Knicks · DeJounte Murray vs MIA in playoffs - 23/7/7 with 2 steals per game and only 2 TO's in 38mpg on 45/38/100 shooting. (page 2)
BigDaddyG wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.
DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.
Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.
I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.
I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.
I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.
Bey is RJ with less athleticism and a slightly better three point shot. I'll pass.
I mean, Bey wouldn’t be the centerpiece of the trade but would be for meaningful size in the second unit at the 3. Unlike Barrett, Bey has a spot on the floor that he is very good from (right hand 3 point (42%) and tenacious D. He clearly limits his other shots to efficient selection. Results in a relatively efficient 14 points a game (530 eFG).
And he is a Nova guy for the rest of the Nova second unit w/ DDV and Hart.
Feel like Bey is a pretty good choice for backup SF.
EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
I have warmed to the idea of Murray too. He is a far more realistic get than waiting on Mitchell, and after watching two games, it is clear this team needs another ball-handler who can run the second unit. Brunson and Murray can start, but then Thibs can stagger their minutes to let Murray run the second unit. The trade you propose looks fair, and we still would have our own draft picks in 2025 going forward to use in future deals or restock our roster. Getting Murray and Bey would complete this roster as they both fill needs.
nycericanguy wrote:We could absolutely use this guy right now. Especially with Randle being a huge question mark in the playoffs.He's a perfect creator/ballhandler and 3rd scorer.
He's a guy that averaged 9apg before Trae, was all defense, led the league in deflections.
And his TS% is really only lower because he doesn't get to the FT line much, but as a shooter he has been fairly efficient. If his 3 ball this year is for real he could be a huge addition.
The negativity towards this guy is laughable —— similar to OG —- this kid would startle us because we haven’t had a legit 2 way guard who can score/dish/defend (with some flare) in years.
No idea if Knicks management have the hits for him or not but if they do I’m sure Thibs is a primary driver and Thibs buying off on the kids defense/fit would be enough for me.
Grimes/Fiurnier/pick get’er done. If we can keep Grimes fine.
Grimes/Fournier/Mitch for Murray.Capela works in checker if we want to go crazy and are tired of all the Mitch injuries.
nycericanguy wrote:NardDogNation wrote:I can't lie, I've really warmed to the idea of getting DeJounte Murray especially now that we have OG. He has enough height (6"5') and wingspan (6"10'), to effectively guard either the 1 or 2 and to help us maintain our defense-first identity.I also think his time with the Spurs (and DeMarr Derozan) is indicative of how well he could fit in next to a high usage player and still excel as a facilitator. My only concern with him is the assets we'd have to forfeit for him in a trade. The fact he's on a manageable deal for the next 3.5 seasons will give the Hawks the impetus to hold our feet to the fire in any deal. And I still think that we ought to maintain as much draft capital as possible for a potential Joel Embiid trade this off-season.
Not to hijack your thread but would you prefer Dejounte Murray or Mikal Bridges at the opposite guard spot next to Brunson?
Mikal easily but Nets won't trade him to us and he'd cost alot more.
DJM didn't make sense with RJ & IQ here, but he makes a good deal of sense now.
I do think slim chance of Mikal being available has increased slightly with Nets bad stretch.
DLeethal wrote:I'm fine with either DJ or Brogdon. Both fit as a 3rd option scorer. DJ would start and also be the backup PG in a staggered lineup I think. Brogdon would come off the bench in a Quickley role. Both would give us a still-dangerous rotation to compete when Brunson is out. Right now we are toast if Brunson sits. Assuming Grimes goes out in the trade, the rotation settles nicely with the additional of either guy.
Brogdon = solid/cheaper
Murray = more dynamic/expensive
I prefer Murray because he’s in his prime, very athletic/ quick and a better facilitator as either a 1st or 2nd option.
SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
It’s not going to take 3 1sts — though it could take Grimes and 2 1sts.
EwingsGlass wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.
DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.
Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.
I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.
I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.
I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.
If Bey is taking Grimes 18mpg that literally leaves ZERO for DJM.
The idea is to swap Grimes for DJM and have DJM take those 18-20mpg, plus the 10 or so that Miles plays right now, and maybe you cut Hart's minutes by 2 or so to get DJM to around 30-32mpg.
But there would be absolutely ZERO minutes for Bey.
IQ only played 24mpg here because of the logjam, DJM isnt going to come here to play 24mpg.
nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.
DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.
Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.
This.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.
DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.
Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.
Gonna be at least 3 would be my guess. Which ones, who knows.
I don’t see it unless it’s 1 unprotected and 2 turd picks and no Grimes — and in that case you’d be right Martin
EwingsGlass wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.
DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.
Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.
I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.
I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.
I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.
Murray would be getting ALL of Grimes minutes and more but if you want to expand for a SF my assumption would be Hawks want to get off Hunters $20m deal. We add Mitch to deal grab Murray/Hunter (OG jr.) and grab another center at the trade deadline.
Would be nice having OG/Hunter along with Hart to defend 2’s, 3s, 4s
that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.
we are going to need cheap young players.
nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.
we are going to need cheap young players.
I'd do this trade.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118?s=20
Click here to view the Tweet
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.
we are going to need cheap young players.
I'd do this trade.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118?s=20
Click here to view the Tweet
ATL isn't going to want FOUR 1sts in this weakish draft.
I think the deal should be
Evan, Grimes, '25 MIL 1st, DET 1st (likely to convey in '27) and two seconds or the WSH 1st.
You can also make the '25 1st the better of ours or MIL to make it more appealing.
LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm fine with either DJ or Brogdon. Both fit as a 3rd option scorer. DJ would start and also be the backup PG in a staggered lineup I think. Brogdon would come off the bench in a Quickley role. Both would give us a still-dangerous rotation to compete when Brunson is out. Right now we are toast if Brunson sits. Assuming Grimes goes out in the trade, the rotation settles nicely with the additional of either guy.Brogdon = solid/cheaper
Murray = more dynamic/expensiveI prefer Murray because he’s in his prime, very athletic/ quick and a better facilitator as either a 1st or 2nd option.
Murray is close to an all-in move. We would still have picks left over but the roster would be pretty much complete at that point.
nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:nycericanguy wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I feel like its gonna take 5 firsts to get Mitchell. I would much rather trade 3 for Dejounte. I think he "plays the right way" and I think he'd fit right in with the rest of the guys on this roster that play similarlyThe Knicks are gonna have to resign OG. They have to push their chips in now IMO....
I’ve been watching Murray clips and checking his shot charts. He’s a really good fit next to Brunson from the sense of the portion of the court they each use. Almost exact mirror images from the left (Brunson) and right (Murray).
Now, I love Grimes and see him developing, but also see him as the kind of player Landry Fields would covet. So, I think including Grimes and Bey makes sense also. I’d include Sims mostly because I don’t think he is going to get much PT at this point and Achiuwa is the better “project”.
Fournier
Grimes
Sims
2024 Knicks
2024 Dallas
2024 Wash (Protected)
2024 Detroit (Protected)
2025 Bucks (Protected)For
Murray
BeyTechnical 5 “1st Rd” picks to let Fields save a little face, but when it comes down to it, it will be 4 2nds and 3 late 1sts.
Brunson/DDV/McBride/Flynn
Murray/Hart
Anunoby/Bey
Randle/Achiuwa
Robinson/HartPretty much spreads the floor as much as you can in a 4-1 offense with Randle and OG in their favored corners, Brunson and Murray at the top left and right and your center working the paint.
With it unlikely to see Mitchell anytime soon, Murray is the next best, if not better option for this team.
I’m all in here and would even consider adding more assets (Rokas, for example) to get this done.
way too much and there aren't any minutes here for Bey.
DJ is a 30+mpg guy by himself.
Grimes + 2 1sts is fair.
I think Bey will find minutes. Basically grabs Grimes minutes but with better positional size. Same concept as the OG trade.
I also think the value of those picks is illusory. I don’t see any of those picks conveying better than 20.
I’d pull that trigger but if they can get it for less, all the better.
If Bey is taking Grimes 18mpg that literally leaves ZERO for DJM.
The idea is to swap Grimes for DJM and have DJM take those 18-20mpg, plus the 10 or so that Miles plays right now, and maybe you cut Hart's minutes by 2 or so to get DJM to around 30-32mpg.
But there would be absolutely ZERO minutes for Bey.
IQ only played 24mpg here because of the logjam, DJM isnt going to come here to play 24mpg.
The minutes allocation is not as drastic as you make it sound. Mostly cause I relegated McBride back to the bench. I think Anunoby is going to be in foul trouble quite a bit. I think That the DDV/Hart combination will end up going over that 18 mins regularly. I think my sheet fundamentally is different from how Thibs runs his rotations, but you could drop Achiuwa out of that rotation as needed and hand out those extra minutes. Its just math and competitive minutes.
Brunson 30 / DDV 20
Murray 30 / Hart 20
Anunoby 30 / Bey 20
Randle 36 / Achiwua 6
Robinson 24 / Hart 24
I am kind of surprised on the pushback on Bey across the board. We might just see that guy differently. I liked him as a prospect, in Detroit and still.
martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.
we are going to need cheap young players.
I'd do this trade.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118?s=20
Click here to view the Tweet
All day. I think it takes more than that though.
DLeethal wrote:LivingLegend wrote:DLeethal wrote:I'm fine with either DJ or Brogdon. Both fit as a 3rd option scorer. DJ would start and also be the backup PG in a staggered lineup I think. Brogdon would come off the bench in a Quickley role. Both would give us a still-dangerous rotation to compete when Brunson is out. Right now we are toast if Brunson sits. Assuming Grimes goes out in the trade, the rotation settles nicely with the additional of either guy.Brogdon = solid/cheaper
Murray = more dynamic/expensiveI prefer Murray because he’s in his prime, very athletic/ quick and a better facilitator as either a 1st or 2nd option.
Murray is close to an all-in move. We would still have picks left over but the roster would be pretty much complete at that point.
For me, I think this could be a complete roster. At the very least you converted Fournier into a solid borderline All-Star two-way player.
nycericanguy wrote:martin wrote:nycericanguy wrote:another good thing about DJM is ATL already has two firsts in this draft, so they'd likely want picks in '25 and '27 since they traded their own those years, where we could offer the MIL 1st and the DET 1st and throw in the 2nd rounder we have this year or another future 2nd. or even the protected WSH pick.that would allow us to maybe actually draft two players this draft. A guy like Da Silva for instance.
we are going to need cheap young players.
I'd do this trade.
Javascript is not enabled or there was problem with the URL: https://www.twitter.com/TheKnicksRecap/status/1743275977088590118?s=20
Click here to view the TweetATL isn't going to want FOUR 1sts in this weakish draft.
I think the deal should be
Evan, Grimes, '25 MIL 1st, DET 1st (likely to convey in '27) and two seconds or the WSH 1st.
You can also make the '25 1st the better of ours or MIL to make it more appealing.
Yeah, that's a good way to get around any Stepien limitations. That Milwaukee pick should be solid as Dame begins hitting the wall. The only obvious competition we have is the Lakers and Heat (maybe the 76ers?). We've got the Heat beat in pick quality, but we don't have anything close to Herro in terms of young talent. If the Atlanta values having a quality rotation player than future picks, than I'd guess you can say Miami is the frontrunner. But if Atlanta is more interested in having a guy with a little upside on a more manageable deal, than Grimes is our guy. Could argue that Grimes is a better fit to Trae too. I will add that I suspect Murray is a good stats, bad team guy and I'd stay away.
Frankly if i were Atlanta i'd be looking to trade Trae. Find some loser franchise willing to pay big for him.
One thing to keep in mind. JB is a bit of a liability on D so having a really good defensive 2 is important. Grimes could have been that guy except for his hangup/unwillingness to shoot.
right now we're seeing how important that dynamic is because Devo is doing it, but could Devo deliver a season's worth of this performance???? Hopefully but who knows. DJM can and has. My only question with him is i know nothing about him as a person, e.g., is he a good lockerroom guy etc. Our chemistry is one of our biggest strengths.
nycericanguy wrote:ATL isn't going to want FOUR 1sts in this weakish draft.I think the deal should be
Evan, Grimes, '25 MIL 1st, DET 1st (likely to convey in '27) and two seconds or the WSH 1st.
You can also make the '25 1st the better of ours or MIL to make it more appealing.
You are right. But they are prob headed for a soft rebuild and would use the draft pics as trade collateral to upgrade Cappella or another trade.