gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Randle 1 assist off of a triple double. The Knicks look their best when he’s racking up assists.
Specifically when he is assisting off natural action and not deciding I’m going to get an assist on this play.
I’m one of Randle’s biggest critics but he has been in a great groove with just playing naturally and physically and making the right choices shoot/pass.
When I see Julius play one of his really good games I always wonder what if he could just put it all together mentally — particularly when he plays downhill and doesn’t settle for the 3 he is just a load and even kids like Barnes/OG just melt away from his contact.
Very frustrating player for me.
Glad to see you coming around on Top 20!
Each of Randle's good seasons have had their different quirks. His first all-star season he was a great passer. A hard look at his shot chart showed their were basically 3 spots he dominated from: left elbow jumpers, right baseline, and left wing 3's. Once the Knicks hit the playoffs and Atlanta could take those shots away he became?mortal.
Last season he shot lights out from 3. It was open to pretty high variance because he's not really a great shooter. Luck played a part.
I think you hit it on the head about playing downhill. He's upped his % of shots within 10 feet from 37% last season to 50% this season. You can see him making a more solid effort to get into the point where his vision becomes a lot more dangerous. He's averaging 2.6 points per assist. Harden for example averages 2.3.
I think you need to lower your expectations a little and appreciate what we have. Randle was never meant to be this guy. Lakers and Pelicans both let him leave in free agency. Arguably in his first season here Morris and Portis played better. Those were the guys who contenders wanted. Guys seldom start getting the All Star buzz 7 seasons in. The only other late bloomer I can think of is Kyle Lowry. Randle has gotten to the top of the league through hard work and a coach who saw something others didn't. That should be cause for joy and wonder, not frustration.
Top 20 is your range definitely not mine but love most of what Julius is doing recently.
Like Michael Corleone - every time I think I’m 100% out on Julius he pulls me back in.
He is an elite athlete in terms of size/strength/speed/skill —— if that noggin ever fits properly and he has a few big playoff rounds —- LOOK OUT maybe Top 25 would be within reach.
Good stats on the paint touches and increase in closer shots —- it;s always been about attitude/ decision making with Julius even on bad shooting nights he can be productive if he just stays under control.
gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:Tonight was a rare game where we made enough plays not to set off the pacemaker down the stretch.Aside from their great scoring/shooting tonight —— Hart/Donte were on a string with ball movement and defensive positioning.
Both were super aggressive defensively and on boards and they gave me the feeling that if Brunson/Mitch healthy and Julius making proper plays with Donte/Hart chemistry with Brunson as well —— we could have a legit closing 5 in big playoff games.
I love that Josh opened his mouth - Thibs told him to shut it and play and Hart has played 2 of his best games rather than sink/sulk.
Grimes - come on man - 1) barely looking at basket 2) if someone doesn’t hand him an open shot he doesn’t look within 10 feet of the hoop and 3) when he goes to basket he is completely out of control. He needs to hire Randle’s psyche guy.
We've seen this twice now right? MR complained about not getting enough shots before and now Josh did this week. Thibs rarely has anything negative to say in the media about his guys (ever?). Both times now it seems like those problems were addressed immediately and by the next game the players were happy campers. Says a lot about Thibs reputation for being a hard ass vs. the really of him loving his guys.
Man, I hope this team can win a championship one day!
Same here.
With Mitch on lack of shots it’s probably a situation where coach/vets assure him how valuable he is and he;s appreciated (I think that’s all he really wants). With Josh maybe he just needed the pressure to be aggressive because past 2 games he’s really looked to force action.
IMO - Thibs earns trust/love from his key players because he is undyingly loyal and you are correct Andrew that he won’t typically lay them out in public — it’s why the J-Hart comments were a bit unusual that he commented on his usage / role being the same. Without seeing the stats I felt the same way — don’t see a great change in Harts role — he just wasn’t being aggressive.
LivingLegend wrote:
Top 20 is your range definitely not mine but love most of what Julius is doing recently.Like Michael Corleone - every time I think I’m 100% out on Julius he pulls me back in.
He is an elite athlete in terms of size/strength/speed/skill —— if that noggin ever fits properly and he has a few big playoff rounds —- LOOK OUT maybe Top 25 would be within reach.
Good stats on the paint touches and increase in closer shots —- it;s always been about attitude/ decision making with Julius even on bad shooting nights he can be productive if he just stays under control.
I'm bustin balls here.
Over the past 3 complete seasons his win shares rankings were 21, 160, and 16. This season he's at 106 but if he keeps playing like he has been, he will shoot up the chart.
gradyandrew wrote:LivingLegend wrote:
Top 20 is your range definitely not mine but love most of what Julius is doing recently.Like Michael Corleone - every time I think I’m 100% out on Julius he pulls me back in.
He is an elite athlete in terms of size/strength/speed/skill —— if that noggin ever fits properly and he has a few big playoff rounds —- LOOK OUT maybe Top 25 would be within reach.
Good stats on the paint touches and increase in closer shots —- it;s always been about attitude/ decision making with Julius even on bad shooting nights he can be productive if he just stays under control.
I'm bustin balls here.
Over the past 3 complete seasons his win shares rankings were 21, 160, and 16. This season he's at 106 but if he keeps playing like he has been, he will shoot up the chart.
Some nights he looks Top 20.
martin wrote:
What I love about these shots is no hesitation. Hesitation lets the defense catchup if they are a step behind on rotations. I also notice a lot of those points come off passes from Randle. I always say about Randle he is best as just a finisher but if you are going to be forced into ISO Randle it is best when he is a passer more than anything.
Everytime the Knicks play Toronto OG seems not worth acquiring him. Yet his stats seem to indicate he would be perfect for them team. Did OG look good to anyone here I mean good enough to trade a lot of picks for ?
LivingLegend wrote:ToddTT wrote:
Todd gets game ball.
I'm sure Toronto's cheerleaders are the most polite in the league
EAST W L PCT GB STRK L10 HOME AWAY PPG OPPG DIFF
-------- -- -- ----- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----
1 Boston 15 4 0.789 - W3 8-2 9-0 6-4 116.7 107.4 9.3
2 Orlando 14 5 0.737 1 W9 9-1 9-2 5-3 114.9 108.9 6.0
3 Milwaukee 13 6 0.684 2 L1 8-2 8-1 5-5 120.5 117.9 2.6
4 Philadelphia 12 7 0.632 3 L2 4-6 7-3 5-4 120.1 113.1 7.0 5 New York 12 7 0.632 3 W3 7-3 6-3 6-4 110.9 105.5 5.4
6 Miami 11 8 0.579 4 W1 6-4 5-2 6-6 112.3 110.3 2.0
7 Indiana 9 8 0.529 5 L2 5-5 6-5 3-3 127.9 125.8 2.1
8 Cleveland 10 9 0.526 5 L1 6-4 5-6 5-3 110.8 111.7 -0.9
9 Atlanta 9 9 0.5 5.5 W1 4-6 3-5 6-4 123.3 122.3 1.0
10 Brooklyn 9 9 0.5 5.5 L1 5-5 6-5 3-4 116.0 114.7 1.3
11 Toronto 9 11 0.45 6.5 L1 4-6 6-5 3-6 111.2 112.5 -1.3
12 Charlotte 6 11 0.353 8 W1 4-6 3-6 3-5 113.6 122.1 -8.5
13 Chicago 6 14 0.3 9.5 W1 2-8 5-6 1-8 106.9 112.9 -6.0
14 Washington 3 16 0.158 12 L2 1-9 1-6 2-10 116.8 125.1 -8.3
15 Detroit 2 17 0.105 13 L16 0-10 1-8 1-9 109.6 118.5 -8.9
WEST W L PCT GB STRK L10 HOME AWAY PPG OPPG DIFF
-------- -- -- ----- ---- ---- ---- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----
1 Minnesota 14 4 0.778 - W3 8-2 9-1 5-3 112.3 105.3 7.0
2 Denver 14 6 0.7 1 W4 6-4 9-0 5-6 114.4 109.8 4.6
3 Oklahoma City 12 6 0.667 2 W1 7-3 6-4 6-2 119.4 110.9 8.5
4 Dallas 11 7 0.611 3 L1 5-5 5-3 6-4 118.1 117.6 0.5
5 Sacramento 10 7 0.588 3.5 L1 7-3 5-2 5-5 116.1 116.7 -0.6
6 Phoenix 11 8 0.579 3.5 L2 7-3 4-5 7-3 116.2 113.5 2.7
7 Los Angeles 11 9 0.55 4 L1 6-4 7-2 4-7 112.8 114.3 -1.5
8 New Orleans 11 9 0.55 4 W2 7-3 8-4 3-5 113.8 112.7 1.1
9 Houston 8 8 0.5 5 L2 5-5 8-1 0-7 110.9 107.3 3.6
10 Golden State 9 10 0.474 5.5 W1 3-7 4-6 5-4 114.9 114.5 0.4
11 Los Angeles 8 10 0.444 6 L1 5-5 5-3 3-7 112.9 109.6 3.3
12 Portland 6 12 0.333 8 W2 3-7 2-5 4-7 104.7 111.6 -6.9
13 Utah 6 13 0.316 8.5 L2 4-6 5-4 1-9 111.7 118.7 -7.0
14 Memphis 5 13 0.278 9 W2 4-6 1-8 4-5 105.7 111.7 -6.0
15 San Antonio 3 16 0.158 11.5 L14 0-10 1-9 2-7 111.5 123.9 -12.4
Does clicking on Schedule show we play Toronto 4 games in a row
LivingLegend wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:Randle 1 assist off of a triple double. The Knicks look their best when he’s racking up assists.
Specifically when he is assisting off natural action and not deciding I’m going to get an assist on this play.
I’m one of Randle’s biggest critics but he has been in a great groove with just playing naturally and physically and making the right choices shoot/pass.
When I see Julius play one of his really good games I always wonder what if he could just put it all together mentally — particularly when he plays downhill and doesn’t settle for the 3 he is just a load and even kids like Barnes/OG just melt away from his contact.
Very frustrating player for me.
I feel the same way but seem to have an easier time believing in the guy again after he makes me frustrated. Thing is, the way he played the last two games is really all we need from him and it’s still All NBA caliber play. He could average a triple a double without forcing it on this team. I’d like to see him start getting screen assists at a higher clip as his next move.
yea when Randle makes quick passes he's pretty good at facilitating and gets our shooters good looks. its when he waits and allows defenses to crowd him and than makes prayer passes at last minute is when things go south
Alpha1971 wrote:Everytime the Knicks play Toronto OG seems not worth acquiring him. Yet his stats seem to indicate he would be perfect for them team. Did OG look good to anyone here I mean good enough to trade a lot of picks for ?
The thing about OG is that he is under utilized in Toronto due to their personnel meaning that I see a value play that he could deliver more than his cost. Just looking for a wing defender with more size than Grimes. When Perry says Barrett belongs back at SG, I truly agree. I’d rather grab Mikal Bridges, but man OG is my second choice. His injury concern make me unwilling to give up much more, but you have to assume that it’s two draft picks to get a guy like OG still.
EwingsGlass wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Everytime the Knicks play Toronto OG seems not worth acquiring him. Yet his stats seem to indicate he would be perfect for them team. Did OG look good to anyone here I mean good enough to trade a lot of picks for ?
The thing about OG is that he is under utilized in Toronto due to their personnel meaning that I see a value play that he could deliver more than his cost. Just looking for a wing defender with more size than Grimes. When Perry says Barrett belongs back at SG, I truly agree. I’d rather grab Mikal Bridges, but man OG is my second choice. His injury concern make me unwilling to give up much more, but you have to assume that it’s two draft picks to get a guy like OG still.
This is OG's 7th season under 4 different coaches. Are they all underutilizing him?
If anything i'd argue he's been OVER utilized a bit, he played huge minutes the past two years, more than anyone on our entire team, that has inflated his scoring numbers. If he played the minutes Grimes or IQ plays he'd probably be around 12ppg.
He's played over 400 NBA games, he is what he is at this point. I think if he had another level scoring wise he'd have shown it by now. TOR just lost FVV who was a high usage 20ppg scorer for them, there's plenty of scoring to be picked up, I just don't think he has the tools to do it.
He's a very good 3 & D guy, nothing wrong with that. But that's what he is.
I don't feel he's a big upgrade for us, and you combine that with his constant injury issues and the fact that's a FA that will get paid 25-30m... for those reasons i've never been too high on acquiring him.
EwingsGlass wrote:Alpha1971 wrote:Everytime the Knicks play Toronto OG seems not worth acquiring him. Yet his stats seem to indicate he would be perfect for them team. Did OG look good to anyone here I mean good enough to trade a lot of picks for ?
The thing about OG is that he is under utilized in Toronto due to their personnel meaning that I see a value play that he could deliver more than his cost. Just looking for a wing defender with more size than Grimes. When Perry says Barrett belongs back at SG, I truly agree. I’d rather grab Mikal Bridges, but man OG is my second choice. His injury concern make me unwilling to give up much more, but you have to assume that it’s two draft picks to get a guy like OG still.
Doubt we are getting OG or Bridges. From my recollection from the draft a few seasons ago the guy to get for that size, defensive versatility, and ability to shoot the 3 the guy to get on the come up is Tari Eason. We got to get him from Houston
Alpha1971 wrote:Everytime the Knicks play Toronto OG seems not worth acquiring him. Yet his stats seem to indicate he would be perfect for them team. Did OG look good to anyone here I mean good enough to trade a lot of picks for ?
Not last night but I watched him against Phx where he guarded both Booker & Durant and you could see they didn't love it. Booker was 2-12 and Durant I think 12-30. One game sample but you could see their shot selections were just a tad rushed and more difficult against OG. He also had a solid offensive game that night.
He seems to be a final piece type of guy where you get him if you don't need the offense but you need a very solid wing defender. I will say when I watch him it feels like his 3's are going to go in where with some guys you are anticipating a brick. Very solid form but again a limited offensive player - no dribble game, poor handle, sloppy passer and some limited post up game.
Alpha1971 wrote:Everytime the Knicks play Toronto OG seems not worth acquiring him. Yet his stats seem to indicate he would be perfect for them team. Did OG look good to anyone here I mean good enough to trade a lot of picks for ?
OG hasn't looked all that good this season. Raps should have traded him over the summer b/c ain't no way he's worth multiple first rounders anymore
Clean wrote:
This can also mean we are knocking down our 3's but yes when Jule's is making good decisions with the ball we sure look pretty damn good.
I just wanted to say that Divencinzo's role is what we envisioned for Fournier but Fournier couldn't even hit opem shots.
TheMTL wrote:I just wanted to say that Divencinzo's role is what we envisioned for Fournier but Fournier couldn't even hit opem shots.
Fournier should pay attention...
