Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
He’s not. He is going to look shoot first. But he can also play off the ball, so I’m not too concerned about it. He’s not the perfect player but he’s damn good.
Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...
VDesai wrote:Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...
People get hung up on titles. Especially us old folks. PGs the way they played when I was back in the day doesn’t exist right now. But when you have a special talent like Brunson, you build around him. Like u said, when he’s next to a playmaker he impacts the team better. Grimes is not a playmaker.
Randle was the guy until JB arrived. Now it’s JBs time. We need to build a solid team around him.
blkexec wrote:VDesai wrote:Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...
People get hung up on titles. Especially us old folks. PGs the way they played when I was back in the day doesn’t exist right now. But when you have a special talent like Brunson, you build around him. Like u said, when he’s next to a playmaker he impacts the team better. Grimes is not a playmaker.
Randle was the guy until JB arrived. Now it’s JBs time. We need to build a solid team around him.
I think JB made an effort to be more of a playmaker in FIBA. But it still may come down to trust. He's been out most stable scorer since day 1. If you're him and the team needs a basket, he's like "I have no idea what Randle is going to do and I'm the best option. I'm probably better off shooting it it." But that can only take us so far. You've got to build trust in the other guys so they're confident later in the season when the games really count. As an aside, I'm really surprised at how jumbled the offense seems from jump. I expect more cohesion.
BigDaddyG wrote:blkexec wrote:VDesai wrote:Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...
People get hung up on titles. Especially us old folks. PGs the way they played when I was back in the day doesn’t exist right now. But when you have a special talent like Brunson, you build around him. Like u said, when he’s next to a playmaker he impacts the team better. Grimes is not a playmaker.
Randle was the guy until JB arrived. Now it’s JBs time. We need to build a solid team around him.
I think JB made an effort to be more of a playmaker in FIBA. But it still may come down to trust. He's been out most stable scorer since day 1. If you're him and the team needs a basket, he's like "I have no idea what Randle is going to do and I'm the best option. I'm probably better off shooting it it." But that can only take us so far. You've got to build trust in the other guys so they're confident later in the season when the games really count. As an aside, I'm really surprised at how jumbled the offense seems from jump. I expect more cohesion.
I agree with you on trust. But I think he’s just wired that way and understands with the knicks they need as much scoring as possible. Even with Dallas, JB impact was his scoring. Now I haven’t looked up any college stats but as a Knick, he’s definitely looking for his shot first which is fine. He will eventually grow in that area over time.
Offense looks jumbled is a good description. I was also expecting more cohesion when you bring back the exact same starting 5 and even the same bench (besides DDV).
But seems like our chemistry will start to pickup steam soon, especially after signature wins and games we should’ve won but we went toe to toe with some of the best. We will probably go on a nice winning streak once the schedule softens up.
Agree and while I think he's played far better than I could have imagined (before we signed him) - I find our offense boring and predictable since we iso so much. A big portion of that style goes to Randle and RJ but Brunson being better at it makes it liveable. Maybe as time goes on since he is now an established iso threat he will start to see the floor differently. Let's hope so as a 6 foot iso player with excellent footwork has some limitations...
Jalen averaged 6 assists last season vs. 4.7 this season. I think a big part of that has just been poor shooting that obviously will bring down the number of assists. Randle has also averaged 5 assists over the past 4 seasons so I think to some extent it's the nature of the Knicks offense to have multiple guys who can attack off the dribble. Knicks are tops in the league in % of 3 point corner attempts and offensive rebounds, so they are doing something right. Once they start shooting better we should see a big improvement in offense.
blkexec wrote:VDesai wrote:Brunson is a scoring guard, but he's generally low turnover/smart with the ball, but he's not a natural playmaker. But few PGs yield Olajuwon comps in the paint. But I think that's why he works well alongside another playmaking guard, so he definitely plays well with IQ and he played well with Luka before...
People get hung up on titles. Especially us old folks. PGs the way they played when I was back in the day doesn’t exist right now. But when you have a special talent like Brunson, you build around him. Like u said, when he’s next to a playmaker he impacts the team better. Grimes is not a playmaker.
Randle was the guy until JB arrived. Now it’s JBs time. We need to build a solid team around him.
agreed.
He's great at what he does, not great at everything, and thats ok.
The other thing you cannot underrate about Brunson is his leadership and personality. He is super stable presence that doesn't get too up or down and he is well-liked by his teammates. He has a good sense of humor and has a humble manner that I think reflects well on the whole group. There was a much better team chemistry last year than we have seen in quite a while. A natural born leader and has been that since his days at Villanova. 2 national champions as a starter and certainly on the 2nd title team he was the unquestioned leader/lynchpin of the team.
martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.
Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.
All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.
They just don't make playmakers like Kidd and Nash anymore. I guess LaMelo and Haliburton are the closest to that type of guard but I think Brunson is your typical modern day playmaker.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.
Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.
All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.
I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.
I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.
It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.
Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.
All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.
I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.
I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.
It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.
Yeah - some just have better vision/instincts for passing but could also simply be difference between pass-first (Nash) vs shoot-first (Brunson) mentality.
Thinking of other lefty PG’s Brunson is more in the N Van Excel and I-Thomas (Boston) mold where he is walking in looking to put 30 on you vs looking to get easy shots for teammates —- I prefer the Nash model but most of NBA is now PG score first.
martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.
Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.
All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.
I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.
I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.
It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.
Nash was an all star in Dallas but my god with 
he was elevated to two time MVP....
D'antoni was no able to carry it past SAS or Lakers but that team was Joe Frazier to Muhammad Ali and was quite good.
That Roster? Shawm Marrion, in prime Amare, Joe Johnson and others were a great marriage to what set out to do an Nash was perfect for the task.
Brunson is a scorer and a high on court presence/leader. Nash was not the fastest, or tall, but he could shoot and his court vision was incredible!
If Brunson can lead this team to a chip, not as the best player but an allstar type guard he'll have his own path to the HOF.......
As two time NCAA div champ, NCAA national player of the year, NBA allstar and perhaps FInals MVP (might not need if if multiple allstar.
But, he has exceeded his draft position and is our guy.
TO comment on the "Natural passer" I would agree but I view him this season as trying to be more playmaker and move the damn ball.
When to, and when not to messes with players. Lets see if he can evolve this part of his game a bit.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.
Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.
All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.
I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.
I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.
It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.
Yeah - some just have better vision/instincts for passing but could also simply be difference between pass-first (Nash) vs shoot-first (Brunson) mentality.
Thinking of other lefty PG’s Brunson is more in the N Van Excel and I-Thomas (Boston) mold where he is walking in looking to put 30 on you vs looking to get easy shots for teammates —- I prefer the Nash model but most of NBA is now PG score first.
Brunson fundamentals are outstanding. That footwork to create space more than makes up for the lack of athletic quickness. He is not as wirery as NVE and not a quick as Isiah Thomas 2.0. Van Excel had a great burst of quickness off a cross over. Brunson blows buy defenders getting them off balance and his pull up jumper is solid from a very strong core strength. NVE was more like SGA but shorter.
The biggest difference between Brunson's game this season and last season, is his first quarter shooting pct.
36.8 vs. 48.6 last season. Thats a big drop.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brunson...
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=bruns...
The problem as I see it, is JB is still shooting like he's hitting close to 50 percent from the field. Its not registering with JB that he should be more of a distributor when his shot isnt falling. Hopefully Brunson will stop trying to shoot his way out of it.
In the meantime fuck FIBA. First Fournier comes back spent after a record setting season for NY. RJ the ironman has knee problems. And Brunson looks like he could have used the summer off.
GustavBahler wrote:The biggest difference between Brunson's game this season and last season, is his first quarter shooting pct. 36.8 vs. 48.6 last season. Thats a big drop.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brunson...
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=bruns...
The problem as I see it, is JB is still shooting like he's hitting close to 50 percent from the field. Its not registering with JB that he should be more of a distributor when his shot isnt falling. Hopefully Brunson will stop trying to shoot his way out of it.
In the meantime fuck FIBA. First Fournier comes back spent after a record setting season for NY. RJ the ironman has knee problems. And Brunson looks like he could have used the summer off.
way too early, we've played 7 of the top teams in the NBA.
Brunson will be fine, last thing he should be doing is trying to change his game based off a 7 game sample size.
nycericanguy wrote:GustavBahler wrote:The biggest difference between Brunson's game this season and last season, is his first quarter shooting pct. 36.8 vs. 48.6 last season. Thats a big drop.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brunson...
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=bruns...
The problem as I see it, is JB is still shooting like he's hitting close to 50 percent from the field. Its not registering with JB that he should be more of a distributor when his shot isnt falling. Hopefully Brunson will stop trying to shoot his way out of it.
In the meantime fuck FIBA. First Fournier comes back spent after a record setting season for NY. RJ the ironman has knee problems. And Brunson looks like he could have used the summer off.
way too early, we've played 7 of the top teams in the NBA.
Brunson will be fine, last thing he should be doing is trying to change his game based off a 7 game sample size.
Your small sample size of posts have said volumes.
Nalod wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:Yeah he is a very good PG, a scoring PG. And he will get his assists. But man, it just doesn't feel smooth to me.
Can’t disagree Martin - for as much as Jalen has the ball in his hands 6 assists is pretty mediocre and the eye test matches that just in terms of vision, creating looks and just pure passing.
Big limits are his small stature (think of small QB), limited length to pass over/around defense and limited athleticism where a guy like Westbrook even at +35 can create angles/space by getting to certain spots. I also think the above factors require Jalen to work very hard to manipulate his defender for his own shot so working very hard to get his own looks.
All that said - my only concerns with Brunson are his D and his body holding up over time. Love him as leader and baller.
I've never watched Brunson before he came to Knicks, so that's my perspective.
I do get that he is short and that'll limit his vision some versus someone who is 6'9" like Magic was but for me Brunson is not much smaller in stature that someone like Nash. It's just a vision thing, he should know where guys are on the court, both defenders and teammates, and it just doesn't seem that way.
It's surprising to me. Last year I thought it was just a getting used to new starting role and teammates thing but I'm more inclined to say it has to do with feel more than anything. Sometimes you got it, sometimes you don't. Brunson feels limited to me.
Yeah - some just have better vision/instincts for passing but could also simply be difference between pass-first (Nash) vs shoot-first (Brunson) mentality.
Thinking of other lefty PG’s Brunson is more in the N Van Excel and I-Thomas (Boston) mold where he is walking in looking to put 30 on you vs looking to get easy shots for teammates —- I prefer the Nash model but most of NBA is now PG score first.
Brunson fundamentals are outstanding. That footwork to create space more than makes up for the lack of athletic quickness. He is not as wirery as NVE and not a quick as Isiah Thomas 2.0. Van Excel had a great burst of quickness off a cross over. Brunson blows buy defenders getting them off balance and his pull up jumper is solid from a very strong core strength. NVE was more like SGA but shorter.
Was just comparing scoring mentality - not physical attributes of the 3.
GustavBahler wrote:The biggest difference between Brunson's game this season and last season, is his first quarter shooting pct. 36.8 vs. 48.6 last season. Thats a big drop.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/brunson...
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=bruns...
The problem as I see it, is JB is still shooting like he's hitting close to 50 percent from the field. Its not registering with JB that he should be more of a distributor when his shot isnt falling. Hopefully Brunson will stop trying to shoot his way out of it.
In the meantime fuck FIBA. First Fournier comes back spent after a record setting season for NY. RJ the ironman has knee problems. And Brunson looks like he could have used the summer off.
Hart also looks a bit banged up. Hopefully the "networking" that was done pays dividends in future FAs.
