Knicks · When we tried knox for cam reddish (page 5)

HofstraBBall wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Bigger factor, imo, is the one and done percentage in the NBA today. You look at kids like Cam, RJ, Zion and you question if they had enough time to learn the basics of basketball. Think these are times of YouTube dribbling drills and TikTok breaking ankle videos. They have incorrectly taught younger players that this is what really matters. Think true basketball IQ is taught at the College level. When kids still are capable of listening and coaches preach team concepts. Once these players get to the NBA it all becomes about themselves and padding stats to get big contracts. Coaches in the NBA also expect players to know all the basic skills. They have to focus on winning first and foremost. Think this is why there are so many high level NBA pros that just don't know much about basic basketball concepts.
I was lucky to play under my dad who had many years of college coaching experience. Hated when he called out making the wrong play despite having good results. However, appreciated it later on.
Think several of the players we have can get to next level learning basic basketball IQ.
Reason why I have always felt guys like LBJ, Magic, Bird, MJ where at a different level. All had the ability, skills but more importantly all had high level of bball IQ.

Damn Hofstra, this post makes you sound old as hell. LOL Next thing you know you will be screaming at those kids to get off your damn lawn and turn down that 'crap' music.

All joking aside, once collegiate coaches started getting paid like rock stars, I lost a lot of respect for the college game. To me it seems to be a very exploitive business model. I'm sure this does not include your father who I'm guessing loved the game and was more interested in helping young men grow. Sadly, the Pitinos and Caliparis of the world ruined it for most of the good guys.

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Bigger factor, imo, is the one and done percentage in the NBA today. You look at kids like Cam, RJ, Zion and you question if they had enough time to learn the basics of basketball. Think these are times of YouTube dribbling drills and TikTok breaking ankle videos. They have incorrectly taught younger players that this is what really matters. Think true basketball IQ is taught at the College level. When kids still are capable of listening and coaches preach team concepts. Once these players get to the NBA it all becomes about themselves and padding stats to get big contracts. Coaches in the NBA also expect players to know all the basic skills. They have to focus on winning first and foremost. Think this is why there are so many high level NBA pros that just don't know much about basic basketball concepts.
I was lucky to play under my dad who had many years of college coaching experience. Hated when he called out making the wrong play despite having good results. However, appreciated it later on.
Think several of the players we have can get to next level learning basic basketball IQ.
Reason why I have always felt guys like LBJ, Magic, Bird, MJ where at a different level. All had the ability, skills but more importantly all had high level of bball IQ.

Damn Hofstra, this post makes you sound old as hell. LOL Next thing you know you will be screaming at those kids to get off your damn lawn and turn down that 'crap' music.

All joking aside, once collegiate coaches started getting paid like rock stars, I lost a lot of respect for the college game. To me it seems to be a very exploitive business model. I'm sure this does not include your father who I'm guessing loved the game and was more interested in helping young men grow. Sadly, the Pitinos and Caliparis of the world ruined it for most of the good guys.

Jim Calhoun. I went to UConn when he just started coaching there. One of the worst gutter mouths I’ve ever heard but after that he was a very down to earth person who would talk with students and gave a lot back to Hartford healthcare. He made good money but not pitino money.Overall for a god like creature here in ct a good dude who was a basketball genius

gradyandrew wrote:

HofstraBBall wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Cam looked awesome tonight

Cam looked the best forward 5o come out of Duke since Grant Hill

The thing about Duke players and why so many have busted or underwhelmed in the nba over the years is just the insane amount of hype they get while in college. Laetner was taken by Team USA over Shaq and he was supposed to be Larry Bird 2.0 and Bobby Hurley was the next Pistol Pete. Grant Hill was going to be better than Jordan and so on

Also, it seems like a lot of Duke players in the one and done era already have NBA bodies by age 18. Zion was a tank before he could legally vote and RJ had an nba body too at the same age. They can just play bully ball in college against stick figures playing for West Virginia state

No question lots of Duke disappointments (busts?). I would say Grant Hill does not fall into that category. A terrible ankle injury derailed his career but it is still one of an all star. Before the injury he was among the most complete players in the game.

Bigger factor, imo, is the one and done percentage in the NBA today. You look at kids like Cam, RJ, Zion and you question if they had enough time to learn the basics of basketball. Think these are times of YouTube dribbling drills and TikTok breaking ankle videos. They have incorrectly taught younger players that this is what really matters. Think true basketball IQ is taught at the College level. When kids still are capable of listening and coaches preach team concepts. Once these players get to the NBA it all becomes about themselves and padding stats to get big contracts. Coaches in the NBA also expect players to know all the basic skills. They have to focus on winning first and foremost. Think this is why there are so many high level NBA pros that just don't know much about basic basketball concepts.
I was lucky to play under my dad who had many years of college coaching experience. Hated when he called out making the wrong play despite having good results. However, appreciated it later on.
Think several of the players we have can get to next level learning basic basketball IQ.
Reason why I have always felt guys like LBJ, Magic, Bird, MJ where at a different level. All had the ability, skills but more importantly all had high level of bball IQ.

Damn Hofstra, this post makes you sound old as hell. LOL Next thing you know you will be screaming at those kids to get off your damn lawn and turn down that 'crap' music.

All joking aside, once collegiate coaches started getting paid like rock stars, I lost a lot of respect for the college game. To me it seems to be a very exploitive business model. I'm sure this does not include your father who I'm guessing loved the game and was more interested in helping young men grow. Sadly, the Pitinos and Caliparis of the world ruined it for most of the good guys.

Lol. I knew I was old when I could no longer dunk and it hurt trying.

Agree with a lot of what you said. The college game was the top learning ground for a lot of players. Egos were not massaged. You learned how to be a team player regardless of your individual
ability. The NCAA has been a victim of what the NBA is. Players come in for one year and coaches hope they can get them an extra year by being easy on them. The goal of developing kids has evaporated and only goal now is about winning while the good players are there
Also agree how the NCAA uses and abuses their athletes. The amount of money they make for their programs and amounts paid to coaches makes it hard to root for kids to stay in school.

Still feel that there are a lot of coaches that develop their players. Jim Boeheim is one of many.
Problem is, as mentioned, the good players are not there long enough to learn anything. Will only get worse once they are allowed to go from HS. When I train some of my players, I mention how a player who learns the fundamentals of basketball, reads defenses and studies offensive concepts can have a huge edge on those that don't. Trying to think of high level Chris Paul/LBJ type IQs amongst the young coming up players and can't seem to think of many. Liked LaMelo for that but have not watched much of him lately.

EwingsGlass wrote:

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:

fishmike wrote:when think about the best version possible of Cam what is it? A long rangy multipositional defender who hit shots both in the half court and is a monster in the open floor. That's the version we got last night. Nobody is perfect but what we got from him on both ends of the ball was a huge plus.

A consistent shot maker and he's something between Kris Middleton and Tayshaun Prince especially playing under Thibs he's gonna defend every possession or lost his minutes. When he's missing shots you see his downside which is more Frank Ntilikina.

Fournier is an established commodity and he will get minutes. However after that when it comes to Grimes/IQ/Cam that should be a "cream rising to the top" situation and nothing more. Cam just turned 23 years old. Grimes/Reddish/IQ are all the same age. Everyone knows Cam came out too early, has self importance issues and some bad habits but he's also got the most upside of all 3 based on physical tools alone.

I think IQ ends out of rotation and Rose/Cam/Grimes/Obi/Hart are the back side of a 9-10 man rotation

Knicks certainly have a lot of different combinations team can go with.

I don't think that happens. Thibs likes IQ. I think ultimately a trade will need to happen to consolidate pieces.

The consolidation trade is also my thought. I think 10 games is treated as extended training camp with Grimes and IQ camp battling for minutes. After that, another 10 to see what we have. Then, between 21 and the trade deadline, we try to consolidate pieces.

Hopefully something similar and less costly comes along

BRIGGS wrote:We got the same exact sht back. Not a fail but rather a nothing. He’s not gonna fit in and he won’t be happy. See if we can swap him for something down the line like a2028 draft pick second rd.

You still sore, Briggs?

I give you all the credit for the turnaround!

OjilEye wrote:Watching summer league Knox I would've never in a million years have thought his ceiling would be that low. But it's true.

Summer league knox was special.

Philc1 wrote:I wonder if Rose could try to lock up Cam now on a 3 year extension at reasonable money like about $15 mil per.

https://hoopshype.com/2022/10/15/cam-red...

Philc, some of us read a lot of stuff. Hoopshype for 2 min a day gives you lots of stuff. COver page of UK often copies the important stuff.

You must have missed this. When you pretend you know shit, and many of us read otherwise its a bad look for you.
So in an act of kindness I offer you this tip and a link.

Most of us fill in and inform each other. We all like to look smart. Some are better at it than others.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:I wonder if Rose could try to lock up Cam now on a 3 year extension at reasonable money like about $15 mil per.

https://hoopshype.com/2022/10/15/cam-red...

Philc, some of us read a lot of stuff. Hoopshype for 2 min a day gives you lots of stuff. COver page of UK often copies the important stuff.

You must have missed this. When you pretend you know shit, and many of us read otherwise its a bad look for you.
So in an act of kindness I offer you this tip and a link.

Most of us fill in and inform each other. We all like to look smart. Some are better at it than others.

The link says he won’t sign an extension before the season opener. Can you at least try to read a link before you cut and paste?

Philc1 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:I wonder if Rose could try to lock up Cam now on a 3 year extension at reasonable money like about $15 mil per.

https://hoopshype.com/2022/10/15/cam-red...

Philc, some of us read a lot of stuff. Hoopshype for 2 min a day gives you lots of stuff. COver page of UK often copies the important stuff.

You must have missed this. When you pretend you know shit, and many of us read otherwise its a bad look for you.
So in an act of kindness I offer you this tip and a link.

Most of us fill in and inform each other. We all like to look smart. Some are better at it than others.

The link says he won’t sign an extension before the season opener. Can you at least try to read a link before you cut and paste?

The deadline for extension was the 17th. After that, he becomes ineligible until after the season. You want to lock him up now.
Of course you do. After a few good games? How daring.
He is restricted. We can both set the market price and match a higher one if it gets to that.

Philc1 wrote:I wonder if Rose could try to lock up Cam now on a 3 year extension at reasonable money like about $15 mil per.

Rose will probably wait for the 5th game and his 40th minute to make that important decision. Smh

Hawks and Knicks are building a real rivalry.
I want to crush that team every time we play them.

nyvector16 wrote:I would love to see Reddish start in our games against Atlanta….
Just to rub it in…

Hawks and Knicks are building a real rivalry.
I want to crush that team every time we play them.

Trae Young’s bald spot is a popular Halloween costume

foosballnick wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:

SupremeCommander wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Reddish was a risk worth taking but it's still early. He hasn't earned a rotation spot but it's a long season and he will get an opportunity at some point so we'll see.

I disagree with this 'side of the debate' that 'he was worth the risk.' No, he wasn't. He was a known malcontent in Atlanta. Thibs never wanted him. There is no skill that he has that adds to depth of the team. Either by being good at something, or adding something unique to the roster. He was just drafted high, that's it

As you were saying….

Look, the debate is whether Cam was worth “the gamble.” One I call small potatoes - the useless Knox and a mid first or more likely two seconds. His performance tonight bears out the talent that is there. Not saying he will be an all star but yeah, worth the “risk.”

hey, where I'm from, throwing out small potatoes just because it suits you is wasteful and abhorrent... but maybe you come from a plae where you get everything in excess and for free

Not "worth the gamble" implies that the risks outweigh the potential benefits. When you are in the process of building / re-building would seem to make sense that to drive some success in roster assets you have to buy low and sell high. Cam and a 2nd rounder were obtained for an expiring Knox as well as what very likely may be 2 second rounders. So essentially the net will be

Knox and a 2nd Rounder for Cam.

Just not understanding how this is wasteful and abhorrent?

It's more of the pick that became Kai Jones, pick 19 ?, Knox for Can and a second rounder. Still worthwhile risk.

I view the trade last year with the Hornets as separate and not seeing why anyone would by tying the connected risk back to Cam. For whatever their reasons, the Knicks traded with Hornets on draft night - July 29, 2021....exchanging #19 for heavily protected future First Rounder. They did not make the trade Knox-Cam trade until Jan 2022. It was a completely separate move. Pondering the "what-if" about Kai Jones is a completely separate conversation/debate and has little to do with the risk of acquiring Cam.

KnickDanger wrote:I think this was a good trade 🙂

my defense of the trade was that Reddish flaws and all was still a young prospect and a pick that might not convey is no guarantee of anything. Knox had no trade value and the protected pick we gave up was in the future and likely you end up with a similar type player but still needs time.

reddish is far from out of the woods as reaching his goals of a nice extension but he has bought into Thibs way that if your not scoring you damn well betting be doing other good things! The opportunity was there and rather than make a weak trade Thibs gave him the opportunity which Im sure earned not on YouTube videos, but over the summer and in camp.
"Thibs does not develop yoot". This fallacy perhaps can be put to bed now. Knicks brand of development does not throw yoot to just play and get experience. They play with vets, and are held to a standard. Tough love.
There are different ways to do it. Some take longer, some succeed, some fail. Mostly its the talent. WE have Duke, Villanova, and Kentucky guys now rostered. Guys that were top HS prospects and came from high end programs. Winning programs. We never did this before. Guys with good work ethic and been vetted prior as well.

All good, but we still a .500 team and that might be our ceiling for now.

Nalod wrote:

KnickDanger wrote:I think this was a good trade 🙂

my defense of the trade was that Reddish flaws and all was still a young prospect and a pick that might not convey is no guarantee of anything. Knox had no trade value and the protected pick we gave up was in the future and likely you end up with a similar type player but still needs time.

reddish is far from out of the woods as reaching his goals of a nice extension but he has bought into Thibs way that if your not scoring you damn well betting be doing other good things! The opportunity was there and rather than make a weak trade Thibs gave him the opportunity which Im sure earned not on YouTube videos, but over the summer and in camp.
"Thibs does not develop yoot". This fallacy perhaps can be put to bed now. Knicks brand of development does not throw yoot to just play and get experience. They play with vets, and are held to a standard. Tough love.
There are different ways to do it. Some take longer, some succeed, some fail. Mostly its the talent. WE have Duke, Villanova, and Kentucky guys now rostered. Guys that were top HS prospects and came from high end programs. Winning programs. We never did this before. Guys with good work ethic and been vetted prior as well.

All good, but we still a .500 team and that might be our ceiling for now.

This. You are right on point. Thibs development sure looks fine now. Cam being the latest and the most blatant case study. Given his draft position he was deemed as pretty much a bust. I say that because he did show flashes for Atlanta and they shipped him out for a bag of doughnuts. I like how Thibs does his development. Obi is another great example. So is IQ. The only guy whose development is in question is Deuce at this point. Everyone else has been brought up quite nicely. Except Frank. That one is still the one that got away