Knicks · Some numbers from our big three and some others. (page 2)

EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 10:22 AM
franco12 wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Is that a typo or a new nick name, cause if it is, I like it!

Funny. That was unintentional.

EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 10:25 AM
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

It's the whole team that has been under that instruction

Agreed - and I like it. Its smart. I just find it amusing that he appears to be looking down a lot to see if he can take the shot - if his foot touched the paint.

martin @ 12/2/2022 10:30 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Still think he is taking too many three's. As mentioned on other post, scheme has him out there but feel he can drive to the high post where he is better.

Agree Thibs may be over playing guys at times. Although league average for starters is 32 to 33. But Only RJ is higher (34th in the league with 34)

In fact, I think the coaching staff and team as a whole want to take more 3's in terms of overall shot profile. Obi definitely needs to do more things on the court but team is going to shoot a ton of 3's and I'm guessing they don't want Obi to slow that down, just add more to it and add some variety.

martin @ 12/2/2022 10:31 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

It's the whole team that has been under that instruction

Agreed - and I like it. Its smart. I just find it amusing that he appears to be looking down a lot to see if he can take the shot - if his foot touched the paint.

I think Randle has been doing that for a while now, I recall it from past seasons.

EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 10:45 AM
fishmike wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Brunson is playing 32 minutes.... what's reasonable? 30? 28? 25? Brunson averaging half a minute more than he did last year.

Maybe we should get a coach that doesnt ask them to play so hard? Mike Miller and Fizdale are available. Just a thought

Take me at my best, not my worst here. Its not just about Brunson. That said, Brunson's getting to an average of closer to 34 minutes (there are some low outliers, like the 18 minutes after turning his ankle). He is also still hitting 34 minutes with 5 fouls. So, he may get pulled for fouls in the earlier game and then be pushing minutes at the end of game. On his end of game shots (Portland for example), he doesn't seem to have his legs underneath him. The shots look nothing like his normal form. He's a high energy, footwork player. He needs his legs to do the work. I think they need to manage those stretches better. Regardless of what the averages are, these guys legs are looking heavy down the stretch.

Your Miller/Fizdale comment is just a non-sequitur. Managing minutes and managing effort are not the same thing. Maximize effort. Minimize exhaustion. This team has depth not stars.

EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 10:46 AM
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Still think he is taking too many three's. As mentioned on other post, scheme has him out there but feel he can drive to the high post where he is better.

Agree Thibs may be over playing guys at times. Although league average for starters is 32 to 33. But Only RJ is higher (34th in the league with 34)

In fact, I think the coaching staff and team as a whole want to take more 3's in terms of overall shot profile. Obi definitely needs to do more things on the court but team is going to shoot a ton of 3's and I'm guessing they don't want Obi to slow that down, just add more to it and add some variety.

Randle shot 35% in November from 3. He's taking more of the "right" threes and less of the off the dribble step back threes.

fishmike @ 12/2/2022 11:22 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
fishmike wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Brunson is playing 32 minutes.... what's reasonable? 30? 28? 25? Brunson averaging half a minute more than he did last year.

Maybe we should get a coach that doesnt ask them to play so hard? Mike Miller and Fizdale are available. Just a thought

Take me at my best, not my worst here. Its not just about Brunson. That said, Brunson's getting to an average of closer to 34 minutes (there are some low outliers, like the 18 minutes after turning his ankle). He is also still hitting 34 minutes with 5 fouls. So, he may get pulled for fouls in the earlier game and then be pushing minutes at the end of game. On his end of game shots (Portland for example), he doesn't seem to have his legs underneath him. The shots look nothing like his normal form. He's a high energy, footwork player. He needs his legs to do the work. I think they need to manage those stretches better. Regardless of what the averages are, these guys legs are looking heavy down the stretch.

Your Miller/Fizdale comment is just a non-sequitur. Managing minutes and managing effort are not the same thing. Maximize effort. Minimize exhaustion. This team has depth not stars.

the truth is this is on Brunson. This is part of his BB IQ that has not developed yet and that's understandable. The sacrifice your body mentality is inspiring for role players, not your leading scorer. Taking 1-2 charges and getting knocked around for 30 minutes doesnt help us if you cant move by the end of the games. Everyone knows Brunson's defensive liabilities. If he wants to take a charge do that in the last 2 minutes. Is that on Thibs? He's overcompensating for his weakness when he should be leaning on his strength more which is the Trae Young school of defense and saving himself for offense. Take that charge in crunch time

At some point soon hopefully we start treating our best scorer like he's our best scorer and Brunson realizes that as well. He's not Kyle Lowry, but he could be a (prime pre-injury) Isaiah Thomas and that is surely a weapon. His scoring prowess is going age like fine wine and he just turned 26.

Thibs isnt running these guys harder than any other NBA team runs their players.

martin @ 12/2/2022 11:23 AM
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Still think he is taking too many three's. As mentioned on other post, scheme has him out there but feel he can drive to the high post where he is better.

Agree Thibs may be over playing guys at times. Although league average for starters is 32 to 33. But Only RJ is higher (34th in the league with 34)

In fact, I think the coaching staff and team as a whole want to take more 3's in terms of overall shot profile. Obi definitely needs to do more things on the court but team is going to shoot a ton of 3's and I'm guessing they don't want Obi to slow that down, just add more to it and add some variety.

Randle shot 35% in November from 3. He's taking more of the "right" threes and less of the off the dribble step back threes.

Yup. In some aspects Randle is changing the way he plays and the role he has on the team. Not all bad for him.

fishmike @ 12/2/2022 11:51 AM
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Still think he is taking too many three's. As mentioned on other post, scheme has him out there but feel he can drive to the high post where he is better.

Agree Thibs may be over playing guys at times. Although league average for starters is 32 to 33. But Only RJ is higher (34th in the league with 34)

In fact, I think the coaching staff and team as a whole want to take more 3's in terms of overall shot profile. Obi definitely needs to do more things on the court but team is going to shoot a ton of 3's and I'm guessing they don't want Obi to slow that down, just add more to it and add some variety.

Randle shot 35% in November from 3. He's taking more of the "right" threes and less of the off the dribble step back threes.

Yup. In some aspects Randle is changing the way he plays and the role he has on the team. Not all bad for him.

look at Randle's offensive analytics, EFG%, TS% +/- all that stuff... he's having a career year. He's been really good. We all know he has way too many shit games and too many fluff games vs. shit teams, but that is also what you get when you make a good 3rd option into the first option. That being said its not the same old Julius. He's making adjustments and they are translating.
HofstraBBall @ 12/2/2022 2:01 PM
Chandler @ 12/2/2022 2:26 PM

knicks fans need to show love at MSG in tough times. winning at home should be a thing
Knixkik @ 12/2/2022 2:47 PM
Chandler wrote:
knicks fans need to show love at MSG in tough times. winning at home should be a thing

Teams play harder at MSG than other places. Worlds most famous arena, Celebrity row etc. it’s not like playing in Detroit or Charlotte. It will always be harder for the Knicks to carry a significant home court advantage like most other teams.

HofstraBBall @ 12/2/2022 3:08 PM
Chandler wrote:
knicks fans need to show love at MSG in tough times. winning at home should be a thing

Been to a couple of games. Crowd has been good. Supportive but during crunch time and if certain players miss a couple of shots the atmosphere goes a bit quite. Do think overall it's been a positive atmosphere. But yes agree, fans need to step it up when we are not holding down home court as much as players.

KnickDanger @ 12/2/2022 8:54 PM
MSG should be a place where the Knicks usually win. That their road record is significantly better is concerning. I want to blame media and haters but it likely isn't that simple.
EwingsGlass @ 12/2/2022 9:33 PM
martin wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:
EwingsGlass wrote:
martin wrote:

He’s been playing much better in 2022 and November. He kind of looks like he is tipping his his shots, looking for the box so he can shoot. Clearly under some form of instruction to move his shots into the paint or behind the arc. It’s kind of cute to watch as he is often looking down before he pulls the ball up.

His assists are down 2 per game in 2022 even though his usage is only down from 28% to 26%. This may be the Brunson effect, his passes may not be resulting in assists.

Not gonna say much about RJ. He needs to get his touch back. Less minutes might help. He looks exhausted.

Brunson is fantastic on offense and not a lot of length on defense. We knew this. Kind of disappointed with his “clutch” shots end of game, but again, I think Rhibs is overplaying these guys and they look exhausted.

Still think he is taking too many three's. As mentioned on other post, scheme has him out there but feel he can drive to the high post where he is better.

Agree Thibs may be over playing guys at times. Although league average for starters is 32 to 33. But Only RJ is higher (34th in the league with 34)

In fact, I think the coaching staff and team as a whole want to take more 3's in terms of overall shot profile. Obi definitely needs to do more things on the court but team is going to shoot a ton of 3's and I'm guessing they don't want Obi to slow that down, just add more to it and add some variety.

Randle shot 35% in November from 3. He's taking more of the "right" threes and less of the off the dribble step back threes.

Yup. In some aspects Randle is changing the way he plays and the role he has on the team. Not all bad for him.

I just think he is telegraphing when he is going to shoot. He’s looking at the floor to hit his spot and not keeping his eyes open for his teammates. Much improved shot selection though. Fantastic pitcher that tips pitches still gets slammed (except Curt Schilling).

Kemet @ 12/2/2022 10:49 PM
The Knicks has a 10-12 record, and the Knicks played 12 teams under .500
The Knicks has not played team-ball all season.
How many Knicks players shot 10 or more shots in a game out of the Knicks 22 games ???
Outside of the Knicks no-defense trio (Randle/Barrett/Brunson)???
HofstraBBall @ 12/3/2022 9:26 AM
Kemet wrote:The Knicks has a 10-12 record, and the Knicks played 12 teams under .500
The Knicks has not played team-ball all season.
How many Knicks players shot 10 or more shots in a game out of the Knicks 22 games ???
Outside of the Knicks no-defense trio (Randle/Barrett/Brunson)???

Lazy haters are the worst. That's easy to look up. IQ, Cam, Hart, Fournier and Rose have also had over 10 shot attempts in a game this far this year.

HofstraBBall @ 12/3/2022 9:50 AM
3pt shooting.
Our last 8 games:

JB 37%
Randle 33%
Rose 33%
Grimes 28%
IQ 30%
RJ 27%
Toppin 26%
Cam 25%

Troubling. Especially our wings. Is there a case to bring back EF. Not like we have been giving up under 100 a game.

KnickDanger @ 12/3/2022 11:17 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:3pt shooting.
Our last 8 games:

JB 37%
Randle 33%
Rose 33%
Grimes 28%
IQ 30%
RJ 27%
Toppin 26%
Cam 25%

Troubling. Especially our wings. Is there a case to bring back EF. Not like we have been giving up under 100 a game.


I guess Thibs does have a doghouse but it seems the more permanent occupants are veterans with questionable defense -- Kemba and EF. I'm pro-Thibs but not a big fan of doghouses though.
Nalod @ 12/3/2022 11:39 AM
HofstraBBall wrote:3pt shooting.
Our last 8 games:

JB 37%
Randle 33%
Rose 33%
Grimes 28%
IQ 30%
RJ 27%
Toppin 26%
Cam 25%

Troubling. Especially our wings. Is there a case to bring back EF. Not like we have been giving up under 100 a game.

fans minds are blown as the offense is not the issue this year. Very un-Thibian situation.
Faster pace creates worse shooting %.

We can always find a stat to help our rose colored glass looking agenda, or the ones that have shit stains on them.
"we need better players". brilliant. This is easy to type.
"We need our players to execute better". This is how reality works.

Trades happen, but if we use our picks capital to dump players, what does that do? What does the roster look like?
THis is where the rubber meets the road. Whre reality is.

In the regret department, Read an take about Dejuan Murray being a dick and its why SAS did not want to pay him. We saw his summer league act, but he and Trae young recently mocking the Rockets and they came back and beat the Hawks. This was a view that SAS saw as immaturity. How he practices? Gets along with his mates? Or in game moods all matter. SAS took a pass.
Now, Im not intimate with him or his attitude but I found it interesting. Last month the view was "OMG, fire Leon for not trading for him" after he fried us. Not like the 29 other GM's did not know this kid or his act. ATL saw value and perhaps for their team it was the right call. time will tell. SAS did not want build with him going forward.

Around the league also:

Notice Embiid talk is non existant now they are back on track?
Udoka has to be sick to his stomach seeing his team perform, his wife likely pissed as shit (usually dudes that get caught have more offenses than not), his NBA career on hold, and who the hell knows what he is doing everyday.
I alway root that a family can get put back together.

Look around, some teams are struggling with contracts and health. Wiz with Beal and KP are not thriving. Bulls? Levine contract is not pretty and its just getting started. Remember last year with Randle and his deal looked to lazy haters? Not so bad this year.
Not so great, but the needle moves slower than some would like.

RJ, 21 year old avg 20pts and looked great last year. seriously, we "patient best fans in the most famous arena" already to dump him after 20 so games? Really"?

If possible, love to see 20 games with a healthy staring lineup.

Grimes
Brunson
Mitch
RJ
Randle

They have looked better than our second unit. Remember when we loved our second unit more than the first?

Lets actually think for a moment? What's different? Cam is playing the slasher role and OBI is bombing away.
Rather than just shit on OBI look at what is actually happening and how they are playing. IM not liking this years version of IQ and Rose together. Drose says he not sure his role. I see what he is talking about the team is moving to IQ.
So now the second unit has two new faces this year, Cam and iHart.

HofstraBBall @ 12/3/2022 11:58 AM
KnickDanger wrote:
HofstraBBall wrote:3pt shooting.
Our last 8 games:

JB 37%
Randle 33%
Rose 33%
Grimes 28%
IQ 30%
RJ 27%
Toppin 26%
Cam 25%

Troubling. Especially our wings. Is there a case to bring back EF. Not like we have been giving up under 100 a game.


I guess Thibs does have a doghouse but it seems the more permanent occupants are veterans with questionable defense -- Kemba and EF. I'm pro-Thibs but not a big fan of doghouses though.

Cam and Grimes have been perceived as a plus. Question is has that really translated to more wins.
Do feel they are better long term than EF and that we need to see the real affect after they have them healthy for a longer stretch. And by no means am I saying EF should be back in as a starter. Just asking at what point do you let the guy who broke the Knick record for threes back in the rotation? When three point shooting seems to be struggling at the recent rate.

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