18-17 is a little misleading. Close losses and some flip flop in roster.
The most untouchable piece we have is grimes. I can’t imagine a scenario unless we were getting back Durant that we’d offer grimes.
Randle has played great. Rj has come on
If Robinson could bottle up last nights game or close to it
Iq played well despite not shooting. Showing more value a s a pure 1 guard
We’re very close to being really good.
The way I see it is we need more fire power on the bench.
I don’t think we need to rob the bank to get there either
We DO NOT need to spend heavily on a good player There’s not enough basketballs.
Chris Duarte has fallen out of favor in Indians would be a solid bench piece w cheap contract
Things like that
I actually agree. We are very young and playing well enough to win. We need to learn to finish games. Brunson needs experience being a finisher in crunch time. All our young guys need experience in crunch time.
Some growth is painful to watch, but seeing Grimes and McBride and IQ out there in games like these means a lot. This is not Fizdale running Knox out there to get his shots. These are leaning the pain of finishing games
IQ starting to hit his shots like he's shown he is capable of in the past would bring us a long way. He was 1-8 from 3 in regulation yesterday. That's not good enough and he can do better
Agree. Quick fix, which is not always the best, would be to trade one of our big three. Leaning towards RJ. Kid just does not pass the ball. And to get an upgrade at SG and move Grimes to second unit to add to their scoring.
OR
We could be patient and smart and let RJ, Randle, KB have more than just 40 games to learn how to play together and know when to let others take control. Let RJ develop his court vision. Let Randle learn how to make quicker decisions off a double. Let JB develop setting others up on drives. Let MR develop some type of short jumpers and foul shot. Let IQ, Grimes and Obi continue their development. Add small pieces that can be the glue that brings it together.
Panos wrote:IQ starting to hit his shots like he's shown he is capable of in the past would bring us a long way. He was 1-8 from 3 in regulation yesterday. That's not good enough and he can do better
what I like is his ability to do other things, like be a + defender and dish 15 assists or grab a dozen rebounds. He's literally getting better all the time and its just gonna take patience and that means swallowing some tough losses as we have.
I agree BRIGGS. The loses this year is different from the loses in the past. I’m not sure what hurts more. A blowout or a loss we should’ve won.
But we are definitely close and personally I can’t put my finger on a one move solution.
I do know while we are trying to figure out who we are, the entire east continues to improve. And all these teams that hit on their high picks will soon have those high picks turn into vets. It’s like we will continue to be behind the curve with other teams unless we do something more than any minor changes.
Picking late in the draft and not picking a star hurts longterm development and why we have to depend on free agency. That’s the hybrid development approach. I just don’t have a lot of confidence in this 3 plus thibs as their coach.
blkexec wrote:I agree BRIGGS. The loses this year is different from the loses in the past. I’m not sure what hurts more. A blowout or a loss we should’ve won. But we are definitely close and personally I can’t put my finger on a one move solution.
I do know while we are trying to figure out who we are, the entire east continues to improve. And all these teams that hit on their high picks will soon have those high picks turn into vets. It’s like we will continue to be behind the curve with other teams unless we do something more than any minor changes.
Picking late in the draft and not picking a star hurts longterm development and why we have to depend on free agency. That’s the hybrid development approach. I just don’t have a lot of confidence in this 3 plus thibs as their coach.
but you have all the confidence in the world in McBride. Dude... 1-9. I love that you can watch this stuff and walk away with "damn it Thibs!"
Let me guess he McBride too much and should have played Cam or Fournier 
We’re very close to being ok/good
Nothing wrong with giving Fournier 15-20 minutes on a night like this.
Dallas doesn’t have many guys outside of Luka and Dinwidde that can penetrate. You have a road trip coming up and two guys hurt you don’t play 4 guys above 45 minutes.
I don’t like the guy, but it’s not like he’s not an nba player. He was just not used correctly, a bench heat check combo guard with quick would have been fine.
They really just need another wing scorer on the bench and I don’t think Obi fills that role. A Devin Vessel type would be perfect. Obi and number 1 does that get it done?
MS wrote:Nothing wrong with giving Fournier 15-20 minutes on a night like this. Dallas doesn’t have many guys outside of Luka and Dinwidde that can penetrate. You have a road trip coming up and two guys hurt you don’t play 4 guys above 45 minutes.
I don’t like the guy, but it’s not like he’s not an nba player. He was just not used correctly, a bench heat check combo guard with quick would have been fine.
They really just need another wing scorer on the bench and I don’t think Obi fills that role. A Devin Vessel type would be perfect. Obi and number 1 does that get it done?
Outside of the last 35 seconds of the game the Knicks were up by 7 give or take, the move for you is to take out one of Grimes, IQ, McBride who are REALLY all good defenders and roll out the slowest footed guy in the league so that Doncic or Spencer can dice him up?
MS wrote:Nothing wrong with giving Fournier 15-20 minutes on a night like this. Dallas doesn’t have many guys outside of Luka and Dinwidde that can penetrate. You have a road trip coming up and two guys hurt you don’t play 4 guys above 45 minutes.
I don’t like the guy, but it’s not like he’s not an nba player. He was just not used correctly, a bench heat check combo guard with quick would have been fine.
They really just need another wing scorer on the bench and I don’t think Obi fills that role. A Devin Vessel type would be perfect. Obi and number 1 does that get it done?
OK that's not bad... I suspect it takes more but I would look hard at that.
martin wrote:MS wrote:Nothing wrong with giving Fournier 15-20 minutes on a night like this. Dallas doesn’t have many guys outside of Luka and Dinwidde that can penetrate. You have a road trip coming up and two guys hurt you don’t play 4 guys above 45 minutes.
I don’t like the guy, but it’s not like he’s not an nba player. He was just not used correctly, a bench heat check combo guard with quick would have been fine.
They really just need another wing scorer on the bench and I don’t think Obi fills that role. A Devin Vessel type would be perfect. Obi and number 1 does that get it done?
Outside of the last 35 seconds of the game the Knicks were up by 7 give or take, the move for you is to take out one of Grimes, IQ, McBride who are REALLY all good defenders and roll out the slowest footed guy in the league so that Doncic or Spencer can dice him up?
people also dont realize its unfair. A player that's been benched is now expected to bail out group that's struggling. It just doesnt work that way. You dont "play the youth" then pop in vets when you might be able to win one. No team does that, it's wildly unfair to players there's a reason no teams and coaches do this
fishmike wrote:blkexec wrote:I agree BRIGGS. The loses this year is different from the loses in the past. I’m not sure what hurts more. A blowout or a loss we should’ve won. But we are definitely close and personally I can’t put my finger on a one move solution.
I do know while we are trying to figure out who we are, the entire east continues to improve. And all these teams that hit on their high picks will soon have those high picks turn into vets. It’s like we will continue to be behind the curve with other teams unless we do something more than any minor changes.
Picking late in the draft and not picking a star hurts longterm development and why we have to depend on free agency. That’s the hybrid development approach. I just don’t have a lot of confidence in this 3 plus thibs as their coach.
but you have all the confidence in the world in McBride. Dude... 1-9. I love that you can watch this stuff and walk away with "damn it Thibs!"Let me guess he McBride too much and should have played Cam or Fournier
No Deuce should not have played 46 mins lol
Yes Cam should have played some mins.
EF should have been moved to bench, not off the team.
I've always had an issue with this combination of Thibs, RJ and Ju. I never thought these 3 together can go far, let alone win at least 1 playoff series (thats not asking a lot).
How can I walk away and say damit Thibs? Thats very easy to do. But it's not all on Thibs and never was. Deuce was never this savor, just a dude who can help a team win, thats all I've been saying. I knew he was capable of doing exactly what he's doing now. Play hard defense and move the ball. Thats his floor, and it was needed in spurts. Not 46mins
I think more talent just covers up weaknesses I see in Thibs. But hey, nobody is perfect and he's not going anywhere. And I don't have a replacement, so fine. I'll stop complaining about Thibs. With that said, we are definetly close.
- Closing out games in crunch time
- Whats everybody's roles in crunch time?
- Whos the go to guy?
- Whats our go to plays instead of Iso Randle?
- I love the rigid style but even old man Doc Rivers goes to a zone. Gotta adjust on the fly sometimes.
But thats all fixable, so thats why I think we are close. We have 2 All Stars somewhere in our big 3 (RJ, JB, Randle). Grimes is knocking on the door. Mitch is a top rebounder. Thibs is a top veteran coach. Rose is well respected in the NBA. Dolan not afraid to spend. Greatest fastbase in the world.
We are very close. I'll try to stay out the kitchen while Leon is cooking!
fishmike wrote:martin wrote:MS wrote:Nothing wrong with giving Fournier 15-20 minutes on a night like this. Dallas doesn’t have many guys outside of Luka and Dinwidde that can penetrate. You have a road trip coming up and two guys hurt you don’t play 4 guys above 45 minutes.
I don’t like the guy, but it’s not like he’s not an nba player. He was just not used correctly, a bench heat check combo guard with quick would have been fine.
They really just need another wing scorer on the bench and I don’t think Obi fills that role. A Devin Vessel type would be perfect. Obi and number 1 does that get it done?
Outside of the last 35 seconds of the game the Knicks were up by 7 give or take, the move for you is to take out one of Grimes, IQ, McBride who are REALLY all good defenders and roll out the slowest footed guy in the league so that Doncic or Spencer can dice him up?
people also dont realize its unfair. A player that's been benched is now expected to bail out group that's struggling. It just doesnt work that way. You dont "play the youth" then pop in vets when you might be able to win one. No team does that, it's wildly unfair to players there's a reason no teams and coaches do this
This. Don't get the "things would have been different if" we put EF in? This ignores that there is a bigger probability that we would have not had a 9 point lead with 40 seconds left if EF logged those minutes?
Last year Boston turned their season around after a bad loss to the Knicks, maybe this is a turning point for the Knicks.
WE still need a roster upgrade though.
I think this team is an elite bench piece away from being pretty good. The starting lineup is good. The bench is ok. The missing piece to becoming great will continue to be a star, but this team can still grow and be really good with just minor upgrades and development.
fishmike wrote:MS wrote:Nothing wrong with giving Fournier 15-20 minutes on a night like this. Dallas doesn’t have many guys outside of Luka and Dinwidde that can penetrate. You have a road trip coming up and two guys hurt you don’t play 4 guys above 45 minutes.
I don’t like the guy, but it’s not like he’s not an nba player. He was just not used correctly, a bench heat check combo guard with quick would have been fine.
They really just need another wing scorer on the bench and I don’t think Obi fills that role. A Devin Vessel type would be perfect. Obi and number 1 does that get it done?
OK that's not bad... I suspect it takes more but I would look hard at that.
I wanted Vassell two years ago over Obi. Ugh
Martin that’s just stupid.
Thibs made a couple missteps, which happens.
I’m not asking for those guys to get in the game with 35 seconds left.
You’re ok with McBride playing 45 minutes? Sure you are!
Thibs has been bad with rotations for three years. No rhyme or reason. It’s just his thing. RJ is now gone for at least a weak, Brunson will be hobbled.
You’re telling me that you wouldn’t have given Fournier a couple of minutes?
Well then the front office is fucking incompetent if they gave 18MM to a guy that can’t be the 10th man on the Knicks?
MS wrote:Martin that’s just stupid. Thibs made a couple missteps, which happens.
I’m not asking for those guys to get in the game with 35 seconds left.
You’re ok with McBride playing 45 minutes? Sure you are!
Thibs has been bad with rotations for three years. No rhyme or reason. It’s just his thing. RJ is now gone for at least a weak, Brunson will be hobbled.
You’re telling me that you wouldn’t have given Fournier a couple of minutes?
Well then the front office is fucking incompetent if they gave 18MM to a guy that can’t be the 10th man on the Knicks?
No I wouldn’t let Fournier near the rotation but have at it if he’s your choice.
And yeah, I’m down for IQ Grimes McBride getting 45+ minutes in an OT game, that’s normal’ish
Fournier is a sunk cost so who cares, pretty much every team has a contract like his or worse, it’s not a reason to play him.
Knixkik wrote:I think this team is an elite bench piece away from being pretty good. The starting lineup is good. The bench is ok. The missing piece to becoming great will continue to be a star, but this team can still grow and be really good with just minor upgrades and development.
The real question is to tank or not. And then what to do with the current roster based on that choice. The glut of look-like useful players is overload and the bottom of this year's bench is worthless.
IMO, the answer to the first question is not to tank. This is not to say that we're winning anything soon but that winning is a direction we haven't tried in a long time. And its only with winning that the premium players will consider landing here.
Taking this direction eliminates the need for a different coach. The approach needs to be to identify keepers and use the rest of the roster as trade bait with the intent to harden the number and quality of complementary players. And, like Miami often does, nurture the end of the bench with hungry, flawed mutts that are signed to be pit bulls.
This won't win a championship but it adds value to players by being associated with winning and competing.
Let it roll.
fwk00 wrote:Knixkik wrote:I think this team is an elite bench piece away from being pretty good. The starting lineup is good. The bench is ok. The missing piece to becoming great will continue to be a star, but this team can still grow and be really good with just minor upgrades and development.
The real question is to tank or not. And then what to do with the current roster based on that choice. The glut of look-like useful players is overload and the bottom of this year's bench is worthless.
IMO, the answer to the first question is not to tank. This is not to say that we're winning anything soon but that winning is a direction we haven't tried in a long time. And its only with winning that the premium players will consider landing here.
Taking this direction eliminates the need for a different coach. The approach needs to be to identify keepers and use the rest of the roster as trade bait with the intent to harden the number and quality of complementary players. And, like Miami often does, nurture the end of the bench with hungry, flawed mutts that are signed to be pit bulls.
This won't win a championship but it adds value to players by being associated with winning and competing.
Let it roll.
From a team building perspective, I’d love to see the Knicks use both first round picks this year and draft one player they are comfortable with as more of a role playing contributor, and the other pick on a high risk - reward player who offers more upside but less certainty. This is an opportunity to gamble, and there’s always a guy in the middle of the first round to gamble on with major upside but red flags.
Example. Gradey Dick as a plug and play shooter with one pick. Dariq Whitehead with the other pick as a long term risk/ reward pick.
