Knicks · Has RJ become bad Melo? (page 1)
Rookie wrote:He is a black hole if you pass him the ball. He has become a really selfish player only wanting to score the ball. He doesn't rebound or do anything to support the team except score. His man and help defense is poor. He turns the ball over, sometimes, at the worst time and those lazy bone headed passes for turnovers are head slippers. He has become an inefficient volume shooter who doesn’t support the team in any other way. Very selfish player who’s head isn’t always in the game. Other than get down hill to the rim, what does he provide to help the team? Atleast Melo was an elite scorer. Neither Melo or RJ make anyone else better. RJ has become a selfish inefficient chucker and a bad version of Melo.
Per 100 possessions, Barrett's rebounding, assists and TO's are near indistinguishable from his career numbers. Nothing about them suggests he's "become" or "becoming" anything he wasn't since day 1.
But you do you...
Knickoftime wrote:Rookie wrote:He is a black hole if you pass him the ball. He has become a really selfish player only wanting to score the ball. He doesn't rebound or do anything to support the team except score. His man and help defense is poor. He turns the ball over, sometimes, at the worst time and those lazy bone headed passes for turnovers are head slippers. He has become an inefficient volume shooter who doesn’t support the team in any other way. Very selfish player who’s head isn’t always in the game. Other than get down hill to the rim, what does he provide to help the team? Atleast Melo was an elite scorer. Neither Melo or RJ make anyone else better. RJ has become a selfish inefficient chucker and a bad version of Melo.Per 100 possessions, Barrett's rebounding, assists and TO's are near indistinguishable from his career numbers. Nothing about them suggests he's "become" or "becoming" anything he wasn't since day 1.
But you do you...
Fair point. So then RJ ‘is’ bad Melo. The only improvement I see is he is making more shots at the basket. Last year he lead the league in getting his shot blocked
Rookie wrote:He is a black hole if you pass him the ball. He has become a really selfish player only wanting to score the ball. He doesn't rebound or do anything to support the team except score. His man and help defense is poor. He turns the ball over, sometimes, at the worst time and those lazy bone headed passes for turnovers are head slippers. He has become an inefficient volume shooter who doesn’t support the team in any other way. Very selfish player who’s head isn’t always in the game. Other than get down hill to the rim, what does he provide to help the team? Atleast Melo was an elite scorer. Neither Melo or RJ make anyone else better. RJ has become a selfish inefficient chucker and a bad version of Melo.
He is all of those things you said. Minus one, he is still young and that's his Only excuse. I want to support him. I still can for another year maybe. Those 20 points per game he can stick up his behind if they come off of being a black hole with low efficiency. If that's how he does it he is THE reason why we cannot be a better team. I say this with the best intentions and I really hope he can figure this out to help us in the future
Knixkik wrote:The timing of all of the RJ hate is weird. The Knicks are good and RJ has been a big reason why. I think since Randle is playing well than Barrett has to be the fall guy for the fan base now. That being said, you’re right about a lot of what you said.
You are right, there has been criticism. But it's been constructive The kid needs to go through the thorns to get to the top. Hence the nitpicking
ramtour420 wrote:Knixkik wrote:The timing of all of the RJ hate is weird. The Knicks are good and RJ has been a big reason why. I think since Randle is playing well than Barrett has to be the fall guy for the fan base now. That being said, you’re right about a lot of what you said.You are right, there has been criticism. But it's been constructive The kid needs to go through the thorns to get to the top. Hence the nitpicking
Not sure if I would refer to the OP in this thread as nitpicking nor constructive. Seems like he and others think RJ is utter worthless trash. Here are the comments broken down for convenience.....
- He is a black hole
- He has become a really selfish player
- He doesn't rebound or do anything to support the team except score
- His man and help defense is poor.
- He turns the ball over, sometimes, at the worst time
- those lazy bone headed passes for turnovers are head slippers.
- He has become an inefficient volume shooter who doesn’t support the team in any other way.
- Very selfish player who’s head isn’t always in the game.
- Other than get down hill to the rim, what does he provide to help the team?
- RJ has become a selfish inefficient chucker and a bad version of Melo.
I agree that RJ needs to think more about setting up his teammates. But he's a long way fron "ISO Melo". He isnt the number one option, isnt getting most of the touches.
RJ's development has taken longer than I expected, but at 22, Im not overly concerned.
foosballnick wrote:ramtour420 wrote:Knixkik wrote:The timing of all of the RJ hate is weird. The Knicks are good and RJ has been a big reason why. I think since Randle is playing well than Barrett has to be the fall guy for the fan base now. That being said, you’re right about a lot of what you said.You are right, there has been criticism. But it's been constructive The kid needs to go through the thorns to get to the top. Hence the nitpicking
Not sure if I would refer to the OP in this thread as nitpicking nor constructive. Seems like he and others think RJ is utter worthless trash. Here are the comments broken down for convenience.....
- He is a black hole
- He has become a really selfish player
- He doesn't rebound or do anything to support the team except score
- His man and help defense is poor.
- He turns the ball over, sometimes, at the worst time
- those lazy bone headed passes for turnovers are head slippers.
- He has become an inefficient volume shooter who doesn’t support the team in any other way.
- Very selfish player who’s head isn’t always in the game.
- Other than get down hill to the rim, what does he provide to help the team?
- RJ has become a selfish inefficient chucker and a bad version of Melo.
I think I left out - possibly low IQ player who forces the situation instead of reading it and reacting to it.
Possesses no elite skill or physical attribute.
Positives only
- needs to become a better passer
- needs to work on dribbling with his head up and reading the floor
- needs to improve rebounding
- needs to reduce turnovers
- needs to improve focus and effort for the entire time he is on the floor
We already saw that come playoff time Thibs will make changes if he thinks it will improve our chances of winning. We also saw that was the beginning of the end for Elf. If Barrett moves to the bench it is a signal that his time is short here, something none of us wants but might be inevitable
he needs to focus on a full effort in all apsects and the scoring will be what it's supposed to be, but fans will love him.
he's been in a rough stretch but hopefully he snaps out of it
Knixkik wrote:The timing of all of the RJ hate is weird. The Knicks are good and RJ has been a big reason why. I think since Randle is playing well than Barrett has to be the fall guy for the fan base now. That being said, you’re right about a lot of what you said.
Timing isn't weird at all.
There ALWAYS HAS to be SOMEONE.
It's a need a certain fan has.
Knixkik wrote:Something to consider, Barrett was the 3rd pick in the draft and drafted to be a star like every other high lottery pick. If at some point it’s clear he’s not headed to stardom, he will have to adjust his game to switch more into a role player. It’s much different than guys like Mikal Bridge and OG Aunuoby who are drafted to be role players and they become elite role players over time. Barrett may have to eventually make the transition.
Knicks coaching staff isn't putting him in the starting line-up every night if he's defying his instructions/breaking plays.
His usage and shot volume is by design and approval.
No, it isn't up to him to adjust and switch. Its up to the coaching stuff to make him.
Chandler wrote:Personally i think RJ is pressing too much to be a 20+/game scorerhe needs to focus on a full effort in all apsects and the scoring will be what it's supposed to be, but fans will love him.
he's been in a rough stretch but hopefully he snaps out of it
I agree, he's definitely pressing too much.
But thats the issue when you are not a 2 way player. RJ is currently 1 way right now (offense) and when that offense isn't working, you have a player thats not impacting the team on offense or defense, yet he's getting the 2nd or 3rd highest minute total on the team.
If we look at the big 3 and remove their offensive scoring impact, what else do they provide?
- JB (assists)
- Jules (rebounds)
- RJ (?????)
This is why I prefer 2-way players, since they can alwasy rely on their defense when their shot isn't going down. At least they can make sure their man isn't scoring. But our big 3, in RJ's case for sure, if he's not scoring it puts more strain on the team because his man is cooking.
What I like about Hart, and other 2-way players on the rise (Grimes, IQ, Deuce, etc..) They have their defense to lean on.
RJ needs to either, improve his defense or playmaking or both. Just being a scorer isn't enough for a 3rd wheel next to 2 solid scorers. We need that 3rd wheel to do more than just score. Which is why Hart's impact stands out so much. He impacts the game in so many different ways besides scoring. And when Hart hit those 3's it's like icing on a cake. RJ seems to start with the icing (3's or jumpers), but we need more cake (playmaking, defense, assist, etc...)
blkexec wrote:Chandler wrote:Personally i think RJ is pressing too much to be a 20+/game scorerhe needs to focus on a full effort in all apsects and the scoring will be what it's supposed to be, but fans will love him.
he's been in a rough stretch but hopefully he snaps out of it
I agree, he's definitely pressing too much.
But thats the issue when you are not a 2 way player. RJ is currently 1 way right now (offense) and when that offense isn't working, you have a player thats not impacting the team on offense or defense, yet he's getting the 2nd or 3rd highest minute total on the team.
If we look at the big 3 and remove their offensive scoring impact, what else do they provide?
- JB (assists)
- Jules (rebounds)
- RJ (?????)This is why I prefer 2-way players, since they can alwasy rely on their defense when their shot isn't going down. At least they can make sure their man isn't scoring. But our big 3, in RJ's case for sure, if he's not scoring it puts more strain on the team because his man is cooking.
What I like about Hart, and other 2-way players on the rise (Grimes, IQ, Deuce, etc..) They have their defense to lean on.
RJ needs to either, improve his defense or playmaking or both. Just being a scorer isn't enough for a 3rd wheel next to 2 solid scorers. We need that 3rd wheel to do more than just score. Which is why Hart's impact stands out so much. He impacts the game in so many different ways besides scoring. And when Hart hit those 3's it's like icing on a cake. RJ seems to start with the icing (3's or jumpers), but we need more cake (playmaking, defense, assist, etc...)
Mmmmm, cake. (. I am on Keto right now)
Knixkik wrote:The timing of all of the RJ hate is weird. The Knicks are good and RJ has been a big reason why. I think since Randle is playing well than Barrett has to be the fall guy for the fan base now. That being said, you’re right about a lot of what you said.I dont think it's hate. Its looking at the roster and growing and areas of opportunity and improvement. Except Kemet who doesnt count I think everyone here likes RJ.
Here's the thing though... Knicks are a decent team. With Mitch we have shown to be a very good team. Lots of quality wins. Lots of young guys in the rotation as well, so there's implied upside.
However when you look at how to get better, and you look at the roster RJ's #s are painful to look at. Of all the guys in the rotation only Deuce has a lower EFG% than RJ, and he's very close to taking the same amount of shots as Brunson/Randle.
Combine that with the fact that other areas of his game say rebounding or defense are not carrying the amount of missed buckets. We all know and acknowledge he's quite the bucket getter when he's hot.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
The problem is RJ hasnt gotten better in any kind of increment at anything. That's the worrisome part about RJ here in year 4. We are hoping for the same things from him as the last 3 years
ramtour420 wrote:blkexec wrote:Chandler wrote:Personally i think RJ is pressing too much to be a 20+/game scorerhe needs to focus on a full effort in all apsects and the scoring will be what it's supposed to be, but fans will love him.
he's been in a rough stretch but hopefully he snaps out of it
I agree, he's definitely pressing too much.
But thats the issue when you are not a 2 way player. RJ is currently 1 way right now (offense) and when that offense isn't working, you have a player thats not impacting the team on offense or defense, yet he's getting the 2nd or 3rd highest minute total on the team.
If we look at the big 3 and remove their offensive scoring impact, what else do they provide?
- JB (assists)
- Jules (rebounds)
- RJ (?????)This is why I prefer 2-way players, since they can alwasy rely on their defense when their shot isn't going down. At least they can make sure their man isn't scoring. But our big 3, in RJ's case for sure, if he's not scoring it puts more strain on the team because his man is cooking.
What I like about Hart, and other 2-way players on the rise (Grimes, IQ, Deuce, etc..) They have their defense to lean on.
RJ needs to either, improve his defense or playmaking or both. Just being a scorer isn't enough for a 3rd wheel next to 2 solid scorers. We need that 3rd wheel to do more than just score. Which is why Hart's impact stands out so much. He impacts the game in so many different ways besides scoring. And when Hart hit those 3's it's like icing on a cake. RJ seems to start with the icing (3's or jumpers), but we need more cake (playmaking, defense, assist, etc...)
Mmmmm, cake. (. I am on Keto right now)
No matter how bad a game RJ is having, I'm more comfortable with him shooting when they need a basket than anyone else on the team, other than Brunson. That counts for something. He also ran the offense the other night got what, 10 straight points while facilitating(he did I remember Quick playing off ball at least a few posessions).
blkexec wrote:Chandler wrote:Personally i think RJ is pressing too much to be a 20+/game scorerhe needs to focus on a full effort in all apsects and the scoring will be what it's supposed to be, but fans will love him.
he's been in a rough stretch but hopefully he snaps out of it
I agree, he's definitely pressing too much.
But thats the issue when you are not a 2 way player. RJ is currently 1 way right now (offense) and when that offense isn't working, you have a player thats not impacting the team on offense or defense, yet he's getting the 2nd or 3rd highest minute total on the team.
If we look at the big 3 and remove their offensive scoring impact, what else do they provide?
- JB (assists)
- Jules (rebounds)
- RJ (?????)This is why I prefer 2-way players, since they can alwasy rely on their defense when their shot isn't going down. At least they can make sure their man isn't scoring. But our big 3, in RJ's case for sure, if he's not scoring it puts more strain on the team because his man is cooking.
What I like about Hart, and other 2-way players on the rise (Grimes, IQ, Deuce, etc..) They have their defense to lean on.
RJ needs to either, improve his defense or playmaking or both. Just being a scorer isn't enough for a 3rd wheel next to 2 solid scorers. We need that 3rd wheel to do more than just score. Which is why Hart's impact stands out so much. He impacts the game in so many different ways besides scoring. And when Hart hit those 3's it's like icing on a cake. RJ seems to start with the icing (3's or jumpers), but we need more cake (playmaking, defense, assist, etc...)
What metrics are you and others using to rate players in terms of Defensive effectiveness? For instance, the Knicks pretty much play a continually switching D. How is someone able to judge singular player defensive effectiveness based on continual variability in opposition even within one offensive possession? Couple other points:
- RJ actually appears to be a very decent defensive rebounder for a wing player.
- By what standards is Deuce a 2 way player on the rise - meaning how is he an impactful offensive player? I would argue that if he had shown more 2-Way potential, the team would likely not have had a need to trade for J. Hart.
Knickoftime wrote:Knixkik wrote:Something to consider, Barrett was the 3rd pick in the draft and drafted to be a star like every other high lottery pick. If at some point it’s clear he’s not headed to stardom, he will have to adjust his game to switch more into a role player. It’s much different than guys like Mikal Bridge and OG Aunuoby who are drafted to be role players and they become elite role players over time. Barrett may have to eventually make the transition.Knicks coaching staff isn't putting him in the starting line-up every night if he's defying his instructions/breaking plays.
His usage and shot volume is by design and approval.
No, it isn't up to him to adjust and switch. Its up to the coaching stuff to make him.
The onus is on both. I'm sure the staff points out the instances where RJ doesn't put in the effort in D, misses a defensive rotation or fails to pass to the open man. Part of the problem is that there weren't many options to go to when RJ is effing up. This team doesn't have the talent. Now that Hart is here that changes a little bit. Let's see how much of a leash the coaching staff gives RJ now.