Knicks · Start Quickley at SG (page 3)

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I compare IQ to Starks because both guys had infectious energy off the bench. His shooting may not be there every night and it isn’t but the energy he brings coming off the bench is an intangible that other teams see and that’s why GMs have been calling us about him. We can continue to start Cam or Grimes along with RJ at the wing positions

IQ was a gym rat, Starks was a gym rat... not a perfect comp but I certainly see similarities, especially relating to personality and streakiness

what makes a Starks comp interesting here, to me anyway, is that Pat Riley would have started IQ to get him out of his funk. He would do that with Starks. Riley would give Starks a show-of-faith where others might not have gone with him and (outside of Game 7) it was always rewarded

all that said, I do not necessarily want him to start, because people will fixate on what he does NOT bring to the table, instead of focusing on the good that he already brought. Lou Williams is a great player who always seemed to bounce around once he made the other teams' starting lineup, and I think Lou is IQ's best case

SupremeCommander wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

blkexec wrote:

Philc1 wrote:Like him better as a 6th man

I think IQ can be groomed to be an NBA starter. And before we signed JB, I would've been happy with IQ or Rose starting. Unless there was a no brainer PG available. Don't get me wrong, love JB and happy he's a knick. But we have more problems than a scoring PG with limited defense can solve. If anything JB provides stability at a position we lacked stability for years. Thats why we drafted IQ and Deuce (2 players who played PG/SG in college). And as we can see, both are providing great minutes that contributes to wins.

Scoring wasn't a need for us, but clutch scoring in crunch time is needed and JB can provide that eventually or I hope. With our current team, we needed a pass first 2-way PG since we have a team full of offensive scorers. But now we have JB, who adds more offensive punch, but highlights our team weakness at the defensive end. We can move some of these other scorers for players are picks down the road. I prefer picks so that Thibs can use his tight 9-man rotation which looks like it's producing wins. So I'm sure Thibs will continue that strategy, based on history. Case in point, Cam, Rose and we know EF.....All capable and healthy guards who never left the bench.

Just shows you how crowded our guard rotation is. It was crowded before JB came on board. Thibs sat EF, Cam and Rose....And we won. So if you don't know Thibs by now, he's stuck in his ways, when his ways produces W's. Unless Leon Rose and others stepped in and said, we need to play Cam more. Otherwise, I'm looking forward to see Deuce gain some offensive confidence, because this team needs his defensive intensity.

I compare IQ to Starks because both guys had infectious energy off the bench. His shooting may not be there every night and it isn’t but the energy he brings coming off the bench is an intangible that other teams see and that’s why GMs have been calling us about him. We can continue to start Cam or Grimes along with RJ at the wing positions

IQ was a gym rat, Starks was a gym rat... not a perfect comp but I certainly see similarities, especially relating to personality and streakiness

what makes a Starks comp interesting here, to me anyway, is that Pat Riley would have started IQ to get him out of his funk. He would do that with Starks. Riley would give Starks a show-of-faith where others might not have gone with him and (outside of Game 7) it was always rewarded

all that said, I do not necessarily want him to start, because people will fixate on what he does NOT bring to the table, instead of focusing on the good that he already brought. Lou Williams is a great player who always seemed to bounce around once he made the other teams' starting lineup, and I think Lou is IQ's best case

Lou Williams would be nice! And I think it's a fairly good hope/goal. I just hope we retain a player so when he is still plugging away in his 30s, we can say he's always been a knick.

What Riles would do 25 years ago? Knicks would not lose what starks brings to have Hubert Davis or Monty Williams has.
Starks was the starter once he earned his spot. IQ rightfully is behind Brunson and Grimes brings something more typical of a SG. Im good to have him off the bench and if he is “Streaky” and doing well, do what Thibs does and leaves him in the game. But this year he has Brunson.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:your fixation for "Thibs holding Randle accountable" is weird. Whatever your expectation is... well it's time to let that go.

You want to see Randle treated like EF? You are in a make believe world.

No I don’t want Randle to be treated like EF. I want Thibs to treat Randle like everybody else. Give Randle the quick hook when he’s not playing defense. Just like he’s quick to give Obi the hook. Now I’ve said this before. Thibs changes on you quick. So as I’m typing he’s probably changing right now. But for example, When Randle comes in the game and the lead goes from double to single digits, it’s due to Randles man scoring everytime he complains to the refs, would love to be a fly on the wall between thibs and Randle. Randles yelling at the refs at IQ at Grimes, yet his defense is average to bad sometimes. That really irked me.

I’ve blamed the FO more times than any knick fan in this forum. I blame the FO for building a team around RJ and Randle. I blame the FO for drafting a back PF at pick#8. We could’ve traded down twice and picked up a backup forward with additional picks. That was and continues to be a fail.

Personally I don’t think Randle is worth it. Randle has the personality to be a #1 option but the reality is he’s more of a #2 or #3 but thinks he’s #1. I don’t think he can adapt to being #3. Same with RJ. He thinks he’s #1 but really he’s the 3rd option on a good team right now.

But I don’t want to sound like an RJ or Randle basher. Or even thibs basher. I’m just in reality mode. Turn us into a playoff team by adding playoff talent or sell the vets and get a high pick.

If RJ and Randle is still your building block, we will always be mediocre.

This is not the local Y league or even college ball.

You can’t give a guy like Randle a quick hook like you are talking about and survive.

What does giving the quick hook to Randle and Obi at the same time look like? They each play 5 minute shifts and then what? You just have nothing after that.

You aren’t operating in NBA reality, what you are taking about is high school basketball.

I'm getting sick of watching Randle argue. Maybe it's improved, but it seems like a constant battle with him.

And yea, this isn't college- but look at what Pop does with his team- he will yank his guys to make a point.

And maybe Pop wouldn't allow a player like Randle to develop the bad habits he has. And maybe that is what we want.

FO and staff inherited Randle give or take. He blew up in his first year. I'm sure any coach or FO hates the types of things he does.

Same with Kyrie and his antics.

Sometimes things are just inevitable and you deal with them as best you can.

If Obi was much better, dealing with Randle would be much easier. The Knicks don't have too much long term leverage over Randle, that's just reality of a lot of players on all sorts of teams.

Knicks trade scenarios: What I’m hearing about Immanuel Quickley, Cam Reddish and Evan Fournier
Excerpt:

Eliminating Fournier’s salary from next season’s books wouldn’t do much for 2023 flexibility. Let’s say, hypothetically, that the Knicks found a way to flip him for an expiring contract; they would still have to shed more money to create significant cap room for next summer. They have eight other players with guaranteed contracts for 2023-24 (Jalen Brunson, Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Mitchell Robinson, Isaiah Hartenstein, Obi Toppin, Quentin Grimes and Quickley), which pushes them up against the projected salary cap.

They also have communicated that they are willing to attach Quickley or Reddish to Fournier to make a trade work, league sources said.

martin wrote:

blkexec wrote:

fishmike wrote:your fixation for "Thibs holding Randle accountable" is weird. Whatever your expectation is... well it's time to let that go.

You want to see Randle treated like EF? You are in a make believe world.

No I don’t want Randle to be treated like EF. I want Thibs to treat Randle like everybody else. Give Randle the quick hook when he’s not playing defense. Just like he’s quick to give Obi the hook. Now I’ve said this before. Thibs changes on you quick. So as I’m typing he’s probably changing right now. But for example, When Randle comes in the game and the lead goes from double to single digits, it’s due to Randles man scoring everytime he complains to the refs, would love to be a fly on the wall between thibs and Randle. Randles yelling at the refs at IQ at Grimes, yet his defense is average to bad sometimes. That really irked me.

I’ve blamed the FO more times than any knick fan in this forum. I blame the FO for building a team around RJ and Randle. I blame the FO for drafting a back PF at pick#8. We could’ve traded down twice and picked up a backup forward with additional picks. That was and continues to be a fail.

Personally I don’t think Randle is worth it. Randle has the personality to be a #1 option but the reality is he’s more of a #2 or #3 but thinks he’s #1. I don’t think he can adapt to being #3. Same with RJ. He thinks he’s #1 but really he’s the 3rd option on a good team right now.

But I don’t want to sound like an RJ or Randle basher. Or even thibs basher. I’m just in reality mode. Turn us into a playoff team by adding playoff talent or sell the vets and get a high pick.

If RJ and Randle is still your building block, we will always be mediocre.

This is not the local Y league or even college ball.

You can’t give a guy like Randle a quick hook like you are talking about and survive.

What does giving the quick hook to Randle and Obi at the same time look like? They each play 5 minute shifts and then what? You just have nothing after that.

You aren’t operating in NBA reality, what you are taking about is high school basketball.

You sure? I’ve played in Y leagues and there are better shooters on the bench than RJ. There are better defenders on the bench than Randle.

And thank you Franco for the reply. I agree with your pop comparison and didn’t even think about that. I remember he sat the entire starting 5 during an nba game.

Martin, I’m starting to think you like arguing the opposite of anything I say just to argue, which is cool. And I respectfully disagree with you on this point, which is also cool.

Maybe thibs should treat these guys like the ymca. Maybe they will give a better effort on defense if he did.

Your thinking is exactly why Randle has a professional whisperer and he should be moved. Not even thibs has the balls to yank Randle or the entire starting 5. I always respected pop as a coach and that’s part of the reason why I didnt mind thibs being here. Old school tuff love regardless of your title or salary. So I disagree with your y league comment. That’s exactly what they probably need. Some y league treatment. Thanks for the idea. I wasn’t thinking about that but thanks. Great idea.

Im sure Randle will have an all star performance tonight against his favorite team and fish / Randle fans will be back in the chat saying, “you sure u want to trade our best player”

It’s hilarious to hear half the fans want to trade him now. The other half say wait until his value is up. Then after he has a great game, we say “well maybe don’t trade this version”

We have to do something to bring consistency to this team and RJ and Randle as the lead players on this team are too inconsistent on both ends. Something has to change regarding long term success vs in season runs. Can RJ and Randle get us out of the first round? Can they get us to the first round? Seems like they are getting worse not better, regarding RJ. Randle seems to be in mid season Randle form with putting his energy into the refs like that’s going to improve his defense 😆. I’ll be ready to watch the show tonight. Knicks are my favorite soap opera. Never know what you will get.

GustavBahler wrote:Not bad for IQ's first start this season. Wasnt looked at in the first half and still got 20. Grimes will get his job back, but Im glad IQ got a chance to show what he can do as an SG.

Yeah, Mitch,IQ and RJ really showed up. Randle did his best, but was just outclassed. JB really needed to do better.

GustavBahler wrote:Not bad for IQ's first start this season. Wasnt looked at in the first half and still got 20. Grimes will get his job back, but Im glad IQ got a chance to show what he can do as an SG.

I have mixed feelings on IQ as a SG starter. But I'm looking at his defense. On offense, he's clearly a better player when his main focus is on scoring first. Thats more natural for him. Just not sure I like him next and JB together. Both undersized for their positions. Grimes at 6'4 is also undersized, but he plays bigger than his height. IQ is shorter and plays shorter. Some guys play tall like Deuce, because he has massive arm length. I think Marcus Smart might be another one. Rozier too. But I'm glad IQ found his shot. Glad he started and regained his confidence. Hopefully this will be a turn around for him and RJ who also had a great game on offense.

IQ is a two way player. Isnt as strong a defender as Grimes but he can get buckets, and keep the ball moving. Like to see IQ get a chance to start for a while, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yes, IQ can make a good 6th man, but I dont believe thats his ceiling.

GustavBahler wrote:

IQ is a two way player. Isnt as strong a defender as Grimes but he can get buckets, and keep the ball moving. Like to see IQ get a chance to start for a while, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yes, IQ can make a good 6th man, but I dont believe thats his ceiling.

Try him at SG? Sure, why not.

But doesn't that take away from our second unit? He is the only guy that scores in it.
Feel it also takes away from the freedom he has to shoot. Does it take away from IQs shoot? Since he will be contending with RJs,JBs and Randles attempts.

GustavBahler wrote:

IQ is a two way player. Isnt as strong a defender as Grimes but he can get buckets, and keep the ball moving. Like to see IQ get a chance to start for a while, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yes, IQ can make a good 6th man, but I dont believe thats his ceiling.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

IQ is a two way player. Isnt as strong a defender as Grimes but he can get buckets, and keep the ball moving. Like to see IQ get a chance to start for a while, if the opportunity presents itself.

Yes, IQ can make a good 6th man, but I dont believe thats his ceiling.

Yeah, Quickly is versatile enough where he can plug anywhere. I've said this before, but he reminds of Kirk Heinrich. I wouldn't have much of an issue if Thibs made that move and gave Grimes more offensive responsibility with the second unit. I'd probably wait until Obi comes back tho, because IQ is THE bench offense as of now.

Thats a good point about Obi. RJ has shown that he can help pick up the scoring slack, when another starter is having an off game. But not often. I dont see Grimes consistently putting up starting SG numbers over the course of a season. That could change of course. Still time.

Probably going to get some pushback, but if the FO didnt sign Brunson. I'd be posting about how Thibs should developing Grimes into the starting PG of the future. Much better candidate than Frank.

Of the three of them Brunson, Grimes, and Quickley. Grimes makes the best, the most precise passes, off the dribble. He can blow by defenders and find Mitch with a nifty wraparound pass. Some of his bounce passes really thread the needle.

Not suggesting he's a better PG than the other two right now. But I believe he has the skillset, and the size, to be better than both of them. In time. Grimes cant go on runs like JB, and IQ, but I believe he has the best balance of skills for that position.

cooch2584 wrote:Quick must start our 3 starters can score, mitch can rebound but we have a GAPPING HOLE at sg. This is what i call an idiot easy thing for thibs to see. We cant keep losing the first qt by 10 points and clawwing back the rest of the game.

I'm curious as to how much more slack Thibs gives Grimes before he relents and starts IQ or DDV? Also, how long before the FO starts leaning into the discussion?

cooch2584 wrote:Im just as curious to know why thibs has this much comfidence in grimes and we all wanna know wth ef did.

ef did not play defense. How do you not know this?

GustavBahler wrote:

cooch2584 wrote:Quick must start our 3 starters can score, mitch can rebound but we have a GAPPING HOLE at sg. This is what i call an idiot easy thing for thibs to see. We cant keep losing the first qt by 10 points and clawwing back the rest of the game.

I'm curious as to how much more slack Thibs gives Grimes before he relents and starts IQ or DDV? Also, how long before the FO starts leaning into the discussion?

Probably all year.