Knicks · Training camp is just around the corner- let the battle for minutes begin! (page 1)
Jimbo5@ 9/22/2022 7:45 AM
Chances are the knicks will parade this current roster when opening night arrives. Ian Bagley released an article talking about possible starters. It seems like the possible starting roster he wrote about is more of his opinion and not an actual idea proposed by the front office or Thibs. Or is it?
Reports came out that Cam was working out with the knicks most of the summer and is in great shape. Its also said that just like in previous training camps Thibs will look at the players with a clean slate. Bagley mentioned a possible SG starter will be Grimes, which has been previously floated. But what caught my attention was the possibility if Cam starting at the SF and RJ at the SG. Is this actually a possibility? I really like it but it seems like it will create more roster problems for the second unit, who will take Cam's place and ride the bench? Fournier, he has a huge contract. IQ? Reports came out he is expected to have a bigger role this year. Grimes? I doubt it, he was an untouchable player in the Mitchell trade talks.
I really got excited thinking about the possibility of Cam starting but i cant see the logic how it could work for the rest of the rotation.
franco12@ 9/22/2022 8:20 AM
I thought RJ performed better at the 2 at times.
You are right that if Cam is the SF and RJ the SG, then you have even more problems as far as allocation of minutes.
But, that is a good problem and one I would hope the front office would exploit to add increase our talent.
martin@ 9/22/2022 8:42 AM
Jimbo5 wrote:Chances are the knicks will parade this current roster when opening night arrives. Ian Bagley released an article talking about possible starters. It seems like the possible starting roster he wrote about is more of his opinion and not an actual idea proposed by the front office or Thibs. Or is it?
I think it is safe to say that it's all speculation until guys go through training camp and preseason. Maybe there is a trade, maybe there isn't. Maybe Fournier needs several months rest to cool off from playing FIVB throughout the summer, maybe he comes to camp on fire and owns a starting spot. Maybe DRose is in the best shape of his life or maybe he is perfect player for the Taj role until someone gets hurt.
Jimbo5 wrote:Reports came out that Cam was working out with the knicks most of the summer and is in great shape. Its also said that just like in previous training camps Thibs will look at the players with a clean slate. Bagley mentioned a possible SG starter will be Grimes, which has been previously floated. But what caught my attention was the possibility if Cam starting at the SF and RJ at the SG. Is this actually a possibility? I really like it but it seems like it will create more roster problems for the second unit, who will take Cam's place and ride the bench? Fournier, he has a huge contract. IQ? Reports came out he is expected to have a bigger role this year. Grimes? I doubt it, he was an untouchable player in the Mitchell trade talks.
I really got excited thinking about the possibility of Cam starting but i cant see the logic how it could work for the rest of the rotation.
IMHO having too many players who have earned minutes is a good thing albeit not ideal.
The Knicks need to trade Fournier for a better SF. I get they hate using assets, but do it now before the price got up or Fournier’s value goes down.
Jimbo5@ 9/22/2022 9:35 AM
Will the FO have a shift in philosophy this season? They have always supported Thibs' win now approach at the expense of gametime minutes for the young knicks. Has any of the top brass think that that the NBA in general have undervalued the young knicks? Throughout the Mitchell trade talks the knicks FO thought that they have the best package to offer, do they think the value of Obi, IQ, Cam are much higher than how the rest of the NBA sees these guys? Do they think that giving the vets majority of the minutes last year have backfired as seen by the perceived value of the young knicks by the rest of the nba? If the reasoning of the FO for agreeing to give Randle and Fournier major minutes last season is to increase their trade value so they can move them this offseason? The offseason will end soon and both players are still in the roster and continuing to give them major minutes will not change that.
Obi and IQ will be on their 3rd year, Grimes and Deuce, Sims are sophomores. Will we finally see regular minutes for them? I do hope so...
Jimbo5@ 9/22/2022 9:51 AM
IMHO having too many players who have earned minutes is a good thing albeit not ideal.
Im all for this rotation but its hard to believe that Drose wont have regular back up minutes, the only way this can happen if the FO/Thibs can sell the idea of giving just spot minutes to DRose to preserve him further down the season.
The easiest way to clear minutes for grimes, Cam and Obi is to trade both Randle and Fournier.
SergioNYK@ 9/22/2022 10:03 AM
I think Begley is just guessing. No way I believe he would start Reddish. I don't even think he'll start Grimes over Fournier.
gradyandrew@ 9/22/2022 10:42 AM
Jimbo5 wrote:
IMHO having too many players who have earned minutes is a good thing albeit not ideal.
Im all for this rotation but its hard to believe that Drose wont have regular back up minutes, the only way this can happen if the FO/Thibs can sell the idea of giving just spot minutes to DRose to preserve him further down the season. The easiest way to clear minutes for grimes, Cam and Obi is to trade both Randle and Fournier.
And I was worried no one would mention trading Randle!
I agree with Martin- we will just have to wait and see. Injuries are part of the game. It looks like the Knicks go 3 deep across every position. The biggest avenue for improvement is just getting IQ more minutes. All the advanced stats love that guy and by some metrics, he has the highest ceiling (538 RAPTOR). Cam is the only guy who will be a free agent next summer so hopefully minutes won't be a problem. I think Brunson will bring those intangible vibes and the starters, whoever they are, can avoid those holes they have gotten in for the past few seasons.
Boston lost Udoka and Robert Williams for the first month and Lonzo Ball is still a question mark. Philadelphia will come out trying to secure home court for the playoffs but outside of them, the Knicks should be in it every game. I'm pumped for the season, I have had enough off season bullshit.
KnickDanger@ 9/22/2022 11:21 AM
Trade Randle thread!
BigDaddyG@ 9/22/2022 11:40 AM
KnickDanger wrote:Trade Randle thread!
How much can you get for a Randle in Poor condition?
HofstraBBall@ 9/22/2022 11:47 AM
Trust Thibs! His main job will be to see which lineups work best together.
Like the idea of JB, Grimes, RJ, Randle and MR. Also intrigued by the possibility of JB, RJ, CAM, Randle, MR. But think that has a slim chance. Think there is always too much emphasis on who the starters will be. Imo, it's more important to just have TWO solid units. Gut feeling is Thibs will go with: JB, EF, RJ, Randle and MR with a second unit of Rose, IQ, Grimes,Obi and Hart. Cam seems like odd man out again. Unless Rose gets hurt then IQ would move to the PG and Cam would take over the SF role in the second unit. Feel Knicks already know they have to make some changes but know it's best to see how players perform in the first half and hope a stronger market develops from playoff contending teams.
EwingsGlass@ 9/22/2022 12:57 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:Chances are the knicks will parade this current roster when opening night arrives. Ian Bagley released an article talking about possible starters. It seems like the possible starting roster he wrote about is more of his opinion and not an actual idea proposed by the front office or Thibs. Or is it?
Reports came out that Cam was working out with the knicks most of the summer and is in great shape. Its also said that just like in previous training camps Thibs will look at the players with a clean slate. Bagley mentioned a possible SG starter will be Grimes, which has been previously floated. But what caught my attention was the possibility if Cam starting at the SF and RJ at the SG. Is this actually a possibility? I really like it but it seems like it will create more roster problems for the second unit, who will take Cam's place and ride the bench? Fournier, he has a huge contract. IQ? Reports came out he is expected to have a bigger role this year. Grimes? I doubt it, he was an untouchable player in the Mitchell trade talks.
I really got excited thinking about the possibility of Cam starting but i cant see the logic how it could work for the rest of the rotation.
I like the size and defensive look from this lineup BBRRR. I love Reddish. He would have to have an amazing camp to walk away with the starting position.
If Cam got the starting nod, Rose/IQ/Grimes/Fournier definitely clustered for minutes if Barrett is taking SG minutes. Better to be undersized at SF in the second unit though. My guess is that McBride and Grimes are still at the short end of the stick, but the Fournier/Grimes/Reddish fight for minutes is the talk of camp.
All this said, Reddish coming into camp able to compete for the starting SF would be the best thing that could happen to the Knicks.
gradyandrew@ 9/22/2022 1:18 PM
EwingsGlass wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:Chances are the knicks will parade this current roster when opening night arrives. Ian Bagley released an article talking about possible starters. It seems like the possible starting roster he wrote about is more of his opinion and not an actual idea proposed by the front office or Thibs. Or is it?
Reports came out that Cam was working out with the knicks most of the summer and is in great shape. Its also said that just like in previous training camps Thibs will look at the players with a clean slate. Bagley mentioned a possible SG starter will be Grimes, which has been previously floated. But what caught my attention was the possibility if Cam starting at the SF and RJ at the SG. Is this actually a possibility? I really like it but it seems like it will create more roster problems for the second unit, who will take Cam's place and ride the bench? Fournier, he has a huge contract. IQ? Reports came out he is expected to have a bigger role this year. Grimes? I doubt it, he was an untouchable player in the Mitchell trade talks.
I really got excited thinking about the possibility of Cam starting but i cant see the logic how it could work for the rest of the rotation.
I like the size and defensive look from this lineup BBRRR. I love Reddish. He would have to have an amazing camp to walk away with the starting position.
If Cam got the starting nod, Rose/IQ/Grimes/Fournier definitely clustered for minutes if Barrett is taking SG minutes. Better to be undersized at SF in the second unit though. My guess is that McBride and Grimes are still at the short end of the stick, but the Fournier/Grimes/Reddish fight for minutes is the talk of camp.
All this said, Reddish coming into camp able to compete for the starting SF would be the best thing that could happen to the Knicks.
It all depends on 3 point shooting. Teams will crowd the paint and let RJ Randle and Cam fire away from 3 point land if those 3 start. It will take a long time before teams move away from that plan. With Fournier, at least you have to respect his 3 point shot. Defensively that team of BBRRR could crush it.
BigDaddyG@ 9/22/2022 1:53 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:Chances are the knicks will parade this current roster when opening night arrives. Ian Bagley released an article talking about possible starters. It seems like the possible starting roster he wrote about is more of his opinion and not an actual idea proposed by the front office or Thibs. Or is it?
Reports came out that Cam was working out with the knicks most of the summer and is in great shape. Its also said that just like in previous training camps Thibs will look at the players with a clean slate. Bagley mentioned a possible SG starter will be Grimes, which has been previously floated. But what caught my attention was the possibility if Cam starting at the SF and RJ at the SG. Is this actually a possibility? I really like it but it seems like it will create more roster problems for the second unit, who will take Cam's place and ride the bench? Fournier, he has a huge contract. IQ? Reports came out he is expected to have a bigger role this year. Grimes? I doubt it, he was an untouchable player in the Mitchell trade talks.
I really got excited thinking about the possibility of Cam starting but i cant see the logic how it could work for the rest of the rotation.
I like the size and defensive look from this lineup BBRRR. I love Reddish. He would have to have an amazing camp to walk away with the starting position.
If Cam got the starting nod, Rose/IQ/Grimes/Fournier definitely clustered for minutes if Barrett is taking SG minutes. Better to be undersized at SF in the second unit though. My guess is that McBride and Grimes are still at the short end of the stick, but the Fournier/Grimes/Reddish fight for minutes is the talk of camp.
All this said, Reddish coming into camp able to compete for the starting SF would be the best thing that could happen to the Knicks.
It all depends on 3 point shooting. Teams will crowd the paint and let RJ Randle and Cam fire away from 3 point land if those 3 start. It will take a long time before teams move away from that plan. With Fournier, at least you have to respect his 3 point shot. Defensively that team of BBRRR could crush it.
Jalen is a solid open three-point shooter. Might be times where we see RJ as the initiator as well.
martin@ 9/22/2022 3:04 PM
Begley is not guessing. In fact, you are guessing at what Ian is reporting.
SergioNYK wrote:I think Begley is just guessing. No way I believe he would start Reddish. I don't even think he'll start Grimes over Fournier.
I don’t know if this was an opinion shared by the majority of decision-makers, but it was prevalent. One scenario discussed internally around that time was starting Quentin Grimes at shooting guard and bringing Fournier off the bench. Another scenario discussed internally involved moving RJ Barrett to shooting guard and Cam Reddish to small forward. If I had to guess, the Knicks discussed several other scenarios at the time and in the 10-plus weeks since the signing.
Clean@ 9/22/2022 4:19 PM
This preseason I am going to look for one major thing before I focus on other aspects. I want to see how Thibs handles minutes. The last preseason he stuck with a rotation and played the games like regular season which meant high minutes to vets. Thibs needs to use the preseason to get an idea of what groups of guys works best with each other. Mix and match players and work some young players into the rotation to see if they can contribute or if they fit better with other players. I just want him to experiment some and see what works and what does not.
I am pro young players on this team but I am not pro just giving them a starter spot without them proving they deserve it. While experimenting give some young players like Grimes and Cam some time as a starter and see how the team functions in the preseason. Depending how things go we choose a early regular season starter. I also want to see how Hart does as a start some also. He might be a better fit for the starters due to his shooting ability. However, he will open up things for Obi and Quick off the bench. This is why we need to experiment. There are so many combinations that could be better than what most people expect our rotation to be.
EwingsGlass@ 9/22/2022 8:39 PM
gradyandrew wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:Chances are the knicks will parade this current roster when opening night arrives. Ian Bagley released an article talking about possible starters. It seems like the possible starting roster he wrote about is more of his opinion and not an actual idea proposed by the front office or Thibs. Or is it?
Reports came out that Cam was working out with the knicks most of the summer and is in great shape. Its also said that just like in previous training camps Thibs will look at the players with a clean slate. Bagley mentioned a possible SG starter will be Grimes, which has been previously floated. But what caught my attention was the possibility if Cam starting at the SF and RJ at the SG. Is this actually a possibility? I really like it but it seems like it will create more roster problems for the second unit, who will take Cam's place and ride the bench? Fournier, he has a huge contract. IQ? Reports came out he is expected to have a bigger role this year. Grimes? I doubt it, he was an untouchable player in the Mitchell trade talks.
I really got excited thinking about the possibility of Cam starting but i cant see the logic how it could work for the rest of the rotation.
I like the size and defensive look from this lineup BBRRR. I love Reddish. He would have to have an amazing camp to walk away with the starting position.
If Cam got the starting nod, Rose/IQ/Grimes/Fournier definitely clustered for minutes if Barrett is taking SG minutes. Better to be undersized at SF in the second unit though. My guess is that McBride and Grimes are still at the short end of the stick, but the Fournier/Grimes/Reddish fight for minutes is the talk of camp.
All this said, Reddish coming into camp able to compete for the starting SF would be the best thing that could happen to the Knicks.
It all depends on 3 point shooting. Teams will crowd the paint and let RJ Randle and Cam fire away from 3 point land if those 3 start. It will take a long time before teams move away from that plan. With Fournier, at least you have to respect his 3 point shot. Defensively that team of BBRRR could crush it.
I can't change Barrett and Randle - if their 3pt percentages are anything like 20-21, they are a tough team. If like 21-22, you can pack the paint.
Cam interests me cause he shot 37% with ATL in limited minutes before the trade. He has consistently shot 90% from FT every year of his career. High FT% generally correlates well to high 3pt percentage. I think you get a guy like Cam comfortable, he's a 37-42% 3 point shooter with a 7'2 wingspan that is used to taking the tougher defensive assignments. I was pushing for a Cam trade before last season. Guy needs some opportunities.
Fournier could be put to more use in the second unit and could get more looks as a secondary ball handler, depending who else is on the floor.
Jimbo5@ 9/22/2022 8:52 PM
This is the season to let OBi, IQ And Cam play , the knick FO as well as the rest of the NBA together with the fans needs to see if these guys are NBA players or not. I hope Thibs can find a way to reduce the minutes of Randle and Fournier. I hope the FO can convince Thibs to do that as a way to preserve both players for the latter part of the season. 😜 i think the Knicks have a good young core, knicks fans are just eager to see them get minutes
Kemet@ 9/22/2022 10:09 PM
The Knick preseason games last year had coach Thibs crazy upset at not having any type of back court defense to put on the court. The Knicks FO got rid of the 2020-21 Knicks backcourt defense in the offseason by not resigning Payton, Bullock, and Frank, plus replacing them with Kemba, Fournier, and rookie Grimes to have a 37 win season. Payton & Bullocks maybe poor scorers, but their dynamic team-defense in the back-court won 41 games out of q 72 game season. Frank & Bullocks team defense in the back-court help the Mavs go to the WCF. The Knicks FO got two offensive back court players (Kemba & Fournier) last offseason, and tried to get two offensive backcourt players this offseason in Brunson & Donovan.
The Knicks FO says to Thibs .. Brunson contract makes him a starter, Fourniers contract makes him a starter, RJ Barrett being the 3rd pick in the draft deserve an extension and a place in the starter lineup, plus Randle becoming an all-star in the Covid season makes him a starter, and MitchRob being a double-double 2 block big man makes him a starter.
Kemet@ 9/22/2022 10:16 PM
Jimbo5 wrote:This is the season to let OBi, IQ And Cam play , the knick FO as well as the rest of the NBA together with the fans needs to see if these guys are NBA players or not. I hope Thibs can find a way to reduce the minutes of Randle and Fournier. I hope the FO can convince Thibs to do that as a way to preserve both players for the latter part of the season. 😜 i think the Knicks have a good young core, knicks fans are just eager to see them get minutes
I already see .... The D.Rose, Quickley, Cam, Toppin, and Hart lineup consistently outperforming the Knicks starter lineup !!!
Jimbo5@ 9/22/2022 10:38 PM
Kemet wrote:
Jimbo5 wrote:This is the season to let OBi, IQ And Cam play , the knick FO as well as the rest of the NBA together with the fans needs to see if these guys are NBA players or not. I hope Thibs can find a way to reduce the minutes of Randle and Fournier. I hope the FO can convince Thibs to do that as a way to preserve both players for the latter part of the season. 😜 i think the Knicks have a good young core, knicks fans are just eager to see them get minutes
I already see .... The D.Rose, Quickley, Cam, Toppin, and Hart lineup consistently outperforming the Knicks starter lineup !!!
Who are your starting SG Kemet? Fournier or Grimes? If Fournier is your starter it won't be hard to see the 2nd unit out performing the starters but where is the minutes for Grimes?
