Knicks · Is Julius a top 10 PF? Top 5? (page 2)
BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:When he has the right mindset he is The best power forward in the league. When he gets rattled he is not in the top 10 even. I think that's pretty fair
I'd still Giannis over Julius at his best. But everyone else is fair game.
They are close but I like Julius' shooting better. Free throws and the 3pointI can't say they are close. The Freak is arguably the best player in the league. Remember this?
Yes, I remember 😊. Gianni's best season was 2 years ago, when he was 26. He has been on a downtrend of his career for two years now, evidenced by his FG%(58 two years ago, then>56>now it's 54) and his eFG% also(60>58>56). For Randle those numbers are the highest in the last 3 years, so he is trending up this year. Fg% 46, eFG %53. One could argue that Giannis' numbers are still better but for me Randle gets his in ISO, which is harder and Randle is a better shooter. Long 2s and 3s. If you take their contracts into consideration it also has an effect on their position if we use " best" or " not best" classification. So while it's easy to argue that Giannis is number one I don't think you can say that it's not close. Another thing I said specifically about Randle being #1 when his mental state is right. He has an incredible impact on the team at those times
technomaster wrote:Durability is something not factored in major awards. I find it laughable that Giannis and Embiid are among the top contenders and have missed 20% or so of their games.I suppose it’s worth noting that at least in some stats, they still have higher totals than Randle (for example, Jokic has many more assists in spite of fewer games.
Thinking in terms of all NBA teams, it’d be remiss if the voters didn’t factor games played.
This year, I’d say:
Sabonis and Randle at the top of the list. Sabonis basically is the main hall distributor on the Kings and is a killer rebounder. I think he may already have had a better NBA career than his dad and is picking away at career achievements.These next guys have missed in the neighborhood of 10-15% of their games.
Markkanen
Siakim
How do you rank Giannis? He has played 55/70 games - basically 21% missed.
But he’s so awesome that his team mostly wins when he plays and you have a clear comparison of how the team does without him.
His pops did not begin his NBA career until he was 31. His NBA career he avg 24 min per game. His stats were not great but the context of who he as at that time and the Team he came to play on was as a supporting role.
He retired at age 36 and came back at 38 for another season.
His best years were in Europe and we know those stats can be different as well as it was a different era then there also. He is considered one of the GOATs to have not played here in his prime. Much of it was Soviet era red army team were he made his cred. Have to go on those who wrote about him.
As for the “all time greats”, He is entering Bernard King Territory if we can make some noise on playoffs. Another 4 years at this level he will clime up the ladders, and Career with knick ladders.
Then there are those who are in the Hall of Fame ladders. Those all time leaders are all HOF. Just because he is on that list won’t make him that.
I know NYMentality deductive style of stats with a desired destination to prove a point is nice, and to be happy about the current state of play is not a bad thing at all, but reality is we are playing nice ball, excuse me, “Really nice ball” just a few months. Lets see where it goes and how it ends.
Its a fun season! Sometimes the journey is more fun than the destination!
ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:When he has the right mindset he is The best power forward in the league. When he gets rattled he is not in the top 10 even. I think that's pretty fair
I'd still Giannis over Julius at his best. But everyone else is fair game.
They are close but I like Julius' shooting better. Free throws and the 3pointI can't say they are close. The Freak is arguably the best player in the league. Remember this?
Yes, I remember 😊. Gianni's best season was 2 years ago, when he was 26. He has been on a downtrend of his career for two years now, evidenced by his FG%(58 two years ago, then>56>now it's 54) and his eFG% also(60>58>56). For Randle those numbers are the highest in the last 3 years, so he is trending up this year. Fg% 46, eFG %53. One could argue that Giannis' numbers are still better but for me Randle gets his in ISO, which is harder and Randle is a better shooter. Long 2s and 3s. If you take their contracts into consideration it also has an effect on their position if we use " best" or " not best" classification. So while it's easy to argue that Giannis is number one I don't think you can say that it's not close. Another thing I said specifically about Randle being #1 when his mental state is right. He has an incredible impact on the team at those times
Randle gets his in Iso, while Giannis gets his with a minimum of 2 to 3 people on him at halfcourt. And the playmaking and defense. And the positional flexibility. It's not close.
BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:When he has the right mindset he is The best power forward in the league. When he gets rattled he is not in the top 10 even. I think that's pretty fair
I'd still Giannis over Julius at his best. But everyone else is fair game.
They are close but I like Julius' shooting better. Free throws and the 3pointI can't say they are close. The Freak is arguably the best player in the league. Remember this?
Yes, I remember 😊. Gianni's best season was 2 years ago, when he was 26. He has been on a downtrend of his career for two years now, evidenced by his FG%(58 two years ago, then>56>now it's 54) and his eFG% also(60>58>56). For Randle those numbers are the highest in the last 3 years, so he is trending up this year. Fg% 46, eFG %53. One could argue that Giannis' numbers are still better but for me Randle gets his in ISO, which is harder and Randle is a better shooter. Long 2s and 3s. If you take their contracts into consideration it also has an effect on their position if we use " best" or " not best" classification. So while it's easy to argue that Giannis is number one I don't think you can say that it's not close. Another thing I said specifically about Randle being #1 when his mental state is right. He has an incredible impact on the team at those times
Randle gets his in Iso, while Giannis gets his with a minimum of 2 to 3 people on him at halfcourt. And the playmaking and defense. And the positional flexibility. It's not close.
Since we don't have an established criteria for what "best" means, then any argument becomes subjective. They are both All-Stars so I say it is close.
Not a slight at all to say Jules is a very talented player. Better shooter than Giannis.
But the physical ability for him is generational amazing. Jules has the handle, the spin, the moves, and very good getting to the rim.
As a player, is fundamentally better.
But then comes that 7 foot freaky length with hops, and defense to impose his will on the game. HOF bound.
Randle? Allstar.
Yes, both are all stars. Not saying Giannis on mount rushmore.
But........
The big one is Finals MVP.
Only non HOF listed are
1. Chanucy Billups
2. Igudala
3. Tony Parker.
Thats it. Parker is a finalist to be elected in this class. That he is there is impressive itself, but let time determine if he gets the votes.
The other two im not thinking are.
I would not put Randle in the same convo as Giannis. Yes, both are all stars. THere are different levels. Very different. Its not close. On paper it might appear. ITs not.
I appreciate the home town love for Randle. He might be underrated, but not there are degrees to consider.
BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:BigDaddyG wrote:ramtour420 wrote:When he has the right mindset he is The best power forward in the league. When he gets rattled he is not in the top 10 even. I think that's pretty fair
I'd still Giannis over Julius at his best. But everyone else is fair game.
They are close but I like Julius' shooting better. Free throws and the 3pointI can't say they are close. The Freak is arguably the best player in the league. Remember this?
Yes, I remember 😊. Gianni's best season was 2 years ago, when he was 26. He has been on a downtrend of his career for two years now, evidenced by his FG%(58 two years ago, then>56>now it's 54) and his eFG% also(60>58>56). For Randle those numbers are the highest in the last 3 years, so he is trending up this year. Fg% 46, eFG %53. One could argue that Giannis' numbers are still better but for me Randle gets his in ISO, which is harder and Randle is a better shooter. Long 2s and 3s. If you take their contracts into consideration it also has an effect on their position if we use " best" or " not best" classification. So while it's easy to argue that Giannis is number one I don't think you can say that it's not close. Another thing I said specifically about Randle being #1 when his mental state is right. He has an incredible impact on the team at those times
Randle gets his in Iso, while Giannis gets his with a minimum of 2 to 3 people on him at halfcourt. And the playmaking and defense. And the positional flexibility. It's not close.
Gotta say that Greek presents a bigger nightmare for opposing teams. Guy can only be stopped by multiple defenders. Which creates opportunities for his team mates. One of the positive characteristics I have been saying Randle possesses as well. But Greek does it at a much higher level. Additionally, the claim that Greek's shooting percentages are diminishing, does not mention why. Which is mostly due to the his 3pt percentage. Something we can say Randle is better than him at. Imho, That does not mean that, when he needs a bucket, he is less effective than what he was two years ago. He is still one of the hardest to stop when going to the basket.
I think Randle is top 10 among current power forwards. If his basketball IQ improves and he can continue to improve his three point percentage (mainly by taking better and less 3pt shots), he is top 5 easily. However, the reason he is my favorite power forward is because he wears a NY Knick uniform. He wants to be here and he is the physical part of our equation.
Privately…come on….
KnickDanger wrote:Publicly I say Randle is on my team and better than the Freak and everybody!Privately;.
Who do you rank as your Top 3 NBA PF's?
Come on.
Tell us.
Because Julius Randle is already (easily) a top 10 NBA BIG (PF's/C's combined) and a top 5 BIG this year.