Knicks · EvanF (page 6)

Rookie, you forgot to mention Evan Fournier wanted to sign here too, and Kemba 😂😆😂 how you forgot ?

Rookie wrote:

stillafan wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:

you said Grimes was year two and combined him, I didn't I had it correct, the rest you posted is basic information i'm not debating?

They failed in their inheritance, you disagree, i'd love to hear how? Do I really need to type what they inherited in cap, players and picks? did you answer the question on what we got back in return for Noel, Rose, Kemba and Fourn(to date, seems like we need to add)?

I know the timelines, you got it right with Grimes, congrats, why not answer the question that has been posed, don't need a break i've discussed this for quite sometime now.

First moves, horrible

Leon by getting Jalen, Hart, and Ihart, made up for the first blunders, yes that's a good thing unlike our past GM's.

Now we wait for the next moves that to me will define their tenure with this franchise.

OK? If you disagree that they didn't do well, please educate me and let me know how, i'm all for it. I learn from being wrong, and don't take it personally.

thanks

Maybe we're moving somewhere?

Rose has been GM for 3 seasons 20-21, 21-22, 22-23.

What's been the Knicks record since he took over vs. the 3 or 7 years before?

Winning is what's important right? Not so important how we get there.

Would you agree the Knicks have been 80% better since Rose took over vs. the previous 3 years?

I'm happy to defend everything Rose has done since he took over, but that's only because he's shown himself to be way better at the GM gig than you or me.

ok good, i'm leaving this conversation, honestly I hope no one asks more on it lol. Time to move on and discuss our team, I may not have the 100% faith in this FO, but I do have faith and hope and I'm not getting any younger so hopefully before Jalen asks for a huge pay day after two more seasons, we can add to what we have.

I've also wondered what our FO thinks of Mitch/Ihart combo? What a great center tandem, but Ihart is a UFA after this season so an expiring and he came on last year. I know different topic but in line what our FO will do, it's a nice problem but I hope we don't lose Ihart for nothing, been a fan of his for a couple seasons now, actually wanted him before he was even available, I was pretty pleased with that pick and getting Jalen who I wanted since the draft.

Well, you said Rose's first moves were horrible when the Knicks ended up with a 4seed, Randle Most Improved and Second Team All NBA, and Thibs COY. So I just wanted some clarification on what your expectations were when Rose took over after 7 years of futility.

You are of course free to speak on any topic you like.

ok seems like circles but OK, besides Rose what other moves got us the 4th seed that Leon gets credit for? Randle? NO!, RJ? no!, Mitch?, NO!

When you have 63m in cap and you use it on Noel, Rose, Kemba, Fourn, how was that a positive? His first year here I'll give him full credit for Thibs but make no bones about it, Randle if another team bit would have been traded for a bag of donuts, hence the Obi draft pick, and hence all the rumors of moving Randle.

Randle broke out in a huge, huge way, credit thibs, you think Leon would have gotten Rose without Thibs? Don't know the answer but I personally give Thibs more credit there. Those were the main reasons we were a 4th seed coupled with it being a covid season and Knicks pretty much staying healthy.

Again and it's really redundant, if you think 63m in cap, and what we got was a good thing, then yea for you, but I think it was horrible.

After Covid did we or did we not finish a lottery team and have terrible team issues throughout the season with Randle? How in earth did those moves even pretend to be good?

Coming to a tream in March, then during covid being a 4th seed and being embarrassed by the 5th seed and adding only Rose to the main contributors don't say much.

Then finishing in the lottery after that 4th seed, one can say thank you Covid, and thank you Randle for breaking out.

Getting Jalen was the best thing to happen to this Franchise in decades, extremely pleased, not matter how it got done or how Dallas f'd it up, we have him and i'm greatful.

You have not changed my mind Leon bit the dust on his first big moves with that 63m, one big one was signing Fourn when he easily could have had DeRozan who came out in his words and said he wanted to go to the Knicks.

So I'm not sure how many more circles you want to go in, but if you feel what he did with 63m was good , I'll say it again, congrats to you and anyone else, I think i'm more in reality to be frank. I know what we got, who we got and what value we ended up with...........nothing! A lost season and then Jalen and a once again reborn Randle to the rescue.

Next move will be for me my final exam. You know my take, i'm a bit confused on yours in regards to the how he used the 63m but I understand and agree where we are today is amazing, you'd have to be a fool, but I just have different takes on the credit part. I think a moron could have signed Jalen based on the circumstances. Won't go over well in here but hey it's my opinion, and don't mean i'm not tickled to death he's here.

The part you’re missing is that FA’s have to want to sign here. Leon has changed the culture. Randle wanted to extend here. Mitch wanted to extend here. RJ wanted to extend here. FA’s Brunson, iHart and DiVincenzo wanted to sign here. Hart wants to stay here and opted in. All of the small moves add up. Before you know it players are thinking they can win with the Knicks and they want to be here. It’s culture and winning and the Garden and the NY market. Leon and Co did this. We back

I'm not sure I'm missing that part, the difference between extending and locking in and big time FA's coming are totally different. I may just be the biggest Jalen fan around NY, but in no manner when we got him was he considered a big time FA, he sure proved me right though lol.

I follow Mitch, if you catch his tweets before he deletes them they are funny and telling. But yes he signed here took a nice contract when fans and media were arguing if he was even worth the 12m extension. Knicks actually didn't extend him he signed a FA agreement hence the more money. By waiting he allowed the Knicks to make other moves because his cap number was so small.

Randle well he had one all star season, and basically didn't bet on himself, yes he signed the sure thing extension but added in incentives that he has reached already adding to his extended salary. It was a very smart move because i'm not sure after that bad next season how many teams that had cap space may have wanted him and for that money at that time, his value dropped, this we can all agree on. But I know for the longest time players will extend because now the risk of injury and other factors are taken care of. If you actually research not many don't take the money instead of waiting, Lebron is kind of the exception to most rules.

I never said this wasn't a place for FA's to come, we just have not seen it yet. I could be wrong but the last traded big time player was Melo, and he had no issues going to Nets which upped the trade value going back Denver.

Knicks no doubt about it, we are an up and coming team, a team on the rise. The next step for all fans, media, and the Knicks is for that big time FA to want to come and get here. I'm looking forward to it, big time.

I've said this here, Leon impressed me because he could easily have gotten a superstar in PG13, but between the asking price and player saying he wants a 5 year max extension at his age, well bravo to Leon, imo very smart. Sad though because I think he would have been perfect to our leap to contender, but smart, very smart not to jump in on a superstar with those amount of injuries and age.

Rookie wrote:

stillafan wrote:

Rookie wrote:

stillafan wrote:

gradyandrew wrote:

stillafan wrote:

you said Grimes was year two and combined him, I didn't I had it correct, the rest you posted is basic information i'm not debating?

They failed in their inheritance, you disagree, i'd love to hear how? Do I really need to type what they inherited in cap, players and picks? did you answer the question on what we got back in return for Noel, Rose, Kemba and Fourn(to date, seems like we need to add)?

I know the timelines, you got it right with Grimes, congrats, why not answer the question that has been posed, don't need a break i've discussed this for quite sometime now.

First moves, horrible

Leon by getting Jalen, Hart, and Ihart, made up for the first blunders, yes that's a good thing unlike our past GM's.

Now we wait for the next moves that to me will define their tenure with this franchise.

OK? If you disagree that they didn't do well, please educate me and let me know how, i'm all for it. I learn from being wrong, and don't take it personally.

thanks

Maybe we're moving somewhere?

Rose has been GM for 3 seasons 20-21, 21-22, 22-23.

What's been the Knicks record since he took over vs. the 3 or 7 years before?

Winning is what's important right? Not so important how we get there.

Would you agree the Knicks have been 80% better since Rose took over vs. the previous 3 years?

I'm happy to defend everything Rose has done since he took over, but that's only because he's shown himself to be way better at the GM gig than you or me.

ok good, i'm leaving this conversation, honestly I hope no one asks more on it lol. Time to move on and discuss our team, I may not have the 100% faith in this FO, but I do have faith and hope and I'm not getting any younger so hopefully before Jalen asks for a huge pay day after two more seasons, we can add to what we have.

I've also wondered what our FO thinks of Mitch/Ihart combo? What a great center tandem, but Ihart is a UFA after this season so an expiring and he came on last year. I know different topic but in line what our FO will do, it's a nice problem but I hope we don't lose Ihart for nothing, been a fan of his for a couple seasons now, actually wanted him before he was even available, I was pretty pleased with that pick and getting Jalen who I wanted since the draft.

Did you like him like him, or do you Briggs like him?

I will add that draft picks are assets. You can use them in several ways to improve your team. Drafting outside of the top 3 is like gambling and you need to have rotation minutes for your young players to improve. Using picks to either add a player or move salary is still managing assets. Micro analysing each individual, move without taking the whole complex plan and situation into account is just shouting into the wind. At the end of the day the results speak for themselves. We have increased the talent level on this team. We still have assets to continue to upgrade talent on this team. We are now considered a playoff team. We are no longer a national joke are are making an argument for more nationally televised games. We are on a stable steady path to growth. Whoever thought the Knicks and stable franchise would be used in the same sentence. Maybe try and see the forest from the trees and just enjoy the ride. We might make a big deal, we might do nothing more and either way we are still relevant to the playoff picture. Rose and Co are credited with this, gradyandrew has already given you all of the receipts. Now, I’m going to enjoy the beauty of the Blueridge Moutains while I’m still here so peace out.

i'm sorry for being a bit confused but you highlighted the last line with Jalen and went off elsewhere, i'm done with the elsewhere, I have no idea about others enjoyments but I sleep and eat Knicks since 1968 so i'd say i've enjoyed the ride, that don't mean I have to agree about the bumps in the road, right?

Jalen? What exactly are you asking if I liked him?

I was a huge Jalen fan while in college, always like his father. Wanted the Knicks to move up with their 36th pick to nab this kid in the draft.

When we traded KP I wanted jalen not DSJ back in that trade, this is documented in that other forum.

When we were at the deadline and Dallas wasn't extending Jalen for 12m, I was all over the Knicks trade thread pleading that Leon would trade a player with equal value money wise to make the trade and give Dallas their pick or if it took it picks back. I wanted him and would have extended him for 12m for a 4 year term because at the time that was his max extension price by league rules.

I liked him and of course like him now so much I was willing to include Mitch and one Dallas pick for Jalen at the deadline.

Hope that answered your question on Jalen, and guys that came over can vouch for all the above. He's a winner and how that went the way it did in the NBA was head scratching.

The Briggs reference you will get if you stick around through the season and participate in the draft thread. As far as the other bit, I’m am glad you aren’t in charge since you wanted to give up more assets in mock trade proposals than it actually cost us with sober management and patience.

I can debate that even today what would have been more assets or a better trade, simply saying 12m locked in for 4 years free's up a lot of cap to get another player in FA that summer. The pick means nothing, it actually had limited value, we had 19 and 21 and chose Grimes with #25. We could have simply picked Grimes at 21 and then the only thing we would have lost is Cam.
What we also would have had was our #13 pick, correct? I do not believe Mitch on the open market is worth a lottery pick but could be wrong but it's close enough to say, that what I would have given isn't as bad as what you portrayed in your reply. We'd also have Burks and I liked him a lot lol. But he had late first value as well.

I'm really not looking to debate but your comment well not sure why you even went there, if you want me to understand your reference or be able to answer probably why not just ask the direct question?

My point was trying to answer your perceptive question and I even asked if I have it right because honestly I have no idea? And to the point I was trying to explain how much a value Jalen as a player, you went into a different direction, kind of uncalled for imo.

Alpha1971 wrote:Rookie, you forgot to mention Evan Fournier wanted to sign here too, and Kemba 😂😆😂 how you forgot ?

Actualy I believer your wrong on Evan, but i'm glad you saw humor in it, humor is great.

The veteran wing agreed to a four-year contract with the New York Knicks on Monday that could be worth up to $78 million. The Celtics weren't willing to pay Fournier that kind of money, but if the two sides had found common financial ground, the 28-year-old admitted he would have preferred to stay in Boston.

"That was my priority going into the summer," Fournier told The Boston Globe's Gary Washburn about re-signing with the Celtics. "Because I knew the place.

"I talked to (Celtics president of basketball operations) Brad (Stevens) and we couldn't get a deal done, obviously. But I had my options. It wasn’t necessarily Boston only but I was more inclined to sign there because they traded for me and I felt good while I was there."

As far as Kemba? I could be wrong but no other team was giving him a three year contract starting at 9m with a team option in year three? I could be wrong but don't think there were any other teams interested at the time except if he was waived and they got him for vet min, which was what exactly happened after his Knicks time and being traded.

Knicks Film School, just did a Cap or No Cap on trading Fornier.

Alpha1971 wrote:Knicks Film School, just did a Cap or No Cap on trading Fornier.

[youtube]https://youtu.be/4L8Q6xKOoK8[/youtube]

stillafan, no one wants to debate you because you can't get basic facts straight. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just so high on yourself that you refuse to reexamine your opinions when presented with facts that contradict whatever false narrative you told yourself.

After 5000 words, it still seems like you are confusing Rose's second offseason, when Kemba and Fournier we're brought in, with his first. I have been polite so far and rookie Dleethal and ewingsglass have given you polite write ups. The only face saving move you have left is just to admit what everyone already knows- you mixed up Rose's first and second offseasons. You trying to die on this hill isn't making any friends.

Now it appears your excuse for making a simple mistake is "Rose inherited a 4 seed." Rose brought in Obi IQ Burks and Noel while resigning Gibson and Peyton. Those 7 players along with picking up Bullock's option and the Derrick Rose trade we're the Knicks whole rotation once Robinson went down outside of Randle and RJ. When you say "inherited the team"- WTF are you talking about? and hired the coach!

Even basic facts like "signed Kemba to a 3 year contract" you can't get right. That doesn't fly here. You want to post on the UK you got to up your game! Start a new thread saying Rose's second offseason had some mistakes and we'll chat there. Please take the effort to visit basketball reference and other sites before you post because right now it looks like you don't know what you are talking about it and are too arrogant to take the hint when someone points out factual errors.

No one is perfect. My wake up call was when Martin pointed out a .003 error in Alec Burks 3 pt. percentage. Never forgot it and it's made me a better poster and a better fan.

gradyandrew wrote:stillafan, no one wants to debate you because you can't get basic facts straight. I'm not sure if you are trolling or just so high on yourself that you refuse to reexamine your opinions when presented with facts that contradict whatever false narrative you told yourself.

After 5000 words, it still seems like you are confusing Rose's second offseason, when Kemba and Fournier we're brought in, with his first. I have been polite so far and rookie Dleethal and ewingsglass have given you polite write ups. The only face saving move you have left is just to admit what everyone already knows- you mixed up Rose's first and second offseasons. You trying to die on this hill isn't making any friends.

Now it appears your excuse for making a simple mistake is "Rose inherited a 4 seed." Rose brought in Obi IQ Burks and Noel while resigning Gibson and Peyton. Those 7 players along with picking up Bullock's option and the Derrick Rose trade we're the Knicks whole rotation once Robinson went down outside of Randle and RJ. When you say "inherited the team"- WTF are you talking about? and hired the coach!

Even basic facts like "signed Kemba to a 3 year contract" you can't get right. That doesn't fly here. You want to post on the UK you got to up your game! Start a new thread saying Rose's second offseason had some mistakes and we'll chat there. Please take the effort to visit basketball reference and other sites before you post because right now it looks like you don't know what you are talking about it and are too arrogant to take the hint when someone points out factual errors.

I'm done on the topic Grady, there is nothing to admit, i've said my opinion as Martin made me lol, to much redundancy. I gave my replies to you and everyone else. Your mixing up basic facts with what the discussion was so why let it continue.

thanks for being polite, hate to see your bad side, J/K. BTW the Kemba thing well that small trivia, sorry but most had two years with the third a team option, so Kemba had two, I said the third was a team option, sue me lol.

I think your really reaching and looking for something that honestly isn't there, I'm 64 years old I don't troll, I stopped guys trolling on the other site, please don't make that accusation, it's really not warranted.

lets move on, you think we can do that, or do you guys say it then come back at the new guy constantly? Seriously i'm trying to move on, the basis was my grade of the FO is incomplete and it went hay wire.

As the new guy let me apologize to the forum, this was not needed and it went off the deep end. I'd really like to move forward, hopefully you feel we can.

thanks

stillafan wrote:It was a move to counter the first year's complete blunder, 63m in cap how on earth is Kemba, Fourn, Noel, Rose considered positive signings. I think Detroit says thank you because they got both players they wanted in the draft since they had cap space to absorb 3 players.

I'm not really sure how I'm "really reaching" or "mixing up basic facts" to point out the problem in this post.

I agree that it would have been nice to have used EF's salary slot to pursue DeRozan, but them's the breaks. Knicks had one of the top offenses with league average 3 point accuracy based off of top of the league 3 point attempts and offensive rebounding. Maybe those things don't happen with DeRozan on the squad. I'm happy to admit it when I'm wrong.

Above, is what passed as normal conversation at the defunct PSD board on the thread I started earlier, Rookie said I was beating a dead horse so I left and stopped making my case. Yet, this is perfectly what I was talking about. If you engage at all it will continue. If you engage in anyway you will continue the pointless conversation for dozens of pages and nothing of any enjoyment is realized because the poster is deriving pleasure from your responses. Give em crickets or it will become the norm

Alpha1971 wrote:Above, is what passed as normal conversation at the defunct PSD board on the thread I started earlier, Rookie said I was beating a dead horse so I left and stopped making my case. Yet, this is perfectly what I was talking about. If you engage at all it will continue. If you engage in anyway you will continue the pointless conversation for dozens of pages and nothing of any enjoyment is realized because the poster is deriving pleasure from your responses. Give em crickets or it will become the norm

Lol, it’s like talking to AI. ‘To rag on Leon Rose please push 1. To trade Julius Randle please push 2. To take credit for signing Jalen Brunson please press 3.

Alpha1971 wrote:Rookie, you forgot to mention Evan Fournier wanted to sign here too, and Kemba 😂😆😂 how you forgot ?

Who? Never heard of them. I mean we desperately needed a PG and floor spacing…..I sometimes wonder how much influence WWW had on decisions early on. I think WWW and Thibs don’t get along much and if it’s true I totally get it. There’s no way they talked to Thibs about those signings. I mean come on, read the room. I’ll never forget Thibs playing Kemba 40+ minutes and then Kemba was broken. He didn’t make the same mistake with D Rose. Rose was his guy. I always cringed every time Rose hit the floor.

Fast forward to today and you can see Rose easily fixed his mistakes and the roster is improved. I’m glad we didn’t sign Lonzo Ball. The FA class of 2021/22 was pretty meh.

stillafan wrote:As the new guy let me apologize to the forum, this was not needed and it went off the deep end. I'd really like to move forward, hopefully you feel we can.

thanks

It’s called the school of hard knocks. You will learn in time. And for the record, all conversations go into the deep end, during the off season.

blkexec wrote:

stillafan wrote:As the new guy let me apologize to the forum, this was not needed and it went off the deep end. I'd really like to move forward, hopefully you feel we can.

thanks

It’s called the school of hard knocks. You will learn in time. And for the record, all conversations go into the deep end, during the off season.

He certainly did jump in with both feet Still, it's all good. Everyone has their own posting style. UK has had their list of characters over the years and anyone denying that we've had argumentative posters here and threads that were hijacked by the same people and went on for pages is in denial. It all sorts itself out. When I first joined, there was a guy whose handle was TMS. He would argue to the death. I just happened to agree with most of his positions and he did know his shit so I liked him. Nixluva was and endless argumentative fountain of Knicks positivity. Rainman or Reinman or something like that....it's a long list. This place has been here a long time and never gets to crazy big and loud.

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Swapping Fournier for McDermott makes so much sense for both teams and I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.

Rookie wrote:

Alpha1971 wrote:Rookie, you forgot to mention Evan Fournier wanted to sign here too, and Kemba 😂😆😂 how you forgot ?

Who? Never heard of them. I mean we desperately needed a PG and floor spacing…..I sometimes wonder how much influence WWW had on decisions early on. I think WWW and Thibs don’t get along much and if it’s true I totally get it. There’s no way they talked to Thibs about those signings. I mean come on, read the room. I’ll never forget Thibs playing Kemba 40+ minutes and then Kemba was broken. He didn’t make the same mistake with D Rose. Rose was his guy. I always cringed every time Rose hit the floor.

Fast forward to today and you can see Rose easily fixed his mistakes and the roster is improved. I’m glad we didn’t sign Lonzo Ball. The FA class of 2021/22 was pretty meh.

Total guess work but I don't think Thibs had much say in Toppin or Q being drafted. He had more say in year one's free agent signings but the team wasn't giving much more then one years. So Thibs had say but the potential choices were very limited. I think Thibs was likely on board with Evan (I anyone is Thib's boy its Steve Clifford) but totally blind sided by Kemba and Cam. I also think he had a lot of say with Grimes and Deuce and won the war with WWW.

SergioNYK wrote:Swapping Fournier for McDermott makes so much sense for both teams and I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.

Maybe the Spurs like Doug. I am sure he doesn't like Thibs. The Bulls traded up for him and he played 8 mins a game as a rookie. Also while most French guys blow each other not all do

SergioNYK wrote:Swapping Fournier for McDermott makes so much sense for both teams and I'm surprised it hasn't been done yet.

Good for NY as Dougie Fresh was a productive and efficient player for the Spurs last season but I'm not sure outside of the common language with Wembanyama what San Antonio gets out of it. Fournier's only value right now is trade fodder for a team looking to get out of future luxury tax payments or as an expiring contract that Knicks can add draft picks to for a better piece.