Seems fair..
https://theathletic.com/4700709/2023/07/...
Tier 4: Play-In Battleground
13. New York Knicks (10)Key additions (including re-signs):
Donte DiVincenzo (Golden State)
Key subtractions:
Derrick Rose (Memphis)
Obi Toppin (Indiana)
Pressing question: What’s the next evolution for this Knicks team?
The Knicks went into this offseason and decided they’re pretty much good where they are. They had a fun first-round destruction of the Cavs before they got smacked by Miami. They believe Jalen Brunson is their star and Julius Randle can be his No. 2. I’m just not certain their ceiling actually goes beyond what we saw last season. They have depth and an identity, which is more than you can say for most teams. I just wonder if this squad is capable of evolving further or if they’re just waiting for a disgruntled star to become available. We don’t hear a lot about the Knicks pursuing the big guns. Maybe we should again.
How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
Sounds like a fair assessment to me. Does it really matter if we win 50 or more games if we can’t advance beyond the 2nd round?
franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
Fair that we arent ranked as contenders. That the FO has yet to make a move that would have the Knicks ranked higher. DiVincenzo might turn out to be a valuable role player, wouldnt surprise me.
What would surprise me, is if it was enough to take us to the next level, a higher round in the playoffs. We still have too many guards. Not enough scoring bigs.
The article suggests that we need another "big gun" to get to the next level. Agree with that. The FO likely does as well. Its about how they get there and when
franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
i think its fair, we need one of our big young 3 (grimes, RJ, IQ) to reach their CEILING if we are going to be true contenders with this roster. as it stands we cant expect to play as well as we did with Hart all year. I think within 2 wins of the ECF is indeed more or less our ceiling... unless like i said someone steps up big time. Which I do think is possible.
and thats fine with me, to go from where we were a few years ago to now having a young, borderline contending roster with a true superstar and being 1 piece (either internal or external) from being a legit contender is all you can ask for.
nycericanguy wrote:franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
i think its fair, we need one of our big young 3 (grimes, RJ, IQ) to reach their CEILING if we are going to be true contenders with this roster. as it stands we cant expect to play as well as we did with Hart all year. I think within 2 wins of the ECF is indeed more or less our ceiling... unless like i said someone steps up big time. Which I do think is possible.
and thats fine with me, to go from where we were a few years ago to now having a young, borderline contending roster with a true superstar and being 1 piece (either internal or external) from being a legit contender is all you can ask for.
So I think the fairness remark was against the backdrop of the author tagging the Knicks as a "Play-In Battleground" versus contender type team.
I'd venture to say that the Knicks are more on the cusp of pushing towards EC finals more than Play-in type team all things being equal. Definitely in the 4-6 range than 6-10 range.
It's fair. I think on paper we are still in that 45 win, 5th or 6th spot (Miami, Boston, Milwaukee, Philly are all flat out better and Cleveland improved too). But injuries, mid season trades and other unexpected variables always come into play. I hope nobody is expecting a 55 win season. I know we played that way after we acquired Hart but it's a small sample size and we don't have 55 win talent imo. I also don't see DiVincenzo having much of an impact either. And keep in mind we haven't made the playoffs in back to back seasons since 2012 and 2013. I could easily see us taking a step back next season.
This will be Thibs's 4th year with relatively little roster turnover. Should be good enough to squeak out a few extra wins. Nothing to really say until the games begin.
gradyandrew wrote:This will be Thibs's 4th year with relatively little roster turnover. Should be good enough to squeak out a few extra wins. Nothing to really say until the games begin.
Feel like this is the first year where that will really help too. Guys are on the brink of something good IMHO
Seems fair. Last year we had to be a surprise / overachieving team to land where we did. We will need to do it again next year to outpace what we did last year. Taking "steps back" or staying neutral is common when teams don't make a ton of moves in the offseason. Miami was the 1 seed and last year was the 8 seed and a game away from eliminated in the playin. Around the same win total and even a loss in the first round is pretty fair prediction that we will need to overachieve to outpace IMO.
If we don't make any moves, and Thibs is willing to adapt some small ball with this current rotation (Hart/RJ getting some 4 minutes, playing 3 guard lineups etc.), I think we could be a more dangerous team than last year but that doesn't mean we will face a flatfooted team in the first round again.
who cares. Program looks good, but Knicks havent won shit. I conference finals trip next year would be nice
nycericanguy wrote:franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
i think its fair, we need one of our big young 3 (grimes, RJ, IQ) to reach their CEILING if we are going to be true contenders with this roster. as it stands we cant expect to play as well as we did with Hart all year. I think within 2 wins of the ECF is indeed more or less our ceiling... unless like i said someone steps up big time. Which I do think is possible.
and thats fine with me, to go from where we were a few years ago to now having a young, borderline contending roster with a true superstar and being 1 piece (either internal or external) from being a legit contender is all you can ask for.
I agree with this. I didn't see a wins prediction and didn't see the whole article. I saw we were 10th but I don't know who was in front or behind. The team was pretty healthy last year and Josh Hart played out of his mind after the trade deadline. I agree unless we get a big jump from one of the players you mentioned or Randle returns to being a high 30s or 40% shooter from 3 I think its fair
EwingPSD wrote:nycericanguy wrote:franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
i think its fair, we need one of our big young 3 (grimes, RJ, IQ) to reach their CEILING if we are going to be true contenders with this roster. as it stands we cant expect to play as well as we did with Hart all year. I think within 2 wins of the ECF is indeed more or less our ceiling... unless like i said someone steps up big time. Which I do think is possible.
and thats fine with me, to go from where we were a few years ago to now having a young, borderline contending roster with a true superstar and being 1 piece (either internal or external) from being a legit contender is all you can ask for.
I agree with this. I didn't see a wins prediction and didn't see the whole article. I saw we were 10th but I don't know who was in front or behind. The team was pretty healthy last year and Josh Hart played out of his mind after the trade deadline. I agree unless we get a big jump from one of the players you mentioned or Randle returns to being a high 30s or 40% shooter from 3 I think its fair
that site is paywalled. Can someone post the teams that are ahead of us? Philly could be a mess if Harden does the same routine he did in Houston when he wanted to get traded and they have a new coach. Miami had depth issues and lost 2 rotation players. Milwaukee has a new coach. Boston lost Smart and added a player who runs out of gas come playoff time if he's not injured. Toronto didn't get better, same with Chicago. Atlanta and Brooklyn still don't scare me. Maybe Charlotte and Orlando surprise. Detroit and Washington still suck
Yea our ceiling is pretty similar to where we overachieved to last year I think. The thing about standing pat with this roster is that our floor is still a playin team. Hard to play to your ceiling every year. Sometimes you will only play to your floor. A star trade raises the floor. So does an organic star emerging from our young crop.
DLeethal wrote:Yea our ceiling is pretty similar to where we overachieved to last year I think. The thing about standing pat with this roster is that our floor is still a playin team. Hard to play to your ceiling every year. Sometimes you will only play to your floor. A star trade raises the floor. So does an organic star emerging from our young crop.
im ok running it back though because we have tons of room for internal growth.
Grimes and RJ particularly I think will be improved next year significantly.
DLeethal wrote:Yea our ceiling is pretty similar to where we overachieved to last year I think. The thing about standing pat with this roster is that our floor is still a playin team. Hard to play to your ceiling every year. Sometimes you will only play to your floor. A star trade raises the floor. So does an organic star emerging from our young crop.
Not for me but I’m also not sure it’s firmly at the next level.
Brunson had an enormous adjustment year last year. Playoff RJ. Third year bump Grimes. Full on 6MOY for IQ. Healthy iHart. Spacer DDV running with Josh off bench for full year. Randle not constantly looking over his shoulder at a looming-for-minutes Obi. Another year of continuity.
Those all won’t happen but there is a ton of room for a lot of them to play out.
martin wrote:DLeethal wrote:Yea our ceiling is pretty similar to where we overachieved to last year I think. The thing about standing pat with this roster is that our floor is still a playin team. Hard to play to your ceiling every year. Sometimes you will only play to your floor. A star trade raises the floor. So does an organic star emerging from our young crop.
Not for me but I’m also not sure it’s firmly at the next level.
Brunson had an enormous adjustment year last year. Playoff RJ. Third year bump Grimes. Full on 6MOY for IQ. Healthy iHart. Spacer DDV running with Josh off bench for full year. Randle not constantly looking over his shoulder at a looming-for-minutes Obi. Another year of continuity.
Those all won’t happen but there is a ton of room for a lot of them to play out.
I think there is some room for them to win more games, I'm not sure there's room for them to go deeper in the playoffs but that all depends on matchups.
Rookie wrote:EwingPSD wrote:nycericanguy wrote:franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
i think its fair, we need one of our big young 3 (grimes, RJ, IQ) to reach their CEILING if we are going to be true contenders with this roster. as it stands we cant expect to play as well as we did with Hart all year. I think within 2 wins of the ECF is indeed more or less our ceiling... unless like i said someone steps up big time. Which I do think is possible.
and thats fine with me, to go from where we were a few years ago to now having a young, borderline contending roster with a true superstar and being 1 piece (either internal or external) from being a legit contender is all you can ask for.
I agree with this. I didn't see a wins prediction and didn't see the whole article. I saw we were 10th but I don't know who was in front or behind. The team was pretty healthy last year and Josh Hart played out of his mind after the trade deadline. I agree unless we get a big jump from one of the players you mentioned or Randle returns to being a high 30s or 40% shooter from 3 I think its fair
that site is paywalled. Can someone post the teams that are ahead of us? Philly could be a mess if Harden does the same routine he did in Houston when he wanted to get traded and they have a new coach. Miami had depth issues and lost 2 rotation players. Milwaukee has a new coach. Boston lost Smart and added a player who runs out of gas come playoff time if he's not injured. Toronto didn't get better, same with Chicago. Atlanta and Brooklyn still don't scare me. Maybe Charlotte and Orlando surprise. Detroit and Washington still suck
Nuggets
Bucks
Warriors
Celtics
Suns
Lakers
Heat
Kings
Cavs
Grizzlies
Clippers
Sixers
Knicks
GustavBahler wrote:Rookie wrote:EwingPSD wrote:nycericanguy wrote:franco12 wrote:How is this fair? We were playing at a 50 win pace after we added Josh H? As much as I loved Toppin, did he actually help us win games? And we added DiVincenzo who could impact the team in the same way as Josh.
i think its fair, we need one of our big young 3 (grimes, RJ, IQ) to reach their CEILING if we are going to be true contenders with this roster. as it stands we cant expect to play as well as we did with Hart all year. I think within 2 wins of the ECF is indeed more or less our ceiling... unless like i said someone steps up big time. Which I do think is possible.
and thats fine with me, to go from where we were a few years ago to now having a young, borderline contending roster with a true superstar and being 1 piece (either internal or external) from being a legit contender is all you can ask for.
I agree with this. I didn't see a wins prediction and didn't see the whole article. I saw we were 10th but I don't know who was in front or behind. The team was pretty healthy last year and Josh Hart played out of his mind after the trade deadline. I agree unless we get a big jump from one of the players you mentioned or Randle returns to being a high 30s or 40% shooter from 3 I think its fair
that site is paywalled. Can someone post the teams that are ahead of us? Philly could be a mess if Harden does the same routine he did in Houston when he wanted to get traded and they have a new coach. Miami had depth issues and lost 2 rotation players. Milwaukee has a new coach. Boston lost Smart and added a player who runs out of gas come playoff time if he's not injured. Toronto didn't get better, same with Chicago. Atlanta and Brooklyn still don't scare me. Maybe Charlotte and Orlando surprise. Detroit and Washington still suck
Nuggets
Bucks
Warriors
Celtics
Suns
Lakers
Heat
Kings
Cavs
Grizzlies
Clippers
Sixers
Knicks
Really? the Cavs ahead of us after we eliminated them in the play offs.
Warriors are poised for a flame out.
Lakers too.
Grizzlies with their six shooter?
We have question marks. But so do many of those teams ranked ahead of us.
If we're in the play in range, something bad happened (injury, major under achievement, etc.)
Nothing is guaranteed and I am not going to bet money on the Knicks because I do think we're short. But we're right there with many of those teams.
