Knicks · Jalen Brunson has overall been great (page 3)

Believe it would be foolish to assume that Brunson can take the punishment on the court that he does, year after year. Without it affecting his availabilty. The sooner we're contending the better.

GustavBahler wrote:Believe it would be foolish to assume that Brunson can take the punishment on the court that he does, year after year. Without it affecting his availabilty. The sooner we're contending the better.

That or the Knicks need to keep IQ to act as understudy. The good news is that his game is mostly ground based, so he maybe able to hold it together a little longer. But the punishment he takes in the paint is reminiscent of Marbury, who started slowing down by his 10th season.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Believe it would be foolish to assume that Brunson can take the punishment on the court that he does, year after year. Without it affecting his availabilty. The sooner we're contending the better.

That or the Knicks need to keep IQ to act as understudy. The good news is that his game is mostly ground based, so he maybe able to hold it together a little longer. But the punishment he takes in the paint is reminiscent of Marbury, who started slowing down by his 10th season.

I get the feeling the IQ will be moved. If JB starts missing a lot of games. I hope Grimes is considered. Showing more PG skills with every game.

BigDaddyG wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Believe it would be foolish to assume that Brunson can take the punishment on the court that he does, year after year. Without it affecting his availabilty. The sooner we're contending the better.

That or the Knicks need to keep IQ to act as understudy. The good news is that his game is mostly ground based, so he maybe able to hold it together a little longer. But the punishment he takes in the paint is reminiscent of Marbury, who started slowing down by his 10th season.

Rokas will help too.

martin wrote:
For me, I see a player who hasn't seen court time in about 18 months, is 34yo, and who has a ton of miles in those multiple-times surgically repaired legs.

He has lost a ton of weight too, no idea how that has effected his play but he just looks different.

Rose's role is that of an elder statesman and tutor on the bench and the locker room, plus for holding the fort if JB or IQ become unavailable. This is the right place for him.

Rokas's game looks a lot like Grimes's: smart cuts, smart passes to cutting guys, occassional threes. His stats vs top level EuroLeague competition do not impress, not even Hezonja level. Remains to be seen whether he can be a serviceable third-string PG in the NBA, let alone the main backup.

ESOMKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:
For me, I see a player who hasn't seen court time in about 18 months, is 34yo, and who has a ton of miles in those multiple-times surgically repaired legs.

He has lost a ton of weight too, no idea how that has effected his play but he just looks different.

Rose's role is that of an elder statesman and tutor on the bench and the locker room, plus for holding the fort if JB or IQ become unavailable. This is the right place for him.

Rokas's game looks a lot like Grimes's: smart cuts, smart passes to cutting guys, occassional threes. His stats vs top level EuroLeague competition do not impress, not even Hezonja level. Remains to be seen whether he can be a serviceable third-string PG in the NBA, let alone the main backup.

What's holding him back these days? Seems like I have read he has not played as well this year as last.

Also, is he starting or coming off bench?

martin wrote:
What's holding him back these days? Seems like I have read he has not played as well this year as last.

Also, is he starting or coming off bench?

All I see is what you can see: highlights and season stats. He gets fewer minutes in the Euroleague than in the local Spanish league, and his averages + shooting percentages are lower in the Euroleague. An article in a Spanish newspaper this week alludes to Rokas being "highly criticized this season for his low level", though notes that he was instrumental in helping Nicola Mirotic and Cory Higgins get a win for Barca against Betis yesterday. Rokas came off the bench, but played the second most minutes after Mirotic.
Another article from last week quotes Barca's coach as saying: "Our game has been going in the wrong direction, no need to lie about it. We need to try to get more production, above all out of Rokas".

ESOMKnicks wrote:

martin wrote:
What's holding him back these days? Seems like I have read he has not played as well this year as last.

Also, is he starting or coming off bench?

All I see is what you can see: highlights and season stats. He gets fewer minutes in the Euroleague than in the local Spanish league, and his averages + shooting percentages are lower in the Euroleague. An article in a Spanish newspaper this week alludes to Rokas being "highly criticized this season for his low level", though notes that he was instrumental in helping Nicola Mirotic and Cory Higgins get a win for Barca against Betis yesterday.
Another article from last week quotes Barca's coach as saying: "Our game has been going in the wrong direction, no need to lie about it. We need to try to get more production, above all out of Rokas".

OK thanks, didn't know if you were catching games or not.

I only see highlights for the most part

Wow the rebounding, didn't know that

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Dallas screwed the pooch.

ToddTT wrote:Dallas screwed the pooch.

I mean this one hurts like picking Knox over SGA. You had the guy and and he's gone with nothing to show.

I didnt think we could get him but I was shocked how they did it all and still have this chest of picks to work with.

Brunson at 26 is just a great player to have. We need a few more like him. I like how the guys who are in the program awhile are looking. Hopefully IQ is another Brunson!

martin wrote:

Forgot the Mavs could've offered JB up to $30M per if they wanted. The Mavs really, really screwed up.
https://www.spotrac.com/research/NBA/a-d...

Let’s preface this by saying that Jalen Brunson isn’t a max player. Barring a massive playoff run where’s he’s a huge part of leading the Mavericks to the NBA Finals, Brunson won’t approach max money. But, for posterity’s sake, here’s the projected max deal Brunson could ink with Dallas this summer:

2022-23: $30,250,000
2023-24: $32,670,000
2024-25: $35,090,000
2025-26: $37,510,000
2026-27: $39,930,000
Total: Five years, $175,450,000

Dallas could not value JB under the shadow of Luka, nor would he have had the ball as much.
They screwed up in that they did not pay him and then trade him down the line. Issue is at 55mil over 4 would he have played to his contract and then be a trade asset. Yes!

Randle was a free agent back on track playing to his contrct, now Brunson.
We are slowly being a good team. Good teams mess up too. Not every draft pick or FA works out.
EF did last year but not this. Drose was great, now not so. IQ and Grimes yes, Toppin not as hoped.

The constant in dallas regarding Nash (as simmons described) signing Eric Dampier instread, and lets not forget that weird thing where (in prime) D’andre Jordan committed then reneged are all the one constant which was owner Mark Cuban. The dude who rights the checks.

Nalod wrote:Dallas could not value JB under the shadow of Luka, nor would he have had the ball as much.
They screwed up in that they did not pay him and then trade him down the line. Issue is at 55mil over 4 would he have played to his contract and then be a trade asset. Yes!

Randle was a free agent back on track playing to his contrct, now Brunson.
We are slowly being a good team. Good teams mess up too. Not every draft pick or FA works out.
EF did last year but not this. Drose was great, now not so. IQ and Grimes yes, Toppin not as hoped.

The constant in dallas regarding Nash (as simmons described) signing Eric Dampier instread, and lets not forget that weird thing where (in prime) D’andre Jordan committed then reneged are all the one constant which was owner Mark Cuban. The dude who rights the checks.

Disagree. FVV was an easy career and market comp, especially after the playoffs. Even after they screwed up by not giving JB the rough equivalent of mid level deal, there was an opportunity for them to get ahead of things before they got out of hand. They decided to go cheap and ride Dinwiddie and Frank. Even at JB's current salary, he's still a trade able asset.

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Dallas could not value JB under the shadow of Luka, nor would he have had the ball as much.
They screwed up in that they did not pay him and then trade him down the line. Issue is at 55mil over 4 would he have played to his contract and then be a trade asset. Yes!

Randle was a free agent back on track playing to his contrct, now Brunson.
We are slowly being a good team. Good teams mess up too. Not every draft pick or FA works out.
EF did last year but not this. Drose was great, now not so. IQ and Grimes yes, Toppin not as hoped.

The constant in dallas regarding Nash (as simmons described) signing Eric Dampier instread, and lets not forget that weird thing where (in prime) D’andre Jordan committed then reneged are all the one constant which was owner Mark Cuban. The dude who rights the checks.

Disagree. FVV was an easy career and market comp, especially after the playoffs. Even after they screwed up by not giving JB the rough equivalent of mid level deal, there was an opportunity for them to get ahead of things before they got out of hand. They decided to go cheap and ride Dinwiddie and Frank. Even at JB's current salary, he's still a trade able asset.

Disagree? I said they screwed up. Im not defending their position. Im laying a guess as to why they did what they did. They extended Timmy JR and had Dinwiddie. They would have had a lot of money tied to guards.
Obviously they like Timmy at 6-5 and range. Dinnwiddie played very well last year. Luka is the shyt.
Have to go back to the moment and understand the decision in front of them. Obviously they did not understand what they had.
Some thought knicks over paid. Knicks took a chance. Its working.

The nash thing I did not hear about his back issues which is a major reason Cube did not resign him. He was an allstar in Dallas so its not like he was up and coming as was Brunson. Nobody could see the magic of and Nash and the equation that produced two MVP awards and a bonafide HOF career! They also wanted to allocate resources to a center which the game still valued. In the end Cube got it right. Non Flu tyson and Dirk with a better shooting older version of Kidd produced a chip. So while Dallas messed up, they have the bling. Suns/Nash despite greatness had the bad fortune of SAS and Triangle Lakers to contend with. Dallas snuck in and stayed in it while first year Heatles got way too confident in themselves!

Nalod wrote:

BigDaddyG wrote:

Nalod wrote:Dallas could not value JB under the shadow of Luka, nor would he have had the ball as much.
They screwed up in that they did not pay him and then trade him down the line. Issue is at 55mil over 4 would he have played to his contract and then be a trade asset. Yes!

Randle was a free agent back on track playing to his contrct, now Brunson.
We are slowly being a good team. Good teams mess up too. Not every draft pick or FA works out.
EF did last year but not this. Drose was great, now not so. IQ and Grimes yes, Toppin not as hoped.

The constant in dallas regarding Nash (as simmons described) signing Eric Dampier instread, and lets not forget that weird thing where (in prime) D’andre Jordan committed then reneged are all the one constant which was owner Mark Cuban. The dude who rights the checks.

Disagree. FVV was an easy career and market comp, especially after the playoffs. Even after they screwed up by not giving JB the rough equivalent of mid level deal, there was an opportunity for them to get ahead of things before they got out of hand. They decided to go cheap and ride Dinwiddie and Frank. Even at JB's current salary, he's still a trade able asset.

Disagree? I said they screwed up. Im not defending their position. Im laying a guess as to why they did what they did. They extended Timmy JR and had Dinwiddie. They would have had a lot of money tied to guards.
Obviously they like Timmy at 6-5 and range. Dinnwiddie played very well last year. Luka is the shyt.
Have to go back to the moment and understand the decision in front of them. Obviously they did not understand what they had.
Some thought knicks over paid. Knicks took a chance. Its working.

The nash thing I did not hear about his back issues which is a major reason Cube did not resign him. He was an allstar in Dallas so its not like he was up and coming as was Brunson. Nobody could see the magic of and Nash and the equation that produced two MVP awards and a bonafide HOF career! They also wanted to allocate resources to a center which the game still valued. In the end Cube got it right. Non Flu tyson and Dirk with a better shooting older version of Kidd produced a chip. So while Dallas messed up, they have the bling. Suns/Nash despite greatness had the bad fortune of SAS and Triangle Lakers to contend with. Dallas snuck in and stayed in it while first year Heatles got way too confident in themselves!

Should clarify. I don't disagree with overall gist of your post, just the idea that they couldn't value JB under the shadow of Luka. His importance as a secondary and part-time primary creator was clear. Mark tried to get cute with the contract negotiations and it bit him.

BigDaddyG wrote:Should clarify. I don't disagree with overall gist of your post, just the idea that they couldn't value JB under the shadow of Luka. His importance as a secondary and part-time primary creator was clear. Mark tried to get cute with the contract negotiations and it bit him.

I feel like "bit him" is an understatement. It neutered him and his team.

Mark is wasting prime Luka years with his and GM's management of the roster. They just gave up a guy FOR FREE who in a trade - playing like he is now - would have garnered big return IF Brunson was given a bigger chance. Like 2-3 first round picks return and a player.

It's going to take a long while for the Mavs to be in a position to add another talent along the lines of Brunson with their cap and general asset management.

And boo-yaa, Knicks control their next first round pick and Dallas is a hammy away from dropping games and landing in the mid-teens area

It's delicious, anyone else want some? Did not want Brunson - thought he would cost too much, be too much of a defensive liability, and was not confident in his ability to lead the team longterm.

Sure, we hide him a little on D, but definitely manageable and his sacrificing himself for the charge is not to be underrated. Midrange fadeaway is automatic. He's revived Randle. And most importantly, he has "it" - that special ability to step up in the clutch, to be the guy to end the other team's 3rd Q run, to get the team under control when we're spiraling. That's not something every all star has. Dude is a killer and a straight up bargain!

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