Knicks · Knicks against the world!:2023 FIBA World Cup (page 15)

If no Knicks were injured then I am happy. If they played well all the better.

Not happy team usa lost, but.....This was Team Canada's first world cup medal.
They come home with something to be proud of.

Didn’t realize this happened

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Hope JB did not play himself off the team for olympics.
He came in with great accolades for his leadership but his plus minus did not hold up and no gold to justify inclusion.
Josh might get the call for his utility. He can play multiple roles when called upon.
Might be tough to add both if Knicks make finals and they both too tired to play!

Congrats Canada! Good showing from RJ this summer means more to me than JB or Hart. Not concerned with what either Nova guy is going to bring next season.

As Hahn said - all of our Knicks made it out of the tournament healthy. That's a win!

That end of regulation from Mikal though...damn!

lol this is pure gold

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No matter who commits next year they need to add actual centers. Clueless people will probably laugh if he is included but Mitch is the perfect center for Team USA. Dude is top 2 off rebounding big. He is a great Def rebounder. He is a good lob finisher. Can you imagine him with actual good passers for once? He is a good blocker and learned that changing shots is as good as a block if it stops you from fouling out. He is good on defense and won't need touches. If he could ever learn to set a decent pick he would be unstoppable.

Brunson maybe won't be in consideration for the Olympics but so should Haliburton and Reeves and everyone except Bridges

Clean wrote:No matter who commits next year they need to add actual centers. Clueless people will probably laugh if he is included but Mitch is the perfect center for Team USA. Dude is top 2 off rebounding big. He is a great Def rebounder. He is a good lob finisher. Can you imagine him with actual good passers for once? He is a good blocker and learned that changing shots is as good as a block if it stops you from fouling out. He is good on defense and won't need touches. If he could ever learn to set a decent pick he would be unstoppable.

Your not wrong. But.....
He just had a baby so its nice he spend time off this year.
Also, he had a good year as he got to spend last off season healthy and able to train.

As discussed on "Hoop collective" this morning continuity matters. Some of these teams have been together a while. Schroeder been with Team Germany for 10 years.
Team USA tries to get this but its hard to get the top stars to commit.
Team Canada will benefit from its experience this summer. Add Wiggins and Murray and if they can blend in they will be formidable.
Serbia with Jokic?

Tatum, Booker, lebron and Durant added to any team is a talent infusion that should kick ass by itself! Add Anthony Davis and I can't see them losing even if they are not in synch. Tournaments are different type of contests and things happen.

Nalod wrote:

Clean wrote:No matter who commits next year they need to add actual centers. Clueless people will probably laugh if he is included but Mitch is the perfect center for Team USA. Dude is top 2 off rebounding big. He is a great Def rebounder. He is a good lob finisher. Can you imagine him with actual good passers for once? He is a good blocker and learned that changing shots is as good as a block if it stops you from fouling out. He is good on defense and won't need touches. If he could ever learn to set a decent pick he would be unstoppable.

Your not wrong. But.....
He just had a baby so its nice he spend time off this year.
Also, he had a good year as he got to spend last off season healthy and able to train.

As discussed on "Hoop collective" this morning continuity matters. Some of these teams have been together a while. Schroeder been with Team Germany for 10 years.
Team USA tries to get this but its hard to get the top stars to commit.
Team Canada will benefit from its experience this summer. Add Wiggins and Murray and if they can blend in they will be formidable.
Serbia with Jokic?

Tatum, Booker, lebron and Durant added to any team is a talent infusion that should kick ass by itself! Add Anthony Davis and I can't see them losing even if they are not in synch. Tournaments are different type of contests and things happen.

Yes, continuity matters, but also talent and basketball IQ. We've seen it all the time. When you put the right players together, it's like they've been together for years. But when you have a bunch of ISO players, 1 player can shoot the team off it's rhythm. Even if it's the guy carrying the team. We've all played pickup and watch some hog the ball all game. Then mad at you for missing your one shot attempt.

1. I'm not so sure we can guarantee anything. Until there's a new sport called ISO BALL, USA will struggle in international TEAM basketball. Not only that, majority of the top NBA players are all internationally born.
2. Tournaments are different. I agree. The problem is the NBA has turned into ISO ball. So unless we bring our best ISO players, we will struggle every time with our second tier players.

The CURRENT NBA culture promotes speed, points and ISO hero ball. But a ball mover, slasher, help defender, or even a lock down defender like Deuce, will never get the large contracts and recognition in todays game and eventually will phase out. I believe Josh Hart got his bag for his relationships with players and staff.

I heard an ex NBA player say, some players go through the offensive sets at half speed. This justifies their tendencies to play ISO BALL. Basically Jason Williams (White Chocolate) talked about seeing the infusion of street ball in the NBA. Yes it's entertaining, I grew up in the ISO Ball era, and I love the new NBA vs the old dribble, dribble, dribble and pass (black and white tv days). But I believe the NBA is evolving into an ISO BALL heavy culture that hopefully will soon spread internationally, and thats when the tables will turn and USA will dominate again. Until then, don't hold your breath getting any top superstars to play. They don't pay enough and the risk of injury is real, when you have 300 million plus invested in 1 player.

blkexec wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Clean wrote:No matter who commits next year they need to add actual centers. Clueless people will probably laugh if he is included but Mitch is the perfect center for Team USA. Dude is top 2 off rebounding big. He is a great Def rebounder. He is a good lob finisher. Can you imagine him with actual good passers for once? He is a good blocker and learned that changing shots is as good as a block if it stops you from fouling out. He is good on defense and won't need touches. If he could ever learn to set a decent pick he would be unstoppable.

Your not wrong. But.....
He just had a baby so its nice he spend time off this year.
Also, he had a good year as he got to spend last off season healthy and able to train.

As discussed on "Hoop collective" this morning continuity matters. Some of these teams have been together a while. Schroeder been with Team Germany for 10 years.
Team USA tries to get this but its hard to get the top stars to commit.
Team Canada will benefit from its experience this summer. Add Wiggins and Murray and if they can blend in they will be formidable.
Serbia with Jokic?

Tatum, Booker, lebron and Durant added to any team is a talent infusion that should kick ass by itself! Add Anthony Davis and I can't see them losing even if they are not in synch. Tournaments are different type of contests and things happen.

Yes, continuity matters, but also talent and basketball IQ. We've seen it all the time. When you put the right players together, it's like they've been together for years. But when you have a bunch of ISO players, 1 player can shoot the team off it's rhythm. Even if it's the guy carrying the team. We've all played pickup and watch some hog the ball all game. Then mad at you for missing your one shot attempt.

1. I'm not so sure we can guarantee anything. Until there's a new sport called ISO BALL, USA will struggle in international TEAM basketball. Not only that, majority of the top NBA players are all internationally born.
2. Tournaments are different. I agree. The problem is the NBA has turned into ISO ball. So unless we bring our best ISO players, we will struggle every time with our second tier players.

The CURRENT NBA culture promotes speed, points and ISO hero ball. But a ball mover, slasher, help defender, or even a lock down defender like Deuce, will never get the large contracts and recognition in todays game and eventually will phase out. I believe Josh Hart got his bag for his relationships with players and staff.

I heard an ex NBA player say, some players go through the offensive sets at half speed. This justifies their tendencies to play ISO BALL. Basically Jason Williams (White Chocolate) talked about seeing the infusion of street ball in the NBA. Yes it's entertaining, I grew up in the ISO Ball era, and I love the new NBA vs the old dribble, dribble, dribble and pass (black and white tv days). But I believe the NBA is evolving into an ISO BALL heavy culture that hopefully will soon spread internationally, and thats when the tables will turn and USA will dominate again. Until then, don't hold your breath getting any top superstars to play. They don't pay enough and the risk of injury is real, when you have 300 million plus invested in 1 player.

All true. Read Lebron wants in next year.
perhaps Steph Curry as well?
Getting them to all move without the ball would produce blow outs. The "Iso" you mention, and its real, for the star its about "closing in crunch time". Note, team USA can blow teams out but fall behind or a close game you need the hot hand or iso player to do his thing. If not, the team is out of rhythm and thats when it loses.
No absolutes here. GSW plays great with great ball movement born from the Splash Bros. outside shooting prowess. These fundamentally sound teams have unathletic players that can shoot and pass.

If the Knicks had represented the USA in this FIBA World Cup… what happens?

ToddTT wrote:If the Knicks had represented the USA in this FIBA World Cup… what happens?

Knick RJ would have shot 1-9 from 3 while Canada RJ torched him on the other end.

MaTT4281 wrote:

ToddTT wrote:If the Knicks had represented the USA in this FIBA World Cup… what happens?

Knick RJ would have shot 1-9 from 3 while Canada RJ torched him on the other end.

I did not see the game but over heard a sports analyst say Anthony Edwards was hunting down his shots. To me part of the problem is everybody wants to be like mike (on offense). On defense they said Edwards and a few others did not play well on defense. It’s one thing to be an iso player. But even the best iso players (MJ or Kobe for example) are above average defenders.

Todays iso players are terrible defenders. So not only do you shoot your team out, you can’t stop your own man from scoring. This is my pet peeve. Building around Volume shooters who don’t play defense is a recipe for disaster and doesn’t produce wins.

blkexec wrote:I did not see the game but over heard a sports analyst say Anthony Edwards was hunting down his shots. To me part of the problem is everybody wants to be like mike (on offense). On defense they said Edwards and a few others did not play well on defense. It’s one thing to be an iso player. But even the best iso players (MJ or Kobe for example) are above average defenders.

Todays iso players are terrible defenders. So not only do you shoot your team out, you can’t stop your own man from scoring. This is my pet peeve. Building around Volume shooters who don’t play defense is a recipe for disaster and doesn’t produce wins.

Ant is a very very good one on one defensive player. issue becomes playing two way and stars need to shine to win, attract fans, and for the star to get paid.
Jalen Brunson is a deficit on defense. Love the guy, but they went after him. Not saying Haliburton was the answer but his length was preferable and the stats showed he did better.

He is our guy so Im not going to belabor the point. He his a crafty player and our leader.
NBA is an iso league. In a series, our guys win. In a tournament, things happen.

1) Canada had the big backcourt with SGA, RJ, and Brooks. All 3 were in attack mode, so there was no place to hide the 6'2", short-armed Brunson. Even if he were playing legit positional defense, size would still have been a problem.

2) The 2022-2023 Knicks would have been one of the top teams in this tournament - better constructed than team USA. Mitch/Hartenstein over JJJ, no doubt!

3) Lebron, Curry, and KD on the Olympic team? Yeah, sure. All 3 of them are serious injury risks, esp Lebron and his wonky groin issues over the past 2 years, and KD (somehow this guy manages to play without a heart).

technomaster wrote:1) Canada had the big backcourt with SGA, RJ, and Brooks. All 3 were in attack mode, so there was no place to hide the 6'2", short-armed Brunson. Even if he were playing legit positional defense, size would still have been a problem.

2) The 2022-2023 Knicks would have been one of the top teams in this tournament - better constructed than team USA. Mitch/Hartenstein over JJJ, no doubt!

3) Lebron, Curry, and KD on the Olympic team? Yeah, sure. All 3 of them are serious injury risks, esp Lebron and his wonky groin issues over the past 2 years, and KD (somehow this guy manages to play without a heart).

I don't think if add Mitch over JJJ, but I might do it over Ingram

Team USA needs to embrace team basketball at the international stage.
In 2006 the last generation got toasted, in 2008 they needed Kobe and in 2010 they needed the refs.

There is occasionally a huge talent gap, but in the World Cup almost no team goes with their best players.
They reserve that for the Eurobasket, which also may have a few absences, and the Olympics unfortunately isn't the special event that the US media will convince you about because there's so few countries playing and 1/3 of them kinda suck (typically that's China, Angola or Nigeria and another Asian or African country), while Eurppe isn't represented always by their best due to the qualification system in place.

Either way, this is a sport where the USA should be running with Gold before they step on the court. Problem is that the directors are using this as some sort of stepping stone in their career or they want to be on good terms with NBA people.

If I were building a US team, I'd get only 3 star players from the NBA, get 3 glorified role players that are good defensively and can offer a bit more. Talking about key rotation players of contenders here, think Robert Horry, Draymond Green, Bruce Bowen etc. I'd look into Europe to fill up the next 6 spots. Especially centers and point guards. And the final 3 spaces I'd give to dependable rookies who ended their season.

You don't need 10 superstars in basketball. You need a team. And unless you have a trident that's like Michael Jordan and two legends who're about to retire in Bird and Magic, there's no way the rest of the stars will just line up and form a hierarchy.

NYKalltheway wrote:Team USA needs to embrace team basketball at the international stage.
In 2006 the last generation got toasted, in 2008 they needed Kobe and in 2010 they needed the refs.

There is occasionally a huge talent gap, but in the World Cup almost no team goes with their best players.
They reserve that for the Eurobasket, which also may have a few absences, and the Olympics unfortunately isn't the special event that the US media will convince you about because there's so few countries playing and 1/3 of them kinda suck (typically that's China, Angola or Nigeria and another Asian or African country), while Eurppe isn't represented always by their best due to the qualification system in place.

Either way, this is a sport where the USA should be running with Gold before they step on the court. Problem is that the directors are using this as some sort of stepping stone in their career or they want to be on good terms with NBA people.

If I were building a US team, I'd get only 3 star players from the NBA, get 3 glorified role players that are good defensively and can offer a bit more. Talking about key rotation players of contenders here, think Robert Horry, Draymond Green, Bruce Bowen etc. I'd look into Europe to fill up the next 6 spots. Especially centers and point guards. And the final 3 spaces I'd give to dependable rookies who ended their season.

You don't need 10 superstars in basketball. You need a team. And unless you have a trident that's like Michael Jordan and two legends who're about to retire in Bird and Magic, there's no way the rest of the stars will just line up and form a hierarchy.

YOur not wrong. We don’t know who said “No” this year. For stars and closers, you have to consider injury.
Murray did not feel right and he pulled out of Canada’s team. He was tired.
Stars will be cautious.
Perhaps Josh Hart does make the team next year as a ROle player. Same for Draymond?

NYKalltheway wrote:Team USA needs to embrace team basketball at the international stage.
In 2006 the last generation got toasted, in 2008 they needed Kobe and in 2010 they needed the refs.

There is occasionally a huge talent gap, but in the World Cup almost no team goes with their best players.
They reserve that for the Eurobasket, which also may have a few absences, and the Olympics unfortunately isn't the special event that the US media will convince you about because there's so few countries playing and 1/3 of them kinda suck (typically that's China, Angola or Nigeria and another Asian or African country), while Eurppe isn't represented always by their best due to the qualification system in place.

Either way, this is a sport where the USA should be running with Gold before they step on the court. Problem is that the directors are using this as some sort of stepping stone in their career or they want to be on good terms with NBA people.

If I were building a US team, I'd get only 3 star players from the NBA, get 3 glorified role players that are good defensively and can offer a bit more. Talking about key rotation players of contenders here, think Robert Horry, Draymond Green, Bruce Bowen etc. I'd look into Europe to fill up the next 6 spots. Especially centers and point guards. And the final 3 spaces I'd give to dependable rookies who ended their season.

You don't need 10 superstars in basketball. You need a team. And unless you have a trident that's like Michael Jordan and two legends who're about to retire in Bird and Magic, there's no way the rest of the stars will just line up and form a hierarchy.

Regarding the bolded, do you mean that you would find US nationals that are already playing in international ball?