Knicks · Feels like Knicks are building something similar to the late 90s (page 1)

Can’t compare any team to the prime Ewing Knicks. But in terms of identity and continuity this feels close to the team that ran from the late 90s to very early 2000s. Houston and Sprewell were all-stars but not superstars, and Randle and Brunson sort of feel similar. Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson, Camby, Ward, and Childs were a tough group that all played 5+ years with the team and were appreciated for various reasons. Barrett, Grimes, Quickley, Robinson, and Hart seem like a group of supporting players headed the same path. But most importantly, we can feel confident the roster isn’t going to just flip every couple of years. There’s real continuity here. Hopefully this group can build together and have some playoff success, and trades will be made to add to this group and not rebrand it. Still some work to do, but I’m pretty confident the next successful Knicks team will consist of a majority of these players and it will be sustainable.

Detroit of the early 2000s I think is the best goal. Problem with those Knicks were Ewing was a true star. Plug and play 50 win/2nd round guy.

But those Detroit teams went to 6 straight conference finals and won a chip and they did it without a guy like that. Obviously they had top flight guys in Billups/Ben Wallace/Prince/Sheed/Rip/Hunter etc... but the point is nobody on that team was a top 10 guy. Maybe not even top 20 but they probably had 4 guys in the top 30. Who cares... the point is they always had 6-7 guys on the team who were simply really good on both ends and I think we can accomplish something like that

fishmike wrote:Detroit of the early 2000s I think is the best goal. Problem with those Knicks were Ewing was a true star. Plug and play 50 win/2nd round guy.

But those Detroit teams went to 6 straight conference finals and won a chip and they did it without a guy like that. Obviously they had top flight guys in Billups/Ben Wallace/Prince/Sheed/Rip/Hunter etc... but the point is nobody on that team was a top 10 guy. Maybe not even top 20 but they probably had 4 guys in the top 30. Who cares... the point is they always had 6-7 guys on the team who were simply really good on both ends and I think we can accomplish something like that

I’m not talking about the ewing Knicks though. I’m talking about the Houston/ sprewell led Knicks.

Houston/ sprewell = Brunson/ Randle

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:Detroit of the early 2000s I think is the best goal. Problem with those Knicks were Ewing was a true star. Plug and play 50 win/2nd round guy.

But those Detroit teams went to 6 straight conference finals and won a chip and they did it without a guy like that. Obviously they had top flight guys in Billups/Ben Wallace/Prince/Sheed/Rip/Hunter etc... but the point is nobody on that team was a top 10 guy. Maybe not even top 20 but they probably had 4 guys in the top 30. Who cares... the point is they always had 6-7 guys on the team who were simply really good on both ends and I think we can accomplish something like that

I’m not talking about the ewing Knicks though. I’m talking about the Houston/ sprewell led Knicks.

Houston/ sprewell = Brunson/ Randle

talent wise sure... but those we Knick teams were not well run, starting with like zero player development.

Honestly I love what we are doing. Young team. As many athletic and aggressive 2 way guys as you can get and we are going great there. Brunson is really the only guy getting big minutes who's got a finesse game and lets not confuse that with soft, the guy is tough as phuck. Thibs is the right guy to build these guys up.

Mostly Im curious to see what we do or how we handle RJ/Obi

Reflecting on not so much the late 90s but that era and going back to the Hubie Brown days there are some surface similarities. Defensive oriented coaches with hard nosed, sometimes scrappy players. Ewing was the high profile all star but other players were later picks, undrafted FA's, players in their later careers or seeking redemption. Of course that was an entirely different NBA - Oakley and Mason would be suspended full time now. But I think both eras are easy to root for, despite the whining of some who crave superstars and that we win every quarter.

some 20 games into the 01-02 season Van gundy bolted. Chaney took over then.
H20 era overlapped with Ewing while he was still relevant peaking with the 99' short season going to the finals.
Thibs was on the bench then (96-04).
We never built thru yoot.
I think you'll see many changes this off season as one or two of Obi, Grimes, IQ, Duece might be moved.
Its not my preference. If we are to elevate tough choices will need to be made and consolidation/Risks need to occur.

Nalod wrote:some 20 games into the 01-02 season Van gundy bolted. Chaney took over then.
H20 era overlapped with Ewing while he was still relevant peaking with the 99' short season going to the finals.
Thibs was on the bench then (96-04).
We never built thru yoot.
I think you'll see many changes this off season as one or two of Obi, Grimes, IQ, Duece might be moved.
Its not my preference. If we are to elevate tough choices will need to be made and consolidation/Risks need to occur.

Agreed. This team is built differently than that one. The good vibes feel similar though where you feel like there’s some overachieve-ability to it. We will see what happens because after this season the expectation will be to propel to contender status using picks etc to get there.

Nalod wrote:some 20 games into the 01-02 season Van gundy bolted. Chaney took over then.
H20 era overlapped with Ewing while he was still relevant peaking with the 99' short season going to the finals.
Thibs was on the bench then (96-04).
We never built thru yoot.
I think you'll see many changes this off season as one or two of Obi, Grimes, IQ, Duece might be moved.
Its not my preference. If we are to elevate tough choices will need to be made and consolidation/Risks need to occur.

They would be crazy to get rid of Quickley

Knixkik wrote:Can’t compare any team to the prime Ewing Knicks. But in terms of identity and continuity this feels close to the team that ran from the late 90s to very early 2000s. Houston and Sprewell were all-stars but not superstars, and Randle and Brunson sort of feel similar. Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson, Camby, Ward, and Childs were a tough group that all played 5+ years with the team and were appreciated for various reasons. Barrett, Grimes, Quickley, Robinson, and Hart seem like a group of supporting players headed the same path. But most importantly, we can feel confident the roster isn’t going to just flip every couple of years. There’s real continuity here. Hopefully this group can build together and have some playoff success, and trades will be made to add to this group and noo)lllt rebrand it. Still some work to do, but I’m pretty confident the next successful Knicks team will consist of a majority of these players and it will be sustainable.

Other than the team name and uniforms I don't think there's much the same. The 99-00 Knicks had an average age of 29 for the top 8 guys, for these guys it's 24. Those guys
had a top defense and middling offense. These guys have a great offense and middle of the pack defense. The biggest difference might be coaching; looking at the roster it seems like those early aught teams won a lot more games than there personnel would suggest, maybe because they were vets. On the flip side, coaching really picks up as teams go from the 3rd to 5th season, so hopefully if Thibs stays we can expect a similar improvement. It also seems like there is a lot higher percentage of minutes going to drafted players now which says something about drafting and development. In the long run that's probably the biggest key to long-term success, not wasting draft picks.

Knixkik wrote:Can’t compare any team to the prime Ewing Knicks. But in terms of identity and continuity this feels close to the team that ran from the late 90s to very early 2000s. Houston and Sprewell were all-stars but not superstars, and Randle and Brunson sort of feel similar. Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson, Camby, Ward, and Childs were a tough group that all played 5+ years with the team and were appreciated for various reasons. Barrett, Grimes, Quickley, Robinson, and Hart seem like a group of supporting players headed the same path. But most importantly, we can feel confident the roster isn’t going to just flip every couple of years. There’s real continuity here. Hopefully this group can build together and have some playoff success, and trades will be made to add to this group and not rebrand it. Still some work to do, but I’m pretty confident the next successful Knicks team will consist of a majority of these players and it will be sustainable.

I believe thibs was the assistant around that time. And the FO most likely hired thibs to bring back that culture. Randle was the cornerstone. Now he has a solid team around him. Someone said Hart is similar to sprewel. I’ve said grimes reminds me of Houston with defense.

And that’s the era I remember most as a knick fan (1990s). Good team and good memories. I agree. We are building something similar but why I think it’s better than the 90s team? Because we are younger and the future is brighter. Loads of picks while developing the yoots. Can’t asked for anything better. Especially comparing to what we had before thibs.

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:some 20 games into the 01-02 season Van gundy bolted. Chaney took over then.
H20 era overlapped with Ewing while he was still relevant peaking with the 99' short season going to the finals.
Thibs was on the bench then (96-04).
We never built thru yoot.
I think you'll see many changes this off season as one or two of Obi, Grimes, IQ, Duece might be moved.
Its not my preference. If we are to elevate tough choices will need to be made and consolidation/Risks need to occur.

Agreed. This team is built differently than that one. The good vibes feel similar though where you feel like there’s some overachieve-ability to it. We will see what happens because after this season the expectation will be to propel to contender status using picks etc to get there.

Great point about expectations will be higher. Even now, sports writers are saying we a top 8 team? Let’s see how we handle those expectations over the second half of the season, post all star weekend. Will hart continue to shoot 60% from 3? What happens if he falls back to his average. I believe we have something special. A team of overachievers is a good way to describe this teams recent play. It’s like everybody has a chip on their shoulder. Brunson not making the playoffs turned out to be a good thing because since the snub, he’s improved.

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Nalod wrote:some 20 games into the 01-02 season Van gundy bolted. Chaney took over then.
H20 era overlapped with Ewing while he was still relevant peaking with the 99' short season going to the finals.
Thibs was on the bench then (96-04).
We never built thru yoot.
I think you'll see many changes this off season as one or two of Obi, Grimes, IQ, Duece might be moved.
Its not my preference. If we are to elevate tough choices will need to be made and consolidation/Risks need to occur.

Agreed. This team is built differently than that one. The good vibes feel similar though where you feel like there’s some overachieve-ability to it. We will see what happens because after this season the expectation will be to propel to contender status using picks etc to get there.

Great point about expectations will be higher. Even now, sports writers are saying we a top 8 team? Let’s see how we handle those expectations over the second half of the season, post all star weekend. Will hart continue to shoot 60% from 3? What happens if he falls back to his average. I believe we have something special. A team of overachievers is a good way to describe this teams recent play. It’s like everybody has a chip on their shoulder. Brunson not making the playoffs turned out to be a good thing because since the snub, he’s improved.

Knicks may or may not make noise in the playoffs. But when you look at Brunson and Randle’s stats this year, there will be some concern for regression next year. Last time the Knicks wanted to take a step they signed Kemba and Fournier. This time I’m sure they will be smarter. I know it’s putting the cart before the horse a bit, but the Knicks will need to make a move without sacrificing the formula that is working for them now. It’s why I can see them avoiding LaVine but Anunoby and Mikal Bridges names continue to float around regardless of how realistic or far fetched.

blkexec wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Can’t compare any team to the prime Ewing Knicks. But in terms of identity and continuity this feels close to the team that ran from the late 90s to very early 2000s. Houston and Sprewell were all-stars but not superstars, and Randle and Brunson sort of feel similar. Kurt Thomas, Larry Johnson, Camby, Ward, and Childs were a tough group that all played 5+ years with the team and were appreciated for various reasons. Barrett, Grimes, Quickley, Robinson, and Hart seem like a group of supporting players headed the same path. But most importantly, we can feel confident the roster isn’t going to just flip every couple of years. There’s real continuity here. Hopefully this group can build together and have some playoff success, and trades will be made to add to this group and not rebrand it. Still some work to do, but I’m pretty confident the next successful Knicks team will consist of a majority of these players and it will be sustainable.

I believe thibs was the assistant around that time. And the FO most likely hired thibs to bring back that culture. Randle was the cornerstone. Now he has a solid team around him. Someone said Hart is similar to sprewel. I’ve said grimes reminds me of Houston with defense.

And that’s the era I remember most as a knick fan (1990s). Good team and good memories. I agree. We are building something similar but why I think it’s better than the 90s team? Because we are younger and the future is brighter. Loads of picks while developing the yoots. Can’t asked for anything better. Especially comparing to what we had before thibs.

I just noted the years Thibs was here.
It was also filled with ewing wanting out and Earnie retooling around him with Camby for oak.
The 99 Season about got JVG fired and the trip to finals kicked in a two year extension at 2mm per. That killed Earnie’s run and he had to go. Imagine, the architect of that team who tried to modernize when they hired Nelson, then again retooled it to run and gun, was fired because the extension. Fact is JVG was at odds with that style and was the wrong coach for that team. Proof? He left in 2001. Thibs was there 8 years and stayed under Chaney.
So there was Thibs who was assitant with JVG under Nelson, under JVG, and Chaney and saw the evolution to the faster game. He helped coach it.
JVG gritty Ewing and Oakly Centric team was effective but it got old. Literally!!!
I love JVG but in retrospect He should have been the one to go and Earnie stay. One of Dolans early fuck ups.

Read “Blood in the Garden”, a recent book by Chris Herring. Great read about the 90’s knicks and how it unfolded for them by the end of the decade.