We may have seen a subtle change with Thibs post game comments - basically being asked questions about Julius and without mentioning Julius he seemingly irritated said something to the effect “it’s not difficult- if your open shoot and if you drive and have 3 guys on you pass. Don’t predetermine what you are going to do - let the game dictate shoot/pass/derive.
- Randle predetermines EVERYTHING - even before games let alone in mid-action on court
- Randle will go long stretches where he’s either hunting the pass or the shot but rarely is he just making the right play instantly
- Randle continues (for YEARS) to catch the ball open - hesitate (pump fake) and almost always ends up with a more difficult shot or drive into confusion/congestion
- Randle mostly refuses to pass the ball unless he leaves his feet with no shot available or is surrounded by 2 or 3 players — I think often he’s looking for the assist rather than hockey pass / assist
As a comparison if you watch Brunson for the most part he will manipulate the defense for his shot - often freeing himself cleanly. If you watch Randle virtually every attempt is difficult, contested heavily and he passes good shots to settle for shit shots
Truly one of the more frustrating (dumb / lazy) players I’ve ever witnessed particularly because he works hard on his body and sometimes plays great/efficient but those moments are fools gold —- particularly as pressure rises (he what’s the bed).
Basic point of reference- you pump fake to get an over aggressive defender off balance or to leave their feet BUT you don’t pump fake dead/open air when a defender is 10 feet off you and of course Randle doesn’t have an up & under move in the lane because that would make too much sense.
Another point - again last game there was a tech with Brunson on the floor and maybe others where Julius raced to the line to shoot the free throw. You can see Brunson turn to the line to shoot the T but Randle is there and gives Brunson a soft low 5 like I’m taking this one and I can only imagine what Brunson thinks of him deep down in his pure basketball player mind.
ESOMKnicks wrote:There is a guy on the Pacers who could be just what we need. Very athletic, okay three pointer, could really work as an offensive spark off the bench, especially when we want to pick up the pace and get some easy points in transition. His name is Obi Toppin. I wonder if we can get him for a couple of second-round picks.
For only 2 second round picks? We would never get a deal like this.
MS wrote:This is on Thibs.Julius should be fucking benched for his body language the other night. He’s a disgrace and needs to be moved. Brunson carried the load and for him to have the balls to throw his hands up and then half ass the defense leading to that layup says it all.
Good or bad, he’s not a good fit anymore. Time to build around JB and RJ while we have them IN THEIR PRIME.
Randle is the starter and backup. Isn’t that why we traded Obi? Because Randle soaks up all the PF mins.
Maybe Leon and Thibs knows better than me. It’s early so let’s see. Either way (win or lose) it will be entertaining.
MS wrote:This is on Thibs.Julius should be fucking benched for his body language the other night. He’s a disgrace and needs to be moved. Brunson carried the load and for him to have the balls to throw his hands up and then half ass the defense leading to that layup says it all.
Which NBA teams would jump at a chance to acquire a disgrace?
ESOMKnicks wrote:MS wrote:This is on Thibs.Julius should be fucking benched for his body language the other night. He’s a disgrace and needs to be moved. Brunson carried the load and for him to have the balls to throw his hands up and then half ass the defense leading to that layup says it all.
Which NBA teams would jump at a chance to acquire a disgrace?
Remember, we should trade players when they are doing really well because its a "secret" among fans that we know when to do that and NBA GM's don't!
Nalod wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:MS wrote:This is on Thibs.Julius should be fucking benched for his body language the other night. He’s a disgrace and needs to be moved. Brunson carried the load and for him to have the balls to throw his hands up and then half ass the defense leading to that layup says it all.
Which NBA teams would jump at a chance to acquire a disgrace?
Remember, we should trade players when they are doing really well because its a "secret" among fans that we know when to do that and NBA GM's don't!
Problem with Julius is that you're never getting equal value for him. The league doesn't really value as highly. Even when Julius trade rumors were at the their highest two years ago, teams were only looking at getting Spindarella for a discount. The hope is that we can package him in a deal for a dominant player. I'm sorry if Julius is recovering from his ankle surgery. But short of an unknown brain surgery in the off-season, there aren't many excuses for Randle's recent play.
This is mostly about RJ being out. I dont see Randle's game suddenly coming back. But with less of a load to carry, Jules can be more of a role player, with his bum ankle. And RJ can be StarJ.
The mental mistakes I attribute mostly to knowing he cant tear up and down the court like he used to. Clearly affecting his confidence. Games without RJ make it more apparent.
Randle might welcome a good backup at this point in his career, to help carry the load.
blkexec wrote:ESOMKnicks wrote:There is a guy on the Pacers who could be just what we need. Very athletic, okay three pointer, could really work as an offensive spark off the bench, especially when we want to pick up the pace and get some easy points in transition. His name is Obi Toppin. I wonder if we can get him for a couple of second-round picks.
For only 2 second round picks? We would never get a deal like this.
Might settle for Cam at this point.
Who's getting cut out of the rotation or having their minutes restricted to single digits to make room for another rotation player? I don't understand the fascination with a backup 4. Randle isn't getting his minutes cut anytime soon, we know this.
DLeethal wrote:Who's getting cut out of the rotation or having their minutes restricted to single digits to make room for another rotation player? I don't understand the fascination with a backup 4. Randle isn't getting his minutes cut anytime soon, we know this.
When the team loses a few games many fans tend to go on OCD jags about a variety of topics - the central one with us is Julius Randle. Last year it was to see how crappy a trade we could make with him. Before that it was Free Obi. Now it's let’s get a backup so we can whine that he isn’t playing. Of course there have been other topics as well such as Fire Thibs, why didn’t we draft Jalen Duren, why did we draft Obi, why didn’t we keep Obi, why didn’t we keep Derrick Rose, bring back KP, dump RJ….
And of course according to the U.S. Constitution anyone can discuss these topics anytime!
Nalod wrote:
ANd yeah, All NBA two of last three coming off surgery and the first 6 games and fans freaking the fuck out? Yikes.
Because 2021-2022 happened. We've seen this Randle before. When he's not 100% he's a net negative.
Jericho putting in some work
6 games removed from an all star season and some of the fan rhetoric to the negative is fascinating.
While its not our jobs to find and procure a back up PF, not seeing anyone come up with any viable alternatives or
configure of any that could be available and fill the role.
Jericho videos.....His shot really looks so much better than previous. Perhaps his shoulder has been an issue longer than imagined. Not that we saw that ugly shot in a game, but I hope they can send him to Westchester and let him just shoot has ass off.
Quite frankly he has been a nice suprise. Other than jump, he really has not shown much NBA skill on offense but I admire his tenacity and knicks patience thus far.
Hope it pays off!
Nalod wrote:6 games removed from an all star season and some of the fan rhetoric to the negative is fascinating.
While its not our jobs to find and procure a back up PF, not seeing anyone come up with any viable alternatives or
configure of any that could be available and fill the role.Jericho videos.....His shot really looks so much better than previous. Perhaps his shoulder has been an issue longer than imagined. Not that we saw that ugly shot in a game, but I hope they can send him to Westchester and let him just shoot has ass off.
Quite frankly he has been a nice suprise. Other than jump, he really has not shown much NBA skill on offense but I admire his tenacity and knicks patience thus far.
Hope it pays off!
and on top of that 6 games against some of the top defensive teams in the NBA, coming off ankle surgery where he couldn't train as usual in the offseason, and two of the games being B2B's.
Not a huge Randle fan but he deserves some slack. It's VERY early.
there's alot of all stars struggling early on.
I think Blake Griffin is still available, no? Perhaps he can be sold on the idea of our championship aspirations. At this stage of his career, he's might basically be the equivalent of Kyle O'Quinn in his prime. He can still hurt other teams if left open, he can shoot a bit and can pass the ball really well for a big. But he also can't use athleticism or wiggle to get around his man.
The Knicks might feel they would do better playing Mitch + Hartenstein together (which they won't!), which also means they'd be unlikely to give Griffin or most PFs on the market any minutes either.
In a weird way, I think not having a backup PF helps Thibs. Gives him some flexibility during in game rotations, depending on the matchup.
We can go super tall with two centers or super small with 6’4 Josh Hart.
It’s a guards league and we have some of the best guard defenders in the league. Still lacking long athletic wings, but we make up for it in other ways with speed and high defensive IQ players like:
Deuce
IQ
Hart
DDV
Grimes
RJ
They all play bigger than their size. Plus the speed of the game increases as we see with the second unit. So there’s advantages being small.
Let’s see how far this “no legit backup PF” will take us.
blkexec wrote:In a weird way, I think not having a backup PF helps Thibs. Gives him some flexibility during in game rotations, depending on the matchup. We can go super tall with two centers or super small with 6’4 Josh Hart.
It’s a guards league and we have some of the best guard defenders in the league. Still lacking long athletic wings, but we make up for it in other ways with speed and high defensive IQ players like:
Deuce
IQ
Hart
DDV
Grimes
RJ
They all play bigger than their size. Plus the speed of the game increases as we see with the second unit. So there’s advantages being small.
Let’s see how far this “no legit backup PF” will take us.
I think it will take us as far as we can guard stretch 4's . There are no Kurt Thomases/Charles Barkleys/Carl Malone's anymore in this league ( save for Zion and he is bound to spend the second half of the season on the injured list) So if we can guard the occasional Kevin Loves of the league we don't really need the conventional back up 4 like the aforementioned Kyle O'QUINN or Blake Griffin. Our rebounding is top notch and we don't need to clog the paint with another body out there
ramtour420 wrote:blkexec wrote:In a weird way, I think not having a backup PF helps Thibs. Gives him some flexibility during in game rotations, depending on the matchup. We can go super tall with two centers or super small with 6’4 Josh Hart.
It’s a guards league and we have some of the best guard defenders in the league. Still lacking long athletic wings, but we make up for it in other ways with speed and high defensive IQ players like:
Deuce
IQ
Hart
DDV
Grimes
RJ
They all play bigger than their size. Plus the speed of the game increases as we see with the second unit. So there’s advantages being small.
Let’s see how far this “no legit backup PF” will take us.
I think it will take us as far as we can guard stretch 4's . There are no Kurt Thomases/Charles Barkleys/Carl Malone's anymore in this league ( save for Zion and he is bound to spend the second half of the season on the injured list) So if we can guard the occasional Kevin Loves of the league we don't really need the conventional back up 4 like the aforementioned Kyle O'QUINN or Blake Griffin. Our rebounding is top notch and we don't need to clog the paint with another body out there
It's not so much "PFs" as much as we're short. Josh Hart is small compared to other small ball "4s". It's not so bad with our second unit when they push the pace. But it definitely takes a toll, especially in the playoffs. We need another wing with some size.
