEY in half court game, when in all reality camb was a gazelle waiting to get loose. Camby would be a good rebounder where ever he went, he just needed time on the court.
You can try to figure out if Camby would have played for JVG if it wasn't for injuries. But I think it is a valid point that Camby played better for JVG then anyone else. The Indiana playoff series is the Highlight of Cambys career - so one way or another JVG did something right. Camby has been in the league a long time and played for a lot of coaches. The coach that he played the BEST for was JVG.
