Knicks · EuroBasket Knicks (page 1)

martin @ 9/6/2022 8:24 AM
Thought this was a really nice article: https://theknickswall.com/checking-in-eu...

Checking in on the EuroBasket Knicks | The Knicks Wall
Nick Carannante


We’re reaching the end of slow season in the NBA calendar, but Evan Fournier and Rokas Jokubaitis are two Knicks already in mid-season form.

While you may be getting excited about football season here stateside, there is high-level basketball being played across the pond. 2022 brings us the return of the EuroBasket tournament, where international teams fight for European supremacy. This is a loaded tournament with some of the best international teams of all time, including three MVP candidates representing their respective countries. In such a rich time for international play, these teams are filled with NBA players across the board, including one current New York Knicks and one Knick to be: Evan Fournier and Rokas Jokubaitis.

These games provide very different contextual situations than the NBA does and you see very different sides of these players. No game is a better example of that than when these players matched up in the group stage game between Lithuania and France in the group of death.

Knicks fans have vastly different relationships with Jokubaitis and Fournier, so it is interesting to see them both succeeding in playing as the best versions of themselves. Jokubaitis is taking advantage of his opportunity to play for his country. Playing alongside all-star Domas Sabonis, Jonas Valanciunas, and a pair of Knicks legends: Iggy Brazdeikis and Mindaugus Kuzminksis, Rokas is getting a significant portion of time to run the offense. At 21, it’s hard to be mad at him averaging eight points and three assists on the highest stage, and even more importantly he is showing the “clutch gene”.

While he finished with 14 points in the game against France, he had only four of those in the first half. He was able to help Lithuania fight back with clutch shots from deep as well as a couple of key plays made for his teammates. I think it speaks volumes about the young Lithuanian’s role with the team that not only is he on the court late in close games but is given free rein to make plays. Not only was he given the opportunities, but he was successful when needed the most. Even though he is only shooting 22% from beyond the arc in group play, he was able to make the most of his minutes.

The other thing that has stood out from Rokas early in international play is his ability to take defenders off the dribble. The “Group of Death” in this competition has earned its moniker for a reason. Lithuania has struggled, starting 0-3 in group play with games against powerhouses like reigning Eurobasket champ Slovenia and Olympic silver medalist France. Lithuania has lost close games in all three performances including a double-overtime game to Germany. These games have given Jokubaitis a chance to go up against some of the best defenders on the continent, and he has looked every bit up to the part of going at them. He has been explosive going to the basket and taking defenders off the dribble, putting him in advantageous positions to score or create easy buckets for his teammates.

Unlike Rokas who has nothing but upside for Knicks fandom with tantalizing hypotheticals about the impact he can have as a “draft and stash”, Fournier is a known quantity. Nothing can ever be said positive about the French shooter without the context being brought up about his contract or who he was signed over. All of those comments are fair given the lack of success from such a big signing from this front office. With that being said, however, Fournier has been a successful NBA role player for a long time now and there is a reason for that.

Nothing will ever highlight that more than Fournier in his element representing his home country. If you ever watch a French international basketball game, you would think that the Knicks guard is the player making $205,000,002 and not his multi-time DPOY French teammate Rudy Gobert. The international game is very different from the NBA and it highlights scoring in an open-court situation, which makes Fournier extremely dangerous. He has shown that in international play throughout his career, especially with France’s success in the previous Olympics.

Nothing has changed for Fournier in Eurobasket. He is still a walking bucket against any defender that stands in his way. The game against Lithuania was a great example of that. Late in the game when France needed baskets, they gave him the ball and spread out. He was trading late threes in the game with Rokas but that was enough to put the game away for a French team led by his 24 points. He had 18 in the first half alone after getting hot from deep, where he is just out of his mind at the moment. Throughout the first three games for his homeland, Fournier is attempting nearly seven threes a game and connecting on 40% of them.

You see the role he is given in the numbers but the eye test is where it really shines through. His three-point shooting numbers are similar to what he put up in his record-breaking Knicks season and his scoring numbers are just a little better, but he is relied on to create the offense for France almost entirely. Their offense runs through him in a way that he does not experience in the NBA, and he is better off for it. He is far more efficient than you would ever expect and he helps France contend for international championships, as they are surely a favorite in this competition.

After his dominant performance against Lithuania, Fournier played just over 20 minutes against bottom-dweller Hungary. In the Group of Death there are not a lot of easy games, especially given the success of Jusuf Nurkic’s Bosnia and Herzegovina. The fact that Fournier played so little in the one game that France could breathe easily speaks to the importance he has in this context.

After struggling in the opening loss to host Germany, Fournier and France have gotten on the right track. It won’t get any easier in group play for them with Luka Doncic’s Slovenia still to come on the schedule. For France to make it out of the Group of Death as they are supposed to, it will be on the shoulders of their captain. He has put up remarkable numbers in France’s big games in the past and we will see if he can continue to impress.

The international play emphasizes scoring and puts much less stress on the defense – that is always going to make a player like Fournier look better, but right now he is on a short list for first-team all-Eurobasket. Group play has been very exciting, even providing a little bit of scandal and controversy. You’re missing out if you haven’t had a chance to watch, but there is still plenty of time left to go. It remains to be seen if both France and Lithuania will get out of their group but if they do, Fournier and Jokubaitis will be a major reason why. With the number of eyes on them on one of the biggest international stages, they will come out with higher expectations after these showings.

We will be keeping you updated with how these players and teams are doing if you are not up to date with European tournaments. If the first few games are any indication, it will be a wild ride for everybody involved!

Nalod @ 9/6/2022 8:54 AM
Good read. Kuz, Iggy Bratz and Rokas all on the same team! Different eras for them. Kuz and Iggy got their chances.

EF and Randles issues early last year were well documented. Think of each season in quandrants and how a player performed. EF started bad and it was said frustrated Randle who MIGHT have been feeling a bit empowered after his all NBA season and new contract.
That said, EF finished well and Randle finished injured. IN between there were good moments and Randle had some good assist days.

But……..While fans are all too eager run EF out of town and toast Grimes as the new Landry, the thinking for now might be with Brunson, a more dangerous RJ, and (Maybe) less is more Randle on board maybe EF gets those easier looks and if they respect him, and he makes the pass, things get easier for the other 4 on the court, especially Randle.
HIgh pick and role with Brunson, defender covers Bruns leaving EF open, ball swings……Shot is there or now EF is covered…………now the fun starts.

I can’t imagine an scenario were Brunson is not the main ball handler. I think if Randle and Grimes get a rebound they bring it up still. Relax guys, we .500 and things will be fun.

jskinny35 @ 9/6/2022 11:47 AM
Fournier

What I like - beautiful stroke, improved as season progressed, can spot up and create, our best floor spacer re: defenses planning

What I don't like - doesn't seem to have the defensive tenacity needed for a top defensive team

Ideally he's a perfect 6th man but with our team really needing more outside shooting/efficiency - he prob will start until Grimes (hopefully) progresses enough to bench him. Would prefer Grimes and youths play but don't see Thibs benching Fournier from get go

blkexec @ 9/6/2022 11:51 AM
Nalod wrote:Good read. Kuz, Iggy Bratz and Rokas all on the same team! Different eras for them. Kuz and Iggy got their chances.

EF and Randles issues early last year were well documented. Think of each season in quandrants and how a player performed. EF started bad and it was said frustrated Randle who MIGHT have been feeling a bit empowered after his all NBA season and new contract.
That said, EF finished well and Randle finished injured. IN between there were good moments and Randle had some good assist days.

But……..While fans are all too eager run EF out of town and toast Grimes as the new Landry, the thinking for now might be with Brunson, a more dangerous RJ, and (Maybe) less is more Randle on board maybe EF gets those easier looks and if they respect him, and he makes the pass, things get easier for the other 4 on the court, especially Randle.
HIgh pick and role with Brunson, defender covers Bruns leaving EF open, ball swings……Shot is there or now EF is covered…………now the fun starts.

I can’t imagine an scenario were Brunson is not the main ball handler. I think if Randle and Grimes get a rebound they bring it up still. Relax guys, we .500 and things will be fun.

As it stands, Thibs will run with the same starting 4 as last season, plus Brunson. RJ and Randle was the top minutes per game players under thibs. I don't see that changing. Brunson will now be the 3rd highest, shared with EF. Seems like from a political perspective and trying to be aligned with the FO, Thibs will play his top dollar players major minutes (Brunson, EF, RJ, Randle). So be aware of seeing the same song and dance post of "Play The Yoots"

If Thibs played IQ instead of Burks (very early in the season), IQ may have had more value and Ainge might have agreed with our trade proposal. Cavs traded 2 players they do not need. But they also had enough PT against starter quality players during the season, to keep their value high. Thibs approach to play the yoots towards the end of the season, was not a good evaluation of talent. So we are in the same boat as last year.

I'm sorry but I don't see how anything changes except swapping Burks out and Brunson in. Swapping T.Gipson for Hart as the new backup center. A healthy Rose will also reduce minutes for the yoots (IQ or Grimes) and Deuce may not see the floor at all this season, unless there's a new string of COVID spread.

Our only hope is the top money makers on the team all step their game and efficiency up, thanks to finally having a legit PG. A legit backup stretch center and Money Mitch with a different approach than last season, where bulk was not the best approach for him. It's all about agility and recovery speed for Mitch.

HofstraBBall @ 9/6/2022 1:40 PM
blkexec wrote:
Nalod wrote:Good read. Kuz, Iggy Bratz and Rokas all on the same team! Different eras for them. Kuz and Iggy got their chances.

EF and Randles issues early last year were well documented. Think of each season in quandrants and how a player performed. EF started bad and it was said frustrated Randle who MIGHT have been feeling a bit empowered after his all NBA season and new contract.
That said, EF finished well and Randle finished injured. IN between there were good moments and Randle had some good assist days.

But……..While fans are all too eager run EF out of town and toast Grimes as the new Landry, the thinking for now might be with Brunson, a more dangerous RJ, and (Maybe) less is more Randle on board maybe EF gets those easier looks and if they respect him, and he makes the pass, things get easier for the other 4 on the court, especially Randle.
HIgh pick and role with Brunson, defender covers Bruns leaving EF open, ball swings……Shot is there or now EF is covered…………now the fun starts.

I can’t imagine an scenario were Brunson is not the main ball handler. I think if Randle and Grimes get a rebound they bring it up still. Relax guys, we .500 and things will be fun.

As it stands, Thibs will run with the same starting 4 as last season, plus Brunson. RJ and Randle was the top minutes per game players under thibs. I don't see that changing. Brunson will now be the 3rd highest, shared with EF. Seems like from a political perspective and trying to be aligned with the FO, Thibs will play his top dollar players major minutes (Brunson, EF, RJ, Randle). So be aware of seeing the same song and dance post of "Play The Yoots"

If Thibs played IQ instead of Burks (very early in the season), IQ may have had more value and Ainge might have agreed with our trade proposal. Cavs traded 2 players they do not need. But they also had enough PT against starter quality players during the season, to keep their value high. Thibs approach to play the yoots towards the end of the season, was not a good evaluation of talent. So we are in the same boat as last year.

I'm sorry but I don't see how anything changes except swapping Burks out and Brunson in. Swapping T.Gipson for Hart as the new backup center. A healthy Rose will also reduce minutes for the yoots (IQ or Grimes) and Deuce may not see the floor at all this season, unless there's a new string of COVID spread.

Our only hope is the top money makers on the team all step their game and efficiency up, thanks to finally having a legit PG. A legit backup stretch center and Money Mitch with a different approach than last season, where bulk was not the best approach for him. It's all about agility and recovery speed for Mitch.

You keep saying that IQs, Obi's value was hurt by Thibs? IQ played and struggled early in the year. His shooting hurt his value. Late in the year he played well. Raising his value. SAME coach. Obi's value is what it has always been. Good motor, great dunker and not very good shooter. Don't see the need to think Thibs is as fault for that. He had an opportunity when Randle had COVID and games meant something. Did nothing. Lowered value? Played well late in year with Randle out and games meant nothing. SAME coach.

To me, this is just another Frank situation. Fans over estimate what they think their young hopefulls can do. And if they don't get to that perceived level, fans look to blame someone else. As we learned with Frank, it has less to do about opportunity and more to do about ability and skills not there. Can be argued that Grimes and IQ would not have received as much playing time with other coaches. They went from being late first picks to playing significant minutes their first years. Except for lottery picks, many late first don't see the court the first year on a good team. Don't see the constant reason to blame Thibs. Thibs is not making Obi shoot 30% from three. IQ average 23 per game. About average for a non Starter. He was also not better than Burks at the beginning of the year. Grimes had skills and played well. Got minutes than got hurt. Not Thibs fault.

martin @ 9/6/2022 2:33 PM
martin @ 9/6/2022 2:34 PM
jskinny35 wrote:Fournier

What I like - beautiful stroke, improved as season progressed, can spot up and create, our best floor spacer re: defenses planning

What I don't like - doesn't seem to have the defensive tenacity needed for a top defensive team

Ideally he's a perfect 6th man but with our team really needing more outside shooting/efficiency - he prob will start until Grimes (hopefully) progresses enough to bench him. Would prefer Grimes and youths play but don't see Thibs benching Fournier from get go

I do see Grimes eventually getting the starting spot and Fournier will fit in perfectly with the second unit. IMHO so will Mitch when iHart shows his stuff.

HofstraBBall @ 9/6/2022 3:33 PM
martin wrote:

technomaster @ 9/6/2022 8:41 PM
martin wrote:
jskinny35 wrote:Fournier

What I like - beautiful stroke, improved as season progressed, can spot up and create, our best floor spacer re: defenses planning

What I don't like - doesn't seem to have the defensive tenacity needed for a top defensive team

Ideally he's a perfect 6th man but with our team really needing more outside shooting/efficiency - he prob will start until Grimes (hopefully) progresses enough to bench him. Would prefer Grimes and youths play but don't see Thibs benching Fournier from get go

I do see Grimes eventually getting the starting spot and Fournier will fit in perfectly with the second unit. IMHO so will Mitch when iHart shows his stuff.

I'm on board. It makes a lot of sense. I can easily see Grimes/iHart get the "short starter" minutes to maximize opportunities for Brunson/RJ/Randle get in a groove and have some good spacing to work with. And if these guys get hot they can go a little longer. Then we bring in Fournier/Mitch early. I'd imagine that Fournier/Mitch will still get more minutes.

I think Fournier would do really well in a faster paced, open floor lineup alongside Rose/Quickley/Obi... and with a lot of movement, it also gives Mitch opportunities to lose his man and get some easy looks.

Kemet @ 9/6/2022 8:45 PM
Nalod wrote:Good read. Kuz, Iggy Bratz and Rokas all on the same team! Different eras for them. Kuz and Iggy got their chances.

EF and Randles issues early last year were well documented. Think of each season in quandrants and how a player performed. EF started bad and it was said frustrated Randle who MIGHT have been feeling a bit empowered after his all NBA season and new contract.
That said, EF finished well and Randle finished injured. IN between there were good moments and Randle had some good assist days.

But……..While fans are all too eager run EF out of town and toast Grimes as the new Landry, the thinking for now might be with Brunson, a more dangerous RJ, and (Maybe) less is more Randle on board maybe EF gets those easier looks and if they respect him, and he makes the pass, things get easier for the other 4 on the court, especially Randle.
HIgh pick and role with Brunson, defender covers Bruns leaving EF open, ball swings……Shot is there or now EF is covered…………now the fun starts.

I can’t imagine an scenario were Brunson is not the main ball handler. I think if Randle and Grimes get a rebound they bring it up still. Relax guys, we .500 and things will be fun.

Randle & Barrett has to add screening/picking/passing to their performance in the lineup with the new PG Brunson for player Fournier's best talent (as a perimeter spot-shooter) to average 20 quick points in 24 minutes of playing time.
And please let D.Rose 2nd unit bench lineup receive above 20 minutes per game in the upcoming season. Why?
Barrett got his extension, so if Cam Reddish bring some dynamic energy & chemistry alongside Quickley & Obi Toppin in the 2nd unit lineup, give the lineup more minutes. Plus cut Randle & Barrett minutes (They already got their extension).

martin @ 9/8/2022 7:12 AM
This dude is INSANE

martin @ 9/8/2022 9:34 AM
Rookie @ 9/8/2022 11:43 AM
Is there a reason games aren’t televised?
Philc1 @ 9/8/2022 12:02 PM
How’s Steve Nash 2.0 Milos Vujanic and Dirk 2.0 Maciej Lampe doing?
martin @ 9/8/2022 5:01 PM
martin @ 9/9/2022 2:45 PM
I would guess that part of the problem at the beginning of last year was the team leader dynamic. Fournier and Kemba are more natural leaders and probably used to that role but took a backseat to figure things out and in deference to RJ/Randle doing and being so good the previous year.

Took a while to figure out last year and I bet it was not smooth or even complete.

BigDaddyG @ 9/11/2022 5:13 PM
The Rok showed out and I'm proud. I'm hopeful he makes his way to the roster at some point.
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