Knicks · Game thread: Knicks @ Suns 3:30pm! (page 3)
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BigDaddyG wrote:Some more of that "two-way" effort from our "best player."Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://twitter.com/BenRitholtzNBA/status/1594461709871288321?t=__FlJ7I_sFmrMFE40xOuQQ&s=19
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You did it big! Found another hater cut! And figured out our problem last night!
Btw, you want Randle to cover weak side and post? Box out both? You must play basketball.
Fyi. Real facts:
Other than Rose and JB we shot 18% from three.
Obi and IQ have hit ONE shot in last two games. Obi 0-9. (Three side boards)
RJ 27% from the field and Randle 36%. Only 21 points combined.
9 points combined from our main C signings.
Brunson a -22 (only 3 dimes) and RJ a -24 (only 2 dimes). (Obi -15 in just 16min(
Speaking of defense. Can you tell me what Obi was doing? He almost fell down deciding. Until he told a C to go cover a wing and let him drive right in front of him.
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See how that works. Iso anyone in a bad loss and you find a lot of defensive lapses.
Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.
Sure. When is he coming? 
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is only one and not first should on a long list of players we should dump
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.
The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.
Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.
So when you bring up Randle, this is what I see. The bigger picture. Not that he is such a good player.
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Randle is the person who thinks he is the best player on the team and also demands it in the way he plays. He is constantly at the heart of the offense and often times the core of the disease of what crumbles teams in the effort department on defense; most all guys on the Knicks are willing to move themselves, fight over and around picks as best they can, and yet Randle is the only one with highlights like the above. Grimes is literally SCREAMING and pointing at him to move, Randle literally just don't want to.
Maybe some other guys are shooting as well or whatnot, but that is just part of the game. The shit Randle pulls RUINS teams, and he is the heart and leader of that.
HofstraBBall wrote:The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team.
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Posted consistently? Hater narrative. My point.
Range? Do they leave him wide open at the 3 stripe?
Consistent. He has been averaging a double double since? You expected 30/10/10 at 50% click?
But again, you want to improve everything he can't do? Great. With who?
This is about Knicks for me. You?
Hater focus strong and makes it about ONE player.
Notice how you can't get off.
Mentioned many other things we need to improve and you stuck on Randle?
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Posted consistently? Hater narrative. My point.
Range? Do they leave him wide open at the 3 stripe?
Consistent. He has been averaging a double double since? You expected 30/10/10 at 50% click?
But again, you want to improve everything he can't do? Great. With who?This is about Knicks for me. You?
Hater focus strong and makes it about ONE player.
Notice how you can't get off.
Mentioned many other things we need to improve and you stuck on Randle?
I know, I know... It's all fake news and Commie propaganda. You know what? I don't what Randle averaging 30 & 10 because that would likely mean the offense is even more unwatchable. I'd like Randle to play more within himself with consistent effort. The thing that irks me the most about the clip I posted. He decides to stay in the paint, which is a bad decision, but it happens. Look at his effort for the defensive rebound. It's not that he didn't get the rebound. Look at his effort. It might be hard to do because there wasn't effort to begin with.
I'm stuck on Randle because often times he's the black hole on the court drawing everyone's attention.
On the bright side it was good to see Grimes play. He looked healthy and played well. Had a career high 8 assists! Looked liked the playmaker we saw in the preseason. As is the case with him he's gotta stay healthy! The talent is there!
Good to see Robinson back too but I hope it doesn't mean Sims is back on the bench out of the rotation. I'd actually play Sims over Hartenstein. Deuce also got some minutes after Rose got injured (like I knew he would eventually) and played well. Love his motor on defense! And good bounce back game by Brunson. Rare he has two bad games in a row.
2-2 on this trip. Win tonight and get revenge on OKC (unlikely) and its a successful trip and we go into Thanksgiving at 9-9.
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Posted consistently? Hater narrative. My point.
Range? Do they leave him wide open at the 3 stripe?
Consistent. He has been averaging a double double since? You expected 30/10/10 at 50% click?
But again, you want to improve everything he can't do? Great. With who?This is about Knicks for me. You?
Hater focus strong and makes it about ONE player.
Notice how you can't get off.
Mentioned many other things we need to improve and you stuck on Randle?
Not being a hater doesn't equate being in denial. Hate to me is primarily characterized by a desire (need?) to harp only on the negative and on specific personalities - obsessively. While ignoring positives and other factors. And then proposing stupid trade ideas just so they're gone.
And then move on to the next object of loathing. A strange phenomenon to my mind, but increasingly prevalent.
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
Fyi He said RJ, Randle and MR. Keep that focus bro .
To quote Knickdanger "Hate to me is primarily characterized by a desire (need?) to harp only on the negative and on specific personalities - obsessively."
You keep saying you are not all about being a Randle hater but have yet to bring up anything else about the Knicks?
@Uptown. Can try to quick erase shit by removing everyone. Which you would have to do since NO ONE besides Brunson 20/6.5 and Randle 20/8.6 are having ok years. Including the second unit.
Building around JB? Why? Size not ideal. Can see the trade threads start once he has a few more 2-13 games when he is the one we are building around and counting on. Using another Knickdanger quote. "proposing stupid trade ideas just so they're gone. And then move on to the next object of loathing." Is not enough or productive.
So far, it's obvious that the move is to trade the "hopefuls" for established star. We just had a chance but Knicks fans are famous for overvaluing the players that have yet to produce anything and undervaluing the players they have that are.
BigDaddyG wrote:so why are you guys focused on Randle and Thibs? This FO just give big money to lock up RJ/Randle/Mitch together... I mean maybe its just retaining assets and moves will be made but this group wasnt built by Thibs or Randle, it was build (or retained) by Leon.Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
Fyi He said RJ, Randle and MR. Keep that focus bro .
To quote Knickdanger "Hate to me is primarily characterized by a desire (need?) to harp only on the negative and on specific personalities - obsessively."@Uptown. Can try to quick erase shit by removing everyone. Which you would have to do since NO ONE besides Brunson 20/6.5 and Randle 20/8.6 are having ok years. Including the second unit.
Building around JB? Why? Size not ideal. Can see the trade threads start once he has a few more 2-13 games when he is the one we are building around. Using another Knickdamger quote. "proposing stupid trade ideas just so they're gone. And then move on to the next object of loathing." Is not enough or productive.So far, it's obvious that the move is to trade the "hopefuls" for established star. We just had a chance but Knicks fans are famous for overvaluing the players that have yet to produce anything and undervaluing the players they have that are.
There's a whole other thread dedicated to crapping on RJ if you want to join. We can blame Mitch too, but he's rarely played this season. Plus, I can consider him one of the peripheral pieces Uptown mentioned. But who has been consistently inconsistent in this lineup? You know the answer to that... Naw, I'm hating, 👍. I think the point is that the current path the team is on is headed to mediocrity. Our "best player" is middling and we have years of data to confirm this. The only reason RJ has gotten a pass is because he's young, but that excuse is wearing off. If you're happy about the product on the court, go ahead and enjoy your Corona while flipping through Randle family holiday pictures on his Instagram. Won't change a thing. The results will speak for themselves.
fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:so why are you guys focused on Randle and Thibs? This FO just give big money to lock up RJ/Randle/Mitch together... I mean maybe its just retaining assets and moves will be made but this group wasnt built by Thibs or Randle, it was build (or retained) by Leon.Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
I'm not on the fire Thibs train yet. As for Randle, it's because he's played like @$$ for the majority of his tenure here. I need a reason other than that?
BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:so why are you guys focused on Randle and Thibs? This FO just give big money to lock up RJ/Randle/Mitch together... I mean maybe its just retaining assets and moves will be made but this group wasnt built by Thibs or Randle, it was build (or retained) by Leon.Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
I'm not on the fire Thibs train yet. As for Randle, it's because he's played like @$$ for the majority of his tenure here. I need a reason other than that?
Got it. Randle is the ONLY guy you have chosen to identify as "playing like ass" during their tenure here. Of course, except for year as an All Star and being our highest producing player on team. EF, Obi, IQ, RJ, MR, Cam have been stellar. Still are.
Bro, you need to take off those hater glasses.
Firing Thibs is as smart as trading the only player who has produced for scraps just cuz fans like you want to see yet another hopeful.
Not a smart move until you fix major issues. Main one is our roster can't shoot nor is it compatible. Or you have a decent alternative.
But hey, if we can get a proven number one, proven shooters and a better proven PF, I would trade everyone in a heartbeat. Can now admit to being one the many Knicks hopeful fans that thought these scraps were too much to give for DM.
HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:so why are you guys focused on Randle and Thibs? This FO just give big money to lock up RJ/Randle/Mitch together... I mean maybe its just retaining assets and moves will be made but this group wasnt built by Thibs or Randle, it was build (or retained) by Leon.Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
I'm not on the fire Thibs train yet. As for Randle, it's because he's played like @$$ for the majority of his tenure here. I need a reason other than that?Got it. Randle is the ONLY guy you have chosen to identify as "playing like ass" during their tenure here. Of course, except for year as an All Star and being our highest producing player on team.
Bro, you need to take off those hater glasses.Firing Thibs is as smart as trading the only player who has produced for scraps just cuz fans like you want to see yet another hopeful.
Not a smart move until you fix major issues. Main one is our roster can't shoot nor is it compatible. Or you have a decent alternative.But hey, if we can get a proven number one, proven shooters and a better proven PF, I would trade everyone in a heartbeat. Can now admit to being one the many Knicks hopeful fans that thought these scraps were too much to give for DM.
Like I said, one good, overachieving season and the rest of his tenure has been butt cheeks. Nothing to hide. It's for all to see. The major flaw with this team is that exists. It needs to be tore down to the core. You're under the impression that there are pieces that need to be saved or can put together given time. That's not reality. This team is on treadmill, hanging for it's life and headed for irrelevance. Getting rid of Randle is the first step, tho you might argue RJ due to his extension. Rebuilds are hard and sometimes you need to recognize you effed up and pivot on the fly. Or do you really need to see more low IQ offensive and defensive play from Randle?
BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:fishmike wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:so why are you guys focused on Randle and Thibs? This FO just give big money to lock up RJ/Randle/Mitch together... I mean maybe its just retaining assets and moves will be made but this group wasnt built by Thibs or Randle, it was build (or retained) by Leon.Uptown wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:HofstraBBall wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:For those who decry those of us who want to dump Randall, do you guys want to buy any bridges ? You guys are beyond gullible.Sure. When is he coming?
We decry anyone who wants to scapegoat our many issues.
After last two games, Randle is one of many (not first) on a long list of players we should dump.
Yes, there are many issues with this club. That doesn't diminish the part Randle plays in this BS. He rarely ever finds it worth his time to step up and contest a three. Or resist the urge to go iso, or make bad jump passed to open shooters or take up a large swath of cap space...We've seen 4 years of this already. Even if you think Randle is our best player, it's clear he's not good enough. Should we dump Fournier as well? Yeah, but he's not even playing these days. Part of being the "best player" is leading by example and I'll admit, Randle has that part down pat. The entire team is following his example of lethargic, inconsistent defense and dumb offense. You're right, I'm a hater. I hate watching inconsistent effort game after game.The thing you keep missing is that NO ONE on here thinks Randle should be our BEST player or the "HEART" of the team. The only ones upset that he is are those that expected something more.
Guys like me preaching that he is a good piece and should not be dumped for "scraps" see him for what he is. Every team needs a bull. He is that when he sticks to driving hard. You need a good rebounder at PF. He is. Despite hater clips he is a good defender for a PF. Especially when guarding bigger PFs. He also can spread a defense out with his range. Good to have a PF that can do all that.
He did so at an All Star level. So there is that. Basically, despite his flaws he fits what you need in a PF.Now what about the rest of the lineup??
PG- We have a good PG. You need a good shooter. He is. You need an elite creator. He is. You need a good defender of opposing star guards. He probably is not However, he mostly fits his role. I have criticized him when he has games where he is not creating for others. (Under 7 assists and we usually lose). But he may have the same issues Randle has in passing. That being our lack of shooting from SG, SF and C.
SG- Our shooting guard is missing major ingredient. He can't shoot. Who is Randle and JB going to pass it out to? A good SG also breaks down the defense and sets others up. Ours does not. He is however a good defender. So that is good.
SG- Our small forward should be able to play defense. EF did not Cam does. Our SF is suppose to shoot. Who is Randle suppose to pass out in Double teams? Brunson on penetration. Cam can't and EF can. Our SF is suppose to create for others. Neither has.
C- Today's NBA needs a C who can spread floor and give offensive elite players room to operate. We do not have any of that. C is suppose to protect the rim. That we have.So when bring up Randle this is what I see. Not that he is such a good player.
Hater clips? These hater clips have been posted consistently since the start of the season. Spread the defense out with his range? His three point shooting remains below league average. You guys point to all these things Randle can do, but fail to mention that he doesn't do it on a consistent basis. Yes, the team has many flaws. That doesn't negate the fact that Randle is at the core of many of these issues. This team isn't good enough and it doesn't make sense to keep applying scotch tape to a project that needs a complete renovation.
Exactly...Some are advocating trading IQ, Obi, Evan and Rose. Those are peripheral pieces on this team that will only get us peripheral pieces back and it will do nothing to fix the core issues of this team which is the core players. The core needs to be dismantled because in my opinion the jigsaw pieces do not fit. I am not saying that we should build around Brunson, but he is our best and most clutch player and his ability and skill set should help the front office design a blueprint to add the correct pieces that fit alongside him. Randle, RJ and Mitch need to disassembled.
Exactly. I remember last year I'd hear 'well wait to Julius has a point guard!' Well he has a point guard and how is that turning out so far? No one is saying Julius is gutter trash, but he's not it as far as this franchise is concerned. The ecosystems needed for him to thrive and the rest of the team to be functional aren't compatible.
I'm not on the fire Thibs train yet. As for Randle, it's because he's played like @$$ for the majority of his tenure here. I need a reason other than that?Got it. Randle is the ONLY guy you have chosen to identify as "playing like ass" during their tenure here. Of course, except for year as an All Star and being our highest producing player on team.
Bro, you need to take off those hater glasses.Firing Thibs is as smart as trading the only player who has produced for scraps just cuz fans like you want to see yet another hopeful.
Not a smart move until you fix major issues. Main one is our roster can't shoot nor is it compatible. Or you have a decent alternative.But hey, if we can get a proven number one, proven shooters and a better proven PF, I would trade everyone in a heartbeat. Can now admit to being one the many Knicks hopeful fans that thought these scraps were too much to give for DM.
Like I said, one good, overachieving season and the rest of his tenure has been butt cheeks. Nothing to hide. It's for all to see. The major flaw with this team is that exists. It needs to be tore down to the core. You're under the impression that there are pieces that need to be saved or can put together given time. That's not reality. This team is on treadmill, hanging for it's life and headed for irrelevance. Getting rid of Randle is the first step, tho you might argue RJ due to his extension. Rebuilds are hard and sometimes you need to recognize you effed up and pivot on the fly. Or do you really need to see more low IQ offensive and defensive play from Randle?
Your still stuck on Randle. Like talking to someone with their wheels stuck in the mud and keeps blaming the engine. You claim it's there for all to see? You mean through your distorted glasses? Listed several positives and can list his stats the last three years. No matter how you color them, they are better than anyone else we have. Still waiting for who you think can replace him? And saying scraps/anyone is just what a hater says. Which you have said many times. Not exactly the way a professional FO would handle things. Just a bunch of shortsighted fans trippin. For now, I'll take his flaws. Like I take RJs 22% recent shooting. Like I'll take Obi's lack of defense and 0-9 last two games. Like I'll take Grimes 1-5 from three last game. Like I'll take Obi's 1-11 last two games. Or MR lack of offense. Or JBs lack of passing at times. Until something better proposes itself.
Fyi, I am not saying team should be scrapped. I am actually for patience unless something better comes along. I am okay watching Obi, RJ, IQ, Grimes, MR, Sims , Cam, Randle and JB continue to put it together. Unlike you I am not expecting ONE of those to be an elite star However also feel we should pull the trigger on any deal that will improve our talent level. Ie. An elite number one, elite shooters or a proven PF. Definitely not going to spend all my time looking to scapegoat ONE player amongst many average players on an average team.