Knicks · Is DDV showing that Grimes is expendable? (page 2)
Knixkik wrote:Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.
I'd start Caruso. I like DDV off the bench.
I'd trade IQ or Grimes. Bulls are making noise its gonna be expensive.
If it gets us to the next level, then perhaps its worthwhile.
I'd like to see Grimes get more time to create and see what he can do.
as the 4th option, his catch and shoot as a starter can be devastating to opponents but he has to his 2pt attempts at a better clip.
He is near 40% from 3pt range.
Tell me what coach is asking him to do and are they happy? Knicks ball movement is improved and he is getting better looks this year.
Knicks got that same'ish type of role player already.
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Grimes needs a bit more time to develop. He plays a great role already, but there is more upside there and he tends to start seasons slow. I can see moving him in a big deal, but for now we're in pretty good shape. No one needs to be forcefed more mins- all of these guys play 20-25 gives us a lot of flexibility and injuries always can happen to change someone's mins.
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Should we listen to some guy named DJ? Is that DJMUSIC or djsunyc?
VDesai wrote:I dont get the idea of Caruso when you have DDV - DDV is Caruso and vice versa.Grimes needs a bit more time to develop. He plays a great role already, but there is more upside there and he tends to start seasons slow. I can see moving him in a big deal, but for now we're in pretty good shape. No one needs to be forcefed more mins- all of these guys play 20-25 gives us a lot of flexibility and injuries always can happen to change someone's mins.
Caruso isn’t exactly like DDV. Some similarities sure but Caruso isn’t the offensive player, but is one of the leagues best defensive guards/ wings.
Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.I'd start Caruso. I like DDV off the bench.
I'd trade IQ or Grimes. Bulls are making noise its gonna be expensive.
If it gets us to the next level, then perhaps its worthwhile.
I'd like to see Grimes get more time to create and see what he can do.
as the 4th option, his catch and shoot as a starter can be devastating to opponents but he has to his 2pt attempts at a better clip.
He is near 40% from 3pt range.Tell me what coach is asking him to do and are they happy? Knicks ball movement is improved and he is getting better looks this year.
I don’t see a ton of upside with grimes right now beyond a better version of what he is. Nothing to me indicates he’s going to do more with the ball in his hands as a playmaker. He’s a 3&D guy. He does fit really well on this team no doubt though. He can start for a great team. But there’s always the possibility to upgrade over what he is.
Knixkik wrote:VDesai wrote:I dont get the idea of Caruso when you have DDV - DDV is Caruso and vice versa.Grimes needs a bit more time to develop. He plays a great role already, but there is more upside there and he tends to start seasons slow. I can see moving him in a big deal, but for now we're in pretty good shape. No one needs to be forcefed more mins- all of these guys play 20-25 gives us a lot of flexibility and injuries always can happen to change someone's mins.
Caruso isn’t exactly like DDV. Some similarities sure but Caruso isn’t the offensive player, but is one of the leagues best defensive guards/ wings.
I like Caruso, but with Hart and DDV we have 2 pretty similar players so I'm not seeing the need as much as when before last year's deadline (when we acquired Hart) I was really hot after grabbing Caruso.
Grimes plays quality D with more upside and you get the hustle/dog mentality from the Nova boys, so to me its not really an additive maneuver anymore (though I'd certainly be a Caruso fan if he was here).
martin wrote:Trade the yutes for a near 30yo? not good enough of an upgrade.Knicks got that same'ish type of role player already.
Yes he may not be a good enough upgrade no doubt. Caruso is a better defender than grimes but you’re giving up some of the volume shooting too.
Just about to be 30.
Games played by season: 37, 25, 64, 58, 41, 67.
Shooting from distance last 4 year: 36%, 32%, 40%, 33% on not really high volume.
The Knicks have the same'ish guy in Josh Hart?
VDesai wrote:Every team needs a Hart, DDV, Caruso type - we just happen to have 2 which is awesome, but I'm not sure how additive it us once you have 3.
agreed, we have enough role players. too many actually and not enough min to go around
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.I'd start Caruso. I like DDV off the bench.
I'd trade IQ or Grimes. Bulls are making noise its gonna be expensive.
If it gets us to the next level, then perhaps its worthwhile.
I'd like to see Grimes get more time to create and see what he can do.
as the 4th option, his catch and shoot as a starter can be devastating to opponents but he has to his 2pt attempts at a better clip.
He is near 40% from 3pt range.Tell me what coach is asking him to do and are they happy? Knicks ball movement is improved and he is getting better looks this year.
I don’t see a ton of upside with grimes right now beyond a better version of what he is. Nothing to me indicates he’s going to do more with the ball in his hands as a playmaker. He’s a 3&D guy. He does fit really well on this team no doubt though. He can start for a great team. But there’s always the possibility to upgrade over what he is.
Grimes is really explosive. And with his shooting teams have to close out hard on him, he easily gets by defenders and blows his way to the basket, the problem right now is once he does, he panicks/rushes and doesn't get a good shot or a good pass. but that's common in young players. and if he can slow down I think there's ton of upside.
IQ was an inefficient player in college and for almost 3 years in the NBA, until things clicked and slowed down for him. now you see when he makes moves HE is in control and HE decides what he's going to do.
Vs Grimes who panicks and does the first thing he can to get rid of the ball. We saw it especially in the playoffs where he just flat out missed layups.
That's fixable though for sure and should improve as he reads the defenses better.
nycericanguy wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.I'd start Caruso. I like DDV off the bench.
I'd trade IQ or Grimes. Bulls are making noise its gonna be expensive.
If it gets us to the next level, then perhaps its worthwhile.
I'd like to see Grimes get more time to create and see what he can do.
as the 4th option, his catch and shoot as a starter can be devastating to opponents but he has to his 2pt attempts at a better clip.
He is near 40% from 3pt range.Tell me what coach is asking him to do and are they happy? Knicks ball movement is improved and he is getting better looks this year.
I don’t see a ton of upside with grimes right now beyond a better version of what he is. Nothing to me indicates he’s going to do more with the ball in his hands as a playmaker. He’s a 3&D guy. He does fit really well on this team no doubt though. He can start for a great team. But there’s always the possibility to upgrade over what he is.
Grimes is really explosive. And with his shooting teams have to close out hard on him, he easily gets by defenders and blows his way to the basket, the problem right now is once he does, he panicks/rushes and doesn't get a good shot or a good pass. but that's common in young players. and if he can slow down I think there's ton of upside.
IQ was an inefficient player in college and for almost 3 years in the NBA, until things clicked and slowed down for him. now you see when he makes moves HE is in control and HE decides what he's going to do.
Vs Grimes who panicks and does the first thing he can to get rid of the ball. We saw it especially in the playoffs where he just flat out missed layups.
That's fixable though for sure and should improve as he reads the defenses better.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Grimes still playing too fast. He is close though
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:Knixkik wrote:Honestly if the Knicks really wanted to start DDV then they should consider trading grimes and picks to the bulls for Caruso. Caruso is the ultimate utility player off the bench and would be a perfect complement to IQ. He takes no usage and can shoot, while being an elite defender. Grimes can be an elite defender, but Caruso is one. He’s one of the best in the game and outside of OG is the top 3&D guy in my opinion. I understand the cost and the opinion for those who would prefer keeping the young knick to develop. Totally understandable. I’m just saying if you believe DDV makes the starting lineup even better and complements Brunson and Randle, Caruso is an upgrade to the bench and the defensive culture of this team. A deal would require Grimes, plus a couple of the minimum contract players to make the money work, then it comes down to picks. Chicago needs them and the idea would be to avoid any unprotected ones.I'd start Caruso. I like DDV off the bench.
I'd trade IQ or Grimes. Bulls are making noise its gonna be expensive.
If it gets us to the next level, then perhaps its worthwhile.
I'd like to see Grimes get more time to create and see what he can do.
as the 4th option, his catch and shoot as a starter can be devastating to opponents but he has to his 2pt attempts at a better clip.
He is near 40% from 3pt range.Tell me what coach is asking him to do and are they happy? Knicks ball movement is improved and he is getting better looks this year.
I don’t see a ton of upside with grimes right now beyond a better version of what he is. Nothing to me indicates he’s going to do more with the ball in his hands as a playmaker. He’s a 3&D guy. He does fit really well on this team no doubt though. He can start for a great team. But there’s always the possibility to upgrade over what he is.
Grimes is really explosive. And with his shooting teams have to close out hard on him, he easily gets by defenders and blows his way to the basket, the problem right now is once he does, he panicks/rushes and doesn't get a good shot or a good pass. but that's common in young players. and if he can slow down I think there's ton of upside.
IQ was an inefficient player in college and for almost 3 years in the NBA, until things clicked and slowed down for him. now you see when he makes moves HE is in control and HE decides what he's going to do.
Vs Grimes who panicks and does the first thing he can to get rid of the ball. We saw it especially in the playoffs where he just flat out missed layups.
That's fixable though for sure and should improve as he reads the defenses better.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. Grimes still playing too fast. He is close though
yea he has a decent handle too. Size, explosiveness, shooting... he has a lot of tools to be really good.
here's the thing, IF things can slow down for Grimes, it not only opens up his drives, but defenders will have to respect his drive and won't be able to close out so hard on him so it should in theory get him better looks from 3 as well.
but it's quite possible he just won't learn to read the game and defenses well either or doesn't have the BBIQ to do so.
If you sort for 3-point attempts you will find that exactly 10 players took 9.3 3-point attempts per 36 last year. That means 10 players took one more 3 per 36 minutes that QG is taking this year. This notion that he is passing on a ton of 3s is false. I am sure he misses an opportunity to shoot here and there and I'd like to see him do more than CnS. some of that is on Grimes but he isn't overly gun-shy when he gets a catch. DDV makes some cool flash plays and had a big game against Charlotte but over the course of the season, I don't see him being more than Grimes on either side of the basketball and I definitely don't see him being better just by being a more willing shooter.
EwingPSD wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.htmlIf you sort for 3-point attempts you will find that exactly 10 players took 9.3 3-point attempts per 36 last year. That means 10 players took one more 3 per 36 minutes that QG is taking this year. This notion that he is passing on a ton of 3s is false. I am sure he misses an opportunity to shoot here and there and I'd like to see him do more than CnS. some of that is on Grimes but he isn't overly gun-shy when he gets a catch. DDV makes some cool flash plays and had a big game against Charlotte but over the course of the season, I don't see him being more than Grimes on either side of the basketball and I definitely don't see him being better just by being a more willing shooter.
Grimes is 60th on that list last year.
I dont think Grimes passes alot of 3's, i think he passes alot of drive opportunities at the basket.
but PER 36, and especially so early in the year isn't very useful yet.
I mean you talked up Obi's PER 36 three point attempts as well, it doesn't make him a good shooter.
nycericanguy wrote:EwingPSD wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.htmlIf you sort for 3-point attempts you will find that exactly 10 players took 9.3 3-point attempts per 36 last year. That means 10 players took one more 3 per 36 minutes that QG is taking this year. This notion that he is passing on a ton of 3s is false. I am sure he misses an opportunity to shoot here and there and I'd like to see him do more than CnS. some of that is on Grimes but he isn't overly gun-shy when he gets a catch. DDV makes some cool flash plays and had a big game against Charlotte but over the course of the season, I don't see him being more than Grimes on either side of the basketball and I definitely don't see him being better just by being a more willing shooter.
Grimes is 60th on that list last year.
I dont think Grimes passes alot of 3's, i think he passes alot of drive opportunities at the basket.
but PER 36, and especially so early in the year isn't very useful yet.
I mean you talked up Obi's PER 36 three point attempts as well, it doesn't make him a good shooter.
If he made them at a 40% rate it would have. Right now Grimes is shooting a lot of 3s and making a good %.
EwingPSD wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingPSD wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.htmlIf you sort for 3-point attempts you will find that exactly 10 players took 9.3 3-point attempts per 36 last year. That means 10 players took one more 3 per 36 minutes that QG is taking this year. This notion that he is passing on a ton of 3s is false. I am sure he misses an opportunity to shoot here and there and I'd like to see him do more than CnS. some of that is on Grimes but he isn't overly gun-shy when he gets a catch. DDV makes some cool flash plays and had a big game against Charlotte but over the course of the season, I don't see him being more than Grimes on either side of the basketball and I definitely don't see him being better just by being a more willing shooter.
Grimes is 60th on that list last year.
I dont think Grimes passes alot of 3's, i think he passes alot of drive opportunities at the basket.
but PER 36, and especially so early in the year isn't very useful yet.
I mean you talked up Obi's PER 36 three point attempts as well, it doesn't make him a good shooter.
If he made them at a 40% rate it would have. Right now Grimes is shooting a lot of 3s and making a good %.
He's pretty damn good as a 3 & D guy right now. He was a big reason for our turnaround last season.
nycericanguy wrote:EwingPSD wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingPSD wrote:https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023_per_minute.htmlIf you sort for 3-point attempts you will find that exactly 10 players took 9.3 3-point attempts per 36 last year. That means 10 players took one more 3 per 36 minutes that QG is taking this year. This notion that he is passing on a ton of 3s is false. I am sure he misses an opportunity to shoot here and there and I'd like to see him do more than CnS. some of that is on Grimes but he isn't overly gun-shy when he gets a catch. DDV makes some cool flash plays and had a big game against Charlotte but over the course of the season, I don't see him being more than Grimes on either side of the basketball and I definitely don't see him being better just by being a more willing shooter.
Grimes is 60th on that list last year.
I dont think Grimes passes alot of 3's, i think he passes alot of drive opportunities at the basket.
but PER 36, and especially so early in the year isn't very useful yet.
I mean you talked up Obi's PER 36 three point attempts as well, it doesn't make him a good shooter.
If he made them at a 40% rate it would have. Right now Grimes is shooting a lot of 3s and making a good %.
He's pretty damn good as a 3 & D guy right now. He was a big reason for our turnaround last season.
Yep. I'd like to see him do a little more than just CnS but at least he is pretty good at what he does
martin wrote:Also Caruso:Just about to be 30.
Games played by season: 37, 25, 64, 58, 41, 67.
Shooting from distance last 4 year: 36%, 32%, 40%, 33% on not really high volume.
The Knicks have the same'ish guy in Josh Hart?
You’re right about games played. That is a concern.