Knicks · Poll time........Donovan or not? (page 4)

SergioNYK wrote:I'd walk away tbh. Ainge is being such a prick. Hold off to our picks and assets until the next stay comes along - Booker? Beal? - and tell Ainge to go to hell.

100%! Screw Ainge, just because Minny got fleeced doesn’t mean we have to do the same thing. Trading for Mitchell now doesn’t win us a championship so why be impatient? Let our youths play and see what we got.

Mitchell by himself will still get the Jazz 35+ wins, and a mediocre draft position. I think all the GM’s need to come together and stop trading with Utah altogether or lowball Ainge from now on and send a message to that prick Ainge. How does he get away with this sh*t?

6 picks and youth for a guy that scores only with no defense and is undersized? Mitchell is a tier 2 player at BEST.

Stevo718 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:I'd walk away tbh. Ainge is being such a prick. Hold off to our picks and assets until the next stay comes along - Booker? Beal? - and tell Ainge to go to hell.

100%! Screw Ainge, just because Minny got fleeced doesn’t mean we have to do the same thing. Trading for Mitchell now doesn’t win us a championship so why be impatient? Let our youths play and see what we got.

Mitchell by himself will still get the Jazz 35+ wins, and a mediocre draft position. I think all the GM’s need to come together and stop trading with Utah altogether or lowball Ainge from now on and send a message to that prick Ainge. How does he get away with this sh*t?

6 picks and youth for a guy that scores only with no defense and is undersized? Mitchell is a tier 2 player at BEST.

I’m not someone who normally listens to anything a cable talking head says but I’m sorry Jalen Rose sold me on it. He personally knows Mitchell says he is desperate to come here and he also says Thibs will make it work because of his history giving point guards the ball in their hands. Rose is the obvious example. DJ Augustin played his best basketball with Thibs. Thibs even made Nate Robinson look functional for half a season

smackeddog wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I am not so sure anymore. Mitchell's d is helped by his absurd 6'10 wingspan and he is top 10 in steals. We could and should see an improvement on that end playing for Thibs.With the new rule on fast break fouls that could prove to be immensely valuable. It could catapult our offense. But we would have to fully commit to a run and gun style. It's actually not so far fetched as we have already upped our pace last season

Mitchell needs the ball in his hands. I don’t see him playing well off ball. We are going to need 3 basketballs when Mitch, Randle and Brunson are all on the court

I don't really think this as a problem. 2 guards that can create and play off the ball. I mean I hated the Bad Boys but Popcorn Man and Dumars were awesome. I don't think Donovan will be exposed in defense playing the 2 either. Dude is the biggest 6'1" basketball player I have ever seen. I mean he plays big and the 6'10" wingspan is absurd. The only question to me would RJ be able to handle guarding the 3 spot in a consistent basis. Then again not a lot of post guys anymore so I don't think that will be a problem either.

To me, as long as we don't give a ton for Donovan then I see this as a win.

But Ainge wants the farm plus

Mitchell’s game is driving to the basket and stopping and popping. That would be fine but we now have Brunson. We need catch and shoot 3 and D guys who can hit at a high percentage

Katz was saying on the KFS podcast that he'd asked around and most front offices he asked about Ainge's negotiating style in trades said the same thing- essentially he doesn't negotiate, he just sets out his high price and leaves it to them to meet it. Clashing with Roses front office style of essentially having a bottom line he doesn't cross, leaves me thinking this trade just isn't going to happen and never was as close as the media made out. Probably just ends up in a few weeks as the standard, patented media cycle of:

Player x is heading to the Knicks! -----> Fans start to believe it based on all the coverage-----> Player x doesn't come to the Knicks ------> LOL! Knicks fans thought they were going to get player x! What idiots!"

They fooled me for a few days this time though, I'll admit

If Ainge takes back Randle while giving us Mitchell he can have 6x first round picks

TheGame wrote:Man, I don’t care who ends up on this team. Just give me some Knicks basketball. These next three months will suck. Go Knicks with Mitchell, Go Knicks without Mitchell, just F-in-K GO Knicks!!! Getting hyped already.

I hear ya bro. This Knicks team next season gonna be fun to watch whether this trade happens or not

After some thought I think we should trade for Spider. I like the nickname. I am kind of big on that. We need to bring DM here and keep Grimes. That would my ultimate goal here.

scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Philc1 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

ramtour420 wrote:I am not so sure anymore. Mitchell's d is helped by his absurd 6'10 wingspan and he is top 10 in steals. We could and should see an improvement on that end playing for Thibs.With the new rule on fast break fouls that could prove to be immensely valuable. It could catapult our offense. But we would have to fully commit to a run and gun style. It's actually not so far fetched as we have already upped our pace last season

Mitchell needs the ball in his hands. I don’t see him playing well off ball. We are going to need 3 basketballs when Mitch, Randle and Brunson are all on the court

I don't really think this as a problem. 2 guards that can create and play off the ball. I mean I hated the Bad Boys but Popcorn Man and Dumars were awesome. I don't think Donovan will be exposed in defense playing the 2 either. Dude is the biggest 6'1" basketball player I have ever seen. I mean he plays big and the 6'10" wingspan is absurd. The only question to me would RJ be able to handle guarding the 3 spot in a consistent basis. Then again not a lot of post guys anymore so I don't think that will be a problem either.

To me, as long as we don't give a ton for Donovan then I see this as a win.

But Ainge wants the farm plus

Mitchell’s game is driving to the basket and stopping and popping. That would be fine but we now have Brunson. We need catch and shoot 3 and D guys who can hit at a high percentage

Katz was saying on the KFS podcast that he'd asked around and most front offices he asked about Ainge's negotiating style in trades said the same thing- essentially he doesn't negotiate, he just sets out his high price and leaves it to them to meet it. Clashing with Roses front office style of essentially having a bottom line he doesn't cross, leaves me thinking this trade just isn't going to happen and never was as close as the media made out. Probably just ends up in a few weeks as the standard, patented media cycle of:

Player x is heading to the Knicks! -----> Fans start to believe it based on all the coverage-----> Player x doesn't come to the Knicks ------> LOL! Knicks fans thought they were going to get player x! What idiots!"

They fooled me for a few days this time though, I'll admit

If Ainge takes back Randle while giving us Mitchell he can have 6x first round picks

Actually if Ainge wants to tank, Randle should be worth picks coming to us!

1. Too expensive
2. Negative defender
3. Too small to put next to Brunson at PG and RJ at SF. That's 3 undersized positions and a potential defensive nightmare.
4. All of Brunson, RJ, and Mitchell want the ball and that doesn't even count Randle.

Good player, bad fit.

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

ItalianStallion wrote:1. Too expensive
2. Negative defender
3. Too small to put next to Brunson at PG and RJ at SF. That's 3 undersized positions and a potential defensive nightmare.
4. All of Brunson, RJ, and Mitchell want the ball and that doesn't even count Randle.

Good player, bad fit.

Exactly! If Donovan was on the trade market before they went and got Brunson I think this trade is done. The effort and assets they used to make cap space could have been used to contribute to acquiring Donovan. It’s not the Knicks fault this trade doesn’t happen, it’s Ainge who , not only is asking too much, he put Donovan on the trade market at the worst time after most of this year’s FA were signed.

I honestly think this is all a ruse to end up with the Celtics/Jazz doing a Jaylen Brown/Donovan Mitchell swap.

Leon should do this. Play the first 20 games and see how the team looks and how Grimes looks. If we are sucking, then trade for Mitchell. If another team beats us to him, so be it, but you cannot trade 4-5 picks and young players haphazardly. That is the type of trade that requires some reflection. We can offer Ainge a deal of Fournier, either IQ or Toppin, Reddish, and 4 first round picks. Leave that on the table and I doubt Ainge gets any better offers. If after 20 games we suck, then you can add another 1st rounder or pick swaps to sweeten the deal or swap in Grimes. But I would not bid against ourselves until it is clear this team is not meeting expectations. As of right now, I still believe Grimes and Toppin can both become high level starters in this league, and we don't yet know how having a competent PG in Brunson will impact winning. We committed to Brunson long-term, so keeping a SG that can play defense, like Grimes, may be more important than getting a Mitchell if the team shows that it can score with the current roster.

wargames wrote:

ItalianStallion wrote:1. Too expensive
2. Negative defender
3. Too small to put next to Brunson at PG and RJ at SF. That's 3 undersized positions and a potential defensive nightmare.
4. All of Brunson, RJ, and Mitchell want the ball and that doesn't even count Randle.

Good player, bad fit.

Exactly! If Donovan was on the trade market before they went and got Brunson I think this trade is done. The effort and assets they used to make cap space could have been used to contribute to acquiring Donovan. It’s not the Knicks fault this trade doesn’t happen, it’s Ainge who , not only is asking too much, he put Donovan on the trade market at the worst time after most of this year’s FA were signed.

I honestly think this is all a ruse to end up with the Celtics/Jazz doing a Jaylen Brown/Donovan Mitchell swap.

I wonder how Jaylon brown feels. He gets the Celtics to the nba finals and then they turn around try to offer him and picks for a 33 year old KD who takes the entire regular season off and eventually he’s going to be trade fodder for Mitchell

KnickDanger wrote:

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

By “certain types of fans” I guess you mean James Dolan circa 2000-2008?

Let me add to my post that in no way am I caving into outrageous demands from ainge. If the deal is fair I’m all in. If ainge wants the sun, moon and stars……no deal.

I get showing caution. Within reason.

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

By “certain types of fans” I guess you mean James Dolan circa 2000-2008?

Oh yeah that's exactly what I meant. Getting in the time machine and focusing strictly on James Dolan in that era. Not the ADHD I want a shiny toy fans of today and the "do whatever it takes to get Westbrook" media gasbags that lead them by the nose.

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

By “certain types of fans” I guess you mean James Dolan circa 2000-2008?

Oh yeah that's exactly what I meant. Getting in the time machine and focusing strictly on James Dolan in that era. Not the ADHD I want a shiny toy fans of today and the "do whatever it takes to get Westbrook" media gasbags that lead them by the nose.

Westbrook is our only way of getting rid of Randle. Problem is lakers know Randle

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

By “certain types of fans” I guess you mean James Dolan circa 2000-2008?

Oh yeah that's exactly what I meant. Getting in the time machine and focusing strictly on James Dolan in that era. Not the ADHD I want a shiny toy fans of today and the "do whatever it takes to get Westbrook" media gasbags that lead them by the nose.

Westbrook is our only way of getting rid of Randle. Problem is lakers know Randle

Thats what makes you so special as a fan on the uk. Your not lead by media gasbags, you lead yourself.

Here is a preview of next season. If Randle is still here and not performing you’ll get like no cred for it no matter what you promote. Reason is, we are not here for cred. We want the team to succeed.
If the team is well in the playoff hunt and he performs as a team asset you’ll be the leading face of the Knick fan who is a band wagon half glass empty type.

Others give reasons. You just blab.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

By “certain types of fans” I guess you mean James Dolan circa 2000-2008?

Oh yeah that's exactly what I meant. Getting in the time machine and focusing strictly on James Dolan in that era. Not the ADHD I want a shiny toy fans of today and the "do whatever it takes to get Westbrook" media gasbags that lead them by the nose.

Westbrook is our only way of getting rid of Randle. Problem is lakers know Randle

Thats what makes you so special as a fan on the uk. Your not lead by media gasbags, you lead yourself.

Here is a preview of next season. If Randle is still here and not performing you’ll get like no cred for it no matter what you promote. Reason is, we are not here for cred. We want the team to succeed.
If the team is well in the playoff hunt and he performs as a team asset you’ll be the leading face of the Knick fan who is a band wagon half glass empty type.

Others give reasons. You just blab.

Phil's logic too often flows into the objective mode. He is not just blabbing more times than not, imho

ramtour420 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

doomed wrote:scarred and poisoned knicks fans have been staring at 35 win talent bases for the last 100 years. A guy wants to be here but nope, we're too scared to trade for the best player this team would possess since Melo. Why? because Melo didn't win 60 games here year after year, for a decade. All because the Knicks were idiotic in how they staged things AFTER the Melo trade.... so it will happen again right?

Never mind that we aren't getting a better player than Mitchell anytime soon, if EVER. Nope, lets wait and sit on a bunch of ok players.

Enjoy purgatory.

Or we could enjoy NOT doing the same old crap that put us in purgatory. You know, like trading picks and young players for that sugar rush to appease, uh, certain types of fans. And then get to witness young players develop while accumulating more assets instead of squandering them for more mediocrity. Yeah, I know, no fun in that.

By “certain types of fans” I guess you mean James Dolan circa 2000-2008?

Oh yeah that's exactly what I meant. Getting in the time machine and focusing strictly on James Dolan in that era. Not the ADHD I want a shiny toy fans of today and the "do whatever it takes to get Westbrook" media gasbags that lead them by the nose.

Westbrook is our only way of getting rid of Randle. Problem is lakers know Randle

Thats what makes you so special as a fan on the uk. Your not lead by media gasbags, you lead yourself.

Here is a preview of next season. If Randle is still here and not performing you’ll get like no cred for it no matter what you promote. Reason is, we are not here for cred. We want the team to succeed.
If the team is well in the playoff hunt and he performs as a team asset you’ll be the leading face of the Knick fan who is a band wagon half glass empty type.

Others give reasons. You just blab.

Phil's logic too often flows into the objective mode. He is not just blabbing more times than not, imho

Perhaps your right. Contridictions do exist so the blabbing is perhaps over stated. There is drivel, Bolderdash and ballyhoo as well. To be fair, and IM not, I do respond when he is on cue when so.