Knicks · Those who wanted to salary dump Randle… (page 9)

SergioNYK wrote:I give Randle his kudos so far for his resurrection season but I still do not trust him. Let's see how he plays in the play-in and hopefully playoffs.

Who do you trust besides JB and that we can get?

EwingsGlass wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

martin wrote:Shot profiles tell you a lot:

 		2P 	0-3 	3-10 	10-16 	16-3P 	3P
Randle 		.560	.242	.152	.107	.060	.440
Sabonis 	.892	.475	.305	.053	.060	.108	

It tells me that Sabonis finishes at the rim better (0-3), shoots more mid-range shots and less 3pt shots - except it says his 3pt % is 40% so not sure why it says 10.8%. Randle shoots better from 10-23 feet clearly. Randle is a high volume shooter (Sabonis is not) and when he's on it's great... but when he's off we're in trouble since he shoots a lot. I believe we need our offense to run less reliant on any one player - especially if that one player is streaky. That's why I made the point about thinking the offense needs to adjust.

Our team's streakiness this season has mostly been about defensive effort but I would think Randle's up and down shooting at a high clip probably doesn't help when things are not going well. You could say the same about RJ btw...

So if Randle is here for the long haul we still need to adjust the offensive scheme and shift more responsibility to other players IMO. Brunson has done great and RJ began to show signs before the injury... but not sure we don't need to change one of RJ or Randle to really improve in any way. I also don't think adding a Lavine-level player will help much as Thibs seems unlikely to play a new defensively challenged player with this existing roster. He gives Randle a pass, and RJ too. Mitch, Grimes and Brunson have to play so it's eventually going to circle back to needing more from either/both Randle and RJ.

I think the shot chart comment is intended to point out that you are replacing an outside shooter with and inside shooter. But we already have a bit of inside shooters in the starting lineup.

Brunson (48% of shots 0-10 ft)
Barrett (60% of shots 0-10 ft)
Sabonis (78% of shots 0-10 ft)
Robinson (99% of shots 0-10 ft)

All of these guys would be vying for the same small patch of the floor.

Randle works a bit better for us, only taking 39% of shots in the 0-10 ft category. Now, I'd still like him to increase that. 56 from 0-3 and 44 from 3 works for me in an ideal world. But in the Sabonis discussion, you can visualize Sabonis collapsing the floor even further with his inside play. I don't think he works next to Robinson.

Good post. Mentioned how Randle is probably at his best in the area that is already congested but has done what needs to be done to stay by stripe.
I really do not want to give up on RJ, but he may be the one clog that needs to adjust his efficiency from deep as well. Feel Randle just needs to take open threes and not force things. Knowing he is not a high percentage three point shooter.

Question for me, as you pointed out, who can fit better with others preference, according to chart, , that also has same intensity/influence down low and rebounding. While having same level of contract.

jskinny35 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Panos wrote:0k, now that we've moved past the ridiculous proposition of dumping Randle's contract or trading him for a second rounder. Here's a comp:
Randle for D. Sabonis
Who says no and why?

What’s your source, that says D.Sabonis is his comp?

I haven't moved past it yet btw... I would take Sabonis as he can give you some minutes at the C spot. Do you think the King's would give up Sabonis for Randle? I doubt it and that is somewhat telling IMO.

Sabonis is real good Good contract. Rebounds. Gifted offensively.
Lauri also real good. Young, 7 footer. Can score from everywhere. Have no idea why Bulls and Cavs have up on him? From what can guess it is that they both have trouble playing defense and can be seen as soft. Which would be a problem in Knick land. However, I would take them. Low risk/cost and produce.
But they are not available? So kinda of mute point.
As I have said so many times, the trade Randle crowd ignore an important part of wanting someone traded. Which is WHO can we get in return or to replace him?? Randle is playing at All Star level, signed to reasonable contract and most importantly, seems to want to be here. Until someone offers a better piece at equal value, he is fine at being a guy that gets rebounds and can bully guys down low. Anyone expecting him to singlehandedly carry us deep into the playoffs is just not being realistic.

Nalod wrote:Lauri is a bit of a suprise this season. He is only 24? It takes time.
True genius is getting guys BEFORE they break out.
While not universally accepted, Randle is that type of player. He came to us as a free agent. THe price was low.

Lauri and KP were in the same boat early in their careers. Both missed a lot of games. It was mostly about being able to stay on the court. Hard to develop from the injured list.

HofstraBBall wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:

martin wrote:Shot profiles tell you a lot:

 		2P 	0-3 	3-10 	10-16 	16-3P 	3P
Randle 		.560	.242	.152	.107	.060	.440
Sabonis 	.892	.475	.305	.053	.060	.108	

It tells me that Sabonis finishes at the rim better (0-3), shoots more mid-range shots and less 3pt shots - except it says his 3pt % is 40% so not sure why it says 10.8%. Randle shoots better from 10-23 feet clearly. Randle is a high volume shooter (Sabonis is not) and when he's on it's great... but when he's off we're in trouble since he shoots a lot. I believe we need our offense to run less reliant on any one player - especially if that one player is streaky. That's why I made the point about thinking the offense needs to adjust.

Our team's streakiness this season has mostly been about defensive effort but I would think Randle's up and down shooting at a high clip probably doesn't help when things are not going well. You could say the same about RJ btw...

So if Randle is here for the long haul we still need to adjust the offensive scheme and shift more responsibility to other players IMO. Brunson has done great and RJ began to show signs before the injury... but not sure we don't need to change one of RJ or Randle to really improve in any way. I also don't think adding a Lavine-level player will help much as Thibs seems unlikely to play a new defensively challenged player with this existing roster. He gives Randle a pass, and RJ too. Mitch, Grimes and Brunson have to play so it's eventually going to circle back to needing more from either/both Randle and RJ.

I think the shot chart comment is intended to point out that you are replacing an outside shooter with and inside shooter. But we already have a bit of inside shooters in the starting lineup.

Brunson (48% of shots 0-10 ft)
Barrett (60% of shots 0-10 ft)
Sabonis (78% of shots 0-10 ft)
Robinson (99% of shots 0-10 ft)

All of these guys would be vying for the same small patch of the floor.

Randle works a bit better for us, only taking 39% of shots in the 0-10 ft category. Now, I'd still like him to increase that. 56 from 0-3 and 44 from 3 works for me in an ideal world. But in the Sabonis discussion, you can visualize Sabonis collapsing the floor even further with his inside play. I don't think he works next to Robinson.

Good post. Mentioned how Randle is probably at his best in the area that is already congested but has done what needs to be done to stay by stripe.
I really do not want to give up on RJ, but he may be the one clog that needs to adjust his efficiency from deep as well. Feel Randle just needs to take open threes and not force things. Knowing he is not a high percentage three point shooter.

Question for me, as you pointed out, who can fit better with others preference, according to chart, , that also has same intensity/influence down low and rebounding. While having same level of contract.

The Barrett issue is a question of "which Barrett".

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/1629628...

October Barrett should get benched.

November Barrett is sandwiched between Fournier and Reddish.

December Barrett is pretty amazing.

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

Those of us who saw past short term hate knew Randle had a history of good production.
Hope he keeps it up but more importantly, continues to improve.

https://dailyknicks.com/2023/01/14/4-rea...
MOst of us read enough to understand the empty content of this. Some will be tainted by the suggestion thinking “Well randle will most certainly revert to last years Randle after all, nothing ever good happens to the knicks!”
For that, lets just say we are a damaged lot and prone to think this way. Thus, we must work hard to actually enjoy what is unfolding before us without doom and gloom. Its not easy.

jskinny35 wrote:It's a long season - you're posting this after the first game - which we lost?

Randle played well tonight... but how about we see at least 5 games (with us winning some of them) before you defend your crush.

You needed to see @ least 5 games @ that level?

😆

Well.

It's now been FIFTY (50) GAMES and Julius Randle is STILL playing @ both an All-Star level + an All-NBA level + playing better than even his 2020-2021 All-Star level.

24.8 Points Per Game (Career High).
10.9 Rebounds Per Game (Career High).
4.0 Assists Per Game.
.461 FG% (Career High as a Knick).
21.2 Player Efficiency Rating (Career High).
+
Playing awesome Defense too.

Well.

Looks like Panos has every right to DEFEND HIS "CRUSH".

NYKMentality wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:It's a long season - you're posting this after the first game - which we lost?

Randle played well tonight... but how about we see at least 5 games (with us winning some of them) before you defend your crush.

You needed to see @ least 5 games @ that level?

😆

Well.

It's now been FIFTY (50) GAMES and Julius Randle is STILL playing @ both an All-Star level + an All-NBA level + playing better than even his 2020-2021 All-Star level.

24.8 Points Per Game (Career High).
10.9 Rebounds Per Game (Career High).
4.0 Assists Per Game.
.461 FG% (Career High as a Knick).
21.2 Player Efficiency Rating (Career High).
+
Playing awesome Defense too.

Well.

Looks like Panos has every right to DEFEND HIS "CRUSH".

All this post tells me is that you are too close to the fire with Randle. It's okay to love your favorite player... just don't love him at the expense that you can't accept opposing viewpoints.

If this is impossible for you - you can always start Ultimaterandle.com :)

jskinny35 wrote:

NYKMentality wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:It's a long season - you're posting this after the first game - which we lost?

Randle played well tonight... but how about we see at least 5 games (with us winning some of them) before you defend your crush.

You needed to see @ least 5 games @ that level?

Well.

It's now been FIFTY (50) GAMES and Julius Randle is STILL playing @ both an All-Star level + an All-NBA level + playing better than even his 2020-2021 All-Star level.

24.8 Points Per Game (Career High).
10.9 Rebounds Per Game (Career High).
4.0 Assists Per Game.
.461 FG% (Career High as a Knick).
21.2 Player Efficiency Rating (Career High).
+
Playing awesome Defense too.

Well.

Looks like Panos has every right to DEFEND HIS CRUSH

All this post tells me is that you are too close to the fire with Randle. It's okay to love your favorite player... just don't love him at the expense that you can't accept opposing viewpoints.

If this is impossible for you - you can always start Ultimaterandle.com :)

For like the millionth time. It's not about some love for Randle. Its not that i would never trade him . It's about the moronic constant posts last summer to salary dump him or trade him for a second rounder. Horrible horrible armchair GMing!
Trade your best player for nothing?
Gimme a trade that nets me an Allstar and I'll respect that.

@ the end of the day he's already the 3rd most dominant Knick throughout the previous 30+ years and only behind the likes of #33 Patrick Ewing and alongside of Carmelo Anthony.

I'm sorry; but Julius Randle is here for the long-term (5+ years, at least).

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

I think you should become the one to "Man Up" Panos, because I know you're being disingenuous/hypocritical by creating this fake support thread of Julius Randle.

You think I forgot how you crapped all over Julius Randle (alongside of mostly everyone else) within my "leave Julius Randle Alone" thread?

Well, I didn't.

(See below).

Panos wrote:

Rookie wrote:Great, the Knicks are a dysfunctional clown show again. On a night where the Knicks featured ball movement and team play, Randle and his 2 points becomes the story.

Exactly, nice to make NYC even less attractive to Free Agents. SMH

You were harping all over Julius Randle because of a 2 point game while also acting and pretending as if Julius Randle (himself) would make NYC an even "less attractive place" for Free Agents.

Well, thankfully Jalen Brunson didn't listen to you and/or believe what you were typing; now did he?

(I'm like an 🐘 Panos and I haven't forgotten how you refused to have Julius Randle's back as others kicked him while he was down).

If we're gonna be real and stand on our words? Be all the way real about it (don't go playing both sides of the fence man).

NYKMentality wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

I think you should become the one to "Man Up" Panos, because I know you're being disingenuous/hypocritical by creating this fake support thread of Julius Randle.

You think I forgot how you crapped all over Julius Randle (alongside of mostly everyone else) within my "leave Julius Randle Alone" thread?

Well, I didn't.

(See below).

Panos wrote:

Rookie wrote:Great, the Knicks are a dysfunctional clown show again. On a night where the Knicks featured ball movement and team play, Randle and his 2 points becomes the story.

Exactly, nice to make NYC even less attractive to Free Agents. SMH

You were harping all over Julius Randle because of a 2 point game while also acting and pretending as if Julius Randle (himself) would make NYC an even "less attractive place" for Free Agents.

Well, thankfully Jalen Brunson didn't listen to you and/or believe what you were typing; now did he?

(I'm like an 🐘 Panos and I haven't forgotten how you refused to have Julius Randle's back as others kicked him while he was down).

If we're gonna be real and stand on our words? Be all the way real about it (don't go playing both sides of the fence man).

This happens way too much on this site. Thank you NYK for bringing that to light.

Instead of harping on the past, I believe the future is much much brighter. Come out the dark fellas, we don’t have to hide anymore or drown in historical fan emotions.

If I said thumbs down Randle would be in the 3 pt contest next season, everybody would call me crazy. What an f’ing turnaround Randle has made. Some will credit thibs. Others like me will credit Brunson. But ultimately the credit goes to Randle for his hard work he’s put in and the results is proof.

I was also hard on our big 3 but even with RJ shooting struggles, I like the development path he’s on. And josh hart addition gives RJ more time to figure it out. This the best knick team we’ve had in a VERY LONG TIME. Don’t waist this moment on HE SAY SHE SAY.

Go Knicks

Nalod wrote:Jules first knmick to record a 40pt, 15 reb game since Ewing.

I am sorry, but even though statistically Randle is nowadays comparable to Ewing, I still do not see him as the same level of a player. With Ewing you always knew he would get his, and he would find a way to keep the team in the game, you looked to him as the player who can best get a bucket when you need one. With Randle, his scoring still feels a bit like a crapshoot: will them threes go in or not?
If anything, to me the player on his way to be the most "Ewing-esque" is JB, but let's see how consistent he is going to be over the course of several seasons.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Nalod wrote:Jules first knmick to record a 40pt, 15 reb game since Ewing.

I am sorry, but even though statistically Randle is nowadays comparable to Ewing, I still do not see him as the same level of a player. With Ewing you always knew he would get his, and he would find a way to keep the team in the game, you looked to him as the player who can best get a bucket when you need one. With Randle, his scoring still feels a bit like a crapshoot: will them threes go in or not?
If anything, to me the player on his way to be the most "Ewing-esque" is JB, but let's see how consistent he is going to be over the course of several seasons.

I do wonder if that has to do with the type of shots and differing styles between the 90's and now. Flatly, Ewing did not shoot 3point shots, and it's noticeable from Randle cause in the modern game, you need to shoot those types of shots.

Their 2pt shooting numbers are within distance of each other? Randle's eFG% are better than Ewing's because of the 3pt shot.

Nalod wrote:Lauri is a bit of a suprise this season. He is only 24? It takes time.
True genius is getting guys BEFORE they break out.
While not universally accepted, Randle is that type of player. He came to us as a free agent. THe price was low.

Situation also plays a part. The Bulls only saw Lauri as a spot up shooter. He also had some injuries that slowed his development. The Cavs tried Laurie as their "three". It kinda worked because of Mobley's defensive versatility, but it was still a awkward fit. I listened to a Lauri interview (might've been Lowe or Reddick's podcast) where he credited his time in Cleveland for helping experiment with parts of his game. But a lot of credit has to go to Hardy and his schemes.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

Nalod wrote:Jules first knmick to record a 40pt, 15 reb game since Ewing.

I am sorry, but even though statistically Randle is nowadays comparable to Ewing, I still do not see him as the same level of a player. With Ewing you always knew he would get his, and he would find a way to keep the team in the game, you looked to him as the player who can best get a bucket when you need one. With Randle, his scoring still feels a bit like a crapshoot: will them threes go in or not?
If anything, to me the player on his way to be the most "Ewing-esque" is JB, but let's see how consistent he is going to be over the course of several seasons.

Don't be sorry. I posted a fact and we all digest it different. I never said Randle was better or on par with Ewing. Patrick is top 75 all time player and was amazing for a long ass time. We love to argue. Lebron vs. Jordan. Russell vs Wilt or Kareem, Maple vs Black Mamba (LOL!!)
What does it say? First the pace of things are much different now. Not sure Ewing and his knees could have played as long as he did. Remember by 1996 Pat was slowing it down to the chagrin of coach Nelson. Drove him crazy!!!
That was then, this is now.
Randle is a better version of late in career LJ. Early LG was a sort of Zion-light/Randle bruiser who could fly. Bad Back Larry had a good outside stroke. Randle is a taller and healthier version without the explosive leap (Young Larry was amazin!!).

NYKMentality wrote:

Panos wrote:Man Up!
24/11/6/2
Still the best player on this team.

I think you should become the one to "Man Up" Panos, because I know you're being disingenuous/hypocritical by creating this fake support thread of Julius Randle.

You think I forgot how you crapped all over Julius Randle (alongside of mostly everyone else) within my "leave Julius Randle Alone" thread?

Well, I didn't.

(See below).

Panos wrote:

Rookie wrote:Great, the Knicks are a dysfunctional clown show again. On a night where the Knicks featured ball movement and team play, Randle and his 2 points becomes the story.

Exactly, nice to make NYC even less attractive to Free Agents. SMH

You were harping all over Julius Randle because of a 2 point game while also acting and pretending as if Julius Randle (himself) would make NYC an even "less attractive place" for Free Agents.

Well, thankfully Jalen Brunson didn't listen to you and/or believe what you were typing; now did he?

(I'm like an 🐘 Panos and I haven't forgotten how you refused to have Julius Randle's back as others kicked him while he was down).

If we're gonna be real and stand on our words? Be all the way real about it (don't go playing both sides of the fence man).