Knicks · Our abundance of draft capital (page 1)
MaddogSharp wrote:After the whole Mitchell thing I’ve seen some people say that we need to use those draft picks we have for a trade right now. However I don’t see it that way. I mean if the right player comes along during the season or after the season then that’s fine but I’m also happy with keeping the picks and keep building through the draft too. Plus we could always use some of those picks to move up in the draft if we target a certain player we feel can be a difference maker. Interested to hear your thoughts on what you would like to do with our extra picks!
so its ok to spend the pick currency as long as your in agreement. A 26 year old with 3 years on deal, a 3 3x Allstar and arguably a top 20-25 player among 450 in the NBA.
"we'll get the next one". Folks, I realize Ainge was like Saddam Hussain for a few weeks but its a tenuous balance to go the extra pick or not. Whose to say a Brunson/DM backcourt don't work or the team around them does, and whose to say both don't go in a trade at some point? That's my reasoning for getting DM but as said before glad Leon drew the line for reasons stated previously.
Say our team is so good Brunson comes off the bench in 3 years? My imagination is limited to that path but not the big picture!
WE never really talked about if DM had another gear to go and what time of team can make him a All NBA players. Instead its mostly that DM is good, but not a super duper star. That's like what, 5-7 players currently who are??
Would any of our players benefited (on paper) to his inclusion or we just have pigeon holed the Youtube highlight mindset we have that each players is ISO and cannot elevate as a team?
Nalod wrote:MaddogSharp wrote:After the whole Mitchell thing I’ve seen some people say that we need to use those draft picks we have for a trade right now. However I don’t see it that way. I mean if the right player comes along during the season or after the season then that’s fine but I’m also happy with keeping the picks and keep building through the draft too. Plus we could always use some of those picks to move up in the draft if we target a certain player we feel can be a difference maker. Interested to hear your thoughts on what you would like to do with our extra picks!so its ok to spend the pick currency as long as your in agreement. A 26 year old with 3 years on deal, a 3 3x Allstar and arguably a top 20-25 player among 450 in the NBA.
"we'll get the next one". Folks, I realize Ainge was like Saddam Hussain for a few weeks but its a tenuous balance to go the extra pick or not. Whose to say a Brunson/DM backcourt don't work or the team around them does, and whose to say both don't go in a trade at some point? That's my reasoning for getting DM but as said before glad Leon drew the line for reasons stated previously.
Say our team is so good Brunson comes off the bench in 3 years? My imagination is limited to that path but not the big picture!
WE never really talked about if DM had another gear to go and what time of team can make him a All NBA players. Instead its mostly that DM is good, but not a super duper star. That's like what, 5-7 players currently who are??
Would any of our players benefited (on paper) to his inclusion or we just have pigeon holed the Youtube highlight mindset we have that each players is ISO and cannot elevate as a team?
The problem is the team still has a bunch of holes and question marks. That extra pick means a lot more to a team like the Knicks then it does to a team like the Cavs whose roster is a lot more well rounded. As for whether or not DM has the ability to reach superstardom, I'd say no. Can he be a high level offensive engine? I'd say he already is.
BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:MaddogSharp wrote:After the whole Mitchell thing I’ve seen some people say that we need to use those draft picks we have for a trade right now. However I don’t see it that way. I mean if the right player comes along during the season or after the season then that’s fine but I’m also happy with keeping the picks and keep building through the draft too. Plus we could always use some of those picks to move up in the draft if we target a certain player we feel can be a difference maker. Interested to hear your thoughts on what you would like to do with our extra picks!so its ok to spend the pick currency as long as your in agreement. A 26 year old with 3 years on deal, a 3 3x Allstar and arguably a top 20-25 player among 450 in the NBA.
"we'll get the next one". Folks, I realize Ainge was like Saddam Hussain for a few weeks but its a tenuous balance to go the extra pick or not. Whose to say a Brunson/DM backcourt don't work or the team around them does, and whose to say both don't go in a trade at some point? That's my reasoning for getting DM but as said before glad Leon drew the line for reasons stated previously.
Say our team is so good Brunson comes off the bench in 3 years? My imagination is limited to that path but not the big picture!
WE never really talked about if DM had another gear to go and what time of team can make him a All NBA players. Instead its mostly that DM is good, but not a super duper star. That's like what, 5-7 players currently who are??
Would any of our players benefited (on paper) to his inclusion or we just have pigeon holed the Youtube highlight mindset we have that each players is ISO and cannot elevate as a team?
The problem is the team still has a bunch of holes and question marks. That extra pick means a lot more to a team like the Knicks then it does to a team like the Cavs whose roster is a lot more well rounded. As for whether or not DM has the ability to reach superstardom, I'd say no. Can he be a high level offensive engine? I'd say he already is.
I don’t think the Cavs are well rounded… at least not when it will matter. Their picks don’t start converting until around 2024 and don’t finish being either sent or swapped with the Jazz until 2029. Ainge got exactly what he wanted from the Cavs. Picks so far from now no one can predict how good or bad they will be.
It’s funny how so many people are ready to jump on the Knicks they don’t realize Ainge basically got what he wanted from the Cavs and put their future in a tenuous position. For example Mitchell’s current deal ends by the second year the picks start to convert. That means if he leaves as a UFA the Cavs will have to still give the Jazz 4 seasons of unprotected draft picks or pick swaps. I am not saying that is likely to happen but Ainge built that risk into this trade and I don’t think the Knicks were down for that. Every scenario we heard the Knicks send out to Ainge was based on limiting long term risk and giving them a chance to build a winner eventually.
Nalod wrote:. To me he wasn’t worth what Ainge was demanding from us. Forget about the picks it’s obvious that RJ, Grines, and probably IQ all had to be included which is insane. Very good scorer but plays no defense. I haven’t seen that he could elevate a team as the main guyMaddogSharp wrote:After the whole Mitchell thing I’ve seen some people say that we need to use those draft picks we have for a trade right now. However I don’t see it that way. I mean if the right player comes along during the season or after the season then that’s fine but I’m also happy with keeping the picks and keep building through the draft too. Plus we could always use some of those picks to move up in the draft if we target a certain player we feel can be a difference maker. Interested to hear your thoughts on what you would like to do with our extra picks!so its ok to spend the pick currency as long as your in agreement. A 26 year old with 3 years on deal, a 3 3x Allstar and arguably a top 20-25 player among 450 in the NBA.
"we'll get the next one". Folks, I realize Ainge was like Saddam Hussain for a few weeks but its a tenuous balance to go the extra pick or not. Whose to say a Brunson/DM backcourt don't work or the team around them does, and whose to say both don't go in a trade at some point? That's my reasoning for getting DM but as said before glad Leon drew the line for reasons stated previously.
Say our team is so good Brunson comes off the bench in 3 years? My imagination is limited to that path but not the big picture!
WE never really talked about if DM had another gear to go and what time of team can make him a All NBA players. Instead its mostly that DM is good, but not a super duper star. That's like what, 5-7 players currently who are??
Would any of our players benefited (on paper) to his inclusion or we just have pigeon holed the Youtube highlight mindset we have that each players is ISO and cannot elevate as a team?
wargames wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:MaddogSharp wrote:After the whole Mitchell thing I’ve seen some people say that we need to use those draft picks we have for a trade right now. However I don’t see it that way. I mean if the right player comes along during the season or after the season then that’s fine but I’m also happy with keeping the picks and keep building through the draft too. Plus we could always use some of those picks to move up in the draft if we target a certain player we feel can be a difference maker. Interested to hear your thoughts on what you would like to do with our extra picks!so its ok to spend the pick currency as long as your in agreement. A 26 year old with 3 years on deal, a 3 3x Allstar and arguably a top 20-25 player among 450 in the NBA.
"we'll get the next one". Folks, I realize Ainge was like Saddam Hussain for a few weeks but its a tenuous balance to go the extra pick or not. Whose to say a Brunson/DM backcourt don't work or the team around them does, and whose to say both don't go in a trade at some point? That's my reasoning for getting DM but as said before glad Leon drew the line for reasons stated previously.
Say our team is so good Brunson comes off the bench in 3 years? My imagination is limited to that path but not the big picture!
WE never really talked about if DM had another gear to go and what time of team can make him a All NBA players. Instead its mostly that DM is good, but not a super duper star. That's like what, 5-7 players currently who are??
Would any of our players benefited (on paper) to his inclusion or we just have pigeon holed the Youtube highlight mindset we have that each players is ISO and cannot elevate as a team?
The problem is the team still has a bunch of holes and question marks. That extra pick means a lot more to a team like the Knicks then it does to a team like the Cavs whose roster is a lot more well rounded. As for whether or not DM has the ability to reach superstardom, I'd say no. Can he be a high level offensive engine? I'd say he already is.I don’t think the Cavs are well rounded… at least not when it will matter. Their picks don’t start converting until around 2024 and don’t finish being either sent or swapped with the Jazz until 2029. Ainge got exactly what he wanted from the Cavs. Picks so far from now no one can predict how good or bad they will be.
It’s funny how so many people are ready to jump on the Knicks they don’t realize Ainge basically got what he wanted from the Cavs and put their future in a tenuous position. For example Mitchell’s current deal ends by the second year the picks start to convert. That means if he leaves as a UFA the Cavs will have to still give the Jazz 4 seasons of unprotected draft picks or pick swaps. I am not saying that is likely to happen but Ainge built that risk into this trade and I don’t think the Knicks were down for that. Every scenario we heard the Knicks send out to Ainge was based on limiting long term risk and giving them a chance to build a winner eventually.
It's more well-rounded than the Knicks roster. Let's say the Knicks did obtain Mitchell and the Cavs stood pat. It's not put of the question to say that would still be slightly better than the Knicks. They have a young cornerstone, a burgeoning perimeter stud, a solid wing in LeVert and developing two-way center. That said, I'm cool with it. Ainge's demands were to steep and the walking away was the right move to make.
2023 - Own; DAL 11-30; DET 19-30 (via HOU to OKC); WAS 15-30 (via HOU to OKC)
2024 - Own; DAL 11-30 if not already settled; DET 19-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled; WAS 13-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled
2025 - Own; DAL 11-30 if not already settled; DET 14-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled; WAS 11-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled; MIL 5-30 (via NOP to POR to DET)
2026 - Own; DET 12-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled; WAS 9-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled
2027 - Own; DET 10-30 (via HOU to OKC) if not already settled
2028 - Own
2029 - Own
2023 - To MIN (via CHA)
2024 - To CHA; DET (via LAC); MIA 56-60 (via CLE to DET to PHL); More favorable of UTH and CLE (via UTH swap for CLE)
2025 - Own; BRK (via ATL); DAL if DAL has not conveyed 1st round pick to NYK by 2025; DET 56-60
2026 - Own or MIN then other to DET (via NYK); WAS (via HOU to OKC) if WAS has not conveyed 1st round pick to NYK by 2026
2027 - Own; WAS (via HOU to OKC) if WAS has not conveyed 1st round pick to NYK by 2026; DET (via HOU to OKC) if DET has not conveyed 1st round pick to NYK by 2027
2028 - Own
2029 - Own
For reference.
2023 Knicks and Dallas
2024 Knicks and Washington
2025 Knicks and Milwaukee
2026 Knicks and Detroit
BigDaddyG wrote:wargames wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Nalod wrote:MaddogSharp wrote:After the whole Mitchell thing I’ve seen some people say that we need to use those draft picks we have for a trade right now. However I don’t see it that way. I mean if the right player comes along during the season or after the season then that’s fine but I’m also happy with keeping the picks and keep building through the draft too. Plus we could always use some of those picks to move up in the draft if we target a certain player we feel can be a difference maker. Interested to hear your thoughts on what you would like to do with our extra picks!so its ok to spend the pick currency as long as your in agreement. A 26 year old with 3 years on deal, a 3 3x Allstar and arguably a top 20-25 player among 450 in the NBA.
"we'll get the next one". Folks, I realize Ainge was like Saddam Hussain for a few weeks but its a tenuous balance to go the extra pick or not. Whose to say a Brunson/DM backcourt don't work or the team around them does, and whose to say both don't go in a trade at some point? That's my reasoning for getting DM but as said before glad Leon drew the line for reasons stated previously.
Say our team is so good Brunson comes off the bench in 3 years? My imagination is limited to that path but not the big picture!
WE never really talked about if DM had another gear to go and what time of team can make him a All NBA players. Instead its mostly that DM is good, but not a super duper star. That's like what, 5-7 players currently who are??
Would any of our players benefited (on paper) to his inclusion or we just have pigeon holed the Youtube highlight mindset we have that each players is ISO and cannot elevate as a team?
The problem is the team still has a bunch of holes and question marks. That extra pick means a lot more to a team like the Knicks then it does to a team like the Cavs whose roster is a lot more well rounded. As for whether or not DM has the ability to reach superstardom, I'd say no. Can he be a high level offensive engine? I'd say he already is.I don’t think the Cavs are well rounded… at least not when it will matter. Their picks don’t start converting until around 2024 and don’t finish being either sent or swapped with the Jazz until 2029. Ainge got exactly what he wanted from the Cavs. Picks so far from now no one can predict how good or bad they will be.
It’s funny how so many people are ready to jump on the Knicks they don’t realize Ainge basically got what he wanted from the Cavs and put their future in a tenuous position. For example Mitchell’s current deal ends by the second year the picks start to convert. That means if he leaves as a UFA the Cavs will have to still give the Jazz 4 seasons of unprotected draft picks or pick swaps. I am not saying that is likely to happen but Ainge built that risk into this trade and I don’t think the Knicks were down for that. Every scenario we heard the Knicks send out to Ainge was based on limiting long term risk and giving them a chance to build a winner eventually.
It's more well-rounded than the Knicks roster. Let's say the Knicks did obtain Mitchell and the Cavs stood pat. It's not put of the question to say that would still be slightly better than the Knicks. They have a young cornerstone, a burgeoning perimeter stud, a solid wing in LeVert and developing two-way center. That said, I'm cool with it. Ainge's demands were to steep and the walking away was the right move to make.
Levert is injury prone, Kevin Love is injury prone, Rubio is injury prone. Levert is the most needed because he is the best SF on the roster. Overall three of their best players have to stay healthy for them to provide depth.
Alongside that the Cavs have a short back court of two ball dominant guards. They drafted Ochai with the hopes he would become their future 2 guard because they need more shooting from the backcourt to help space the offense for their bigs.
I like Garland. He is a great overall PG and his ability to orchestrate a offense is the reason why they can operate playing three big men. Mitchell on the other hand is an expert at getting his own shot and needs the ball to get his.
The Cavs are really talented but just like if Mitchell had gone to NY that backcourt is a awkward fit.
wargames wrote:!
The Cavs are really talented but just like if Mitchell had gone to NY that backcourt is a awkward fit.
That's what I'm thinking as well. The Cavs biggest problem was that the offense would crater with Garland on the bench. Because of ego, DM and DG will start but Cavs will likely pull DM earlier and then bring him back to steady the bench. There will be some fatigue at the end of games when DM checks back in with 5 minutes left for his 6th rotation.
gradyandrew wrote:wargames wrote:!
The Cavs are really talented but just like if Mitchell had gone to NY that backcourt is a awkward fit.That's what I'm thinking as well. The Cavs biggest problem was that the offense would crater with Garland on the bench. Because of ego, DM and DG will start but Cavs will likely pull DM earlier and then bring him back to steady the bench. There will be some fatigue at the end of games when DM checks back in with 5 minutes left for his 6th rotation.
The difference with the cavs is they have 2 mobile 7 fters that can protect the paint and guards driving in the paint. Randle isn’t that type or have that length. Mitch is ok but not on their centers level yet.
Just like Conley and Mitch combination was ok because of their DPOY guarding the rim and the paint. So this gives small guards the confidence to crowd the shooters (regardless of height difference) and force them to drive into the paint that’s always guarded.
Mitch hasn’t learned yet to use his length to guard the paint (he falls for the bait too early) but this would allow Mitch to still recover and guard the rim on the same play. But you need mobility and Mitch only focused on strength. He needs to be more agile and flexible. Something Sims is great at.
gradyandrew wrote:wargames wrote:!
The Cavs are really talented but just like if Mitchell had gone to NY that backcourt is a awkward fit.That's what I'm thinking as well. The Cavs biggest problem was that the offense would crater with Garland on the bench. Because of ego, DM and DG will start but Cavs will likely pull DM earlier and then bring him back to steady the bench. There will be some fatigue at the end of games when DM checks back in with 5 minutes left for his 6th rotation.
Yeah, but unlike the Knicks, the Cavs have two mobile shotblockers who can cover up for Garland and Mitchell. And they have Okoro, whose offensive shortcomings don't seem like such a detriment now. There more equipped to handle Randle's defensive shortcomings.