Knicks · Alec Burks coming back, Bojan Bogdanovic too. Fournier, Grimes, Flynn, Archie out (page 13)
GustavBahler wrote:DLeethal wrote:GustavBahler wrote:DLeethal wrote:I don't think RJ had much value, and I think he had more value to TOR than any other team, as they seem to be striving to get a bunch of Canadians in there, most likely to sell tickets during a long rebuild. He wasn't some big asset for us.Enough value not to have to include any 1st round picks in the deal for OG. I agree that RJ had more value to Toronto than any other team, but we could still have gotten a good return for RJ. If we included a first rounder.
If not a starter on another team, then some instant offense off the bench. I dont believe that RJ was mostly a throwaway in that trade, or Ujiri would have asked for more. 20ppg.
RJ and a first rounder probably could have gotten us a solid return yes, most first round picks will get you something solid. RJ alone probably wouldn't get us much at all. He was teetering on negative asset territory IMO.
There were a lot of factors to the OG trade. He switched agents to Leon's son and was a pending FA. Risky for another team to trade for him mid season.
I dont believe for a second that Ujiri would pass up all the other offers for OG, for just IQ, at the end of his rookie deal, if RJ wasnt considered an asset as well. As good as IQ is.
RJ has been one of the most durable players in the league. Availability is no small thing. Neither is 20ppg. It just was a bad fit with two other ball dominant players in the starting lineup. OG and DDV are perfect complimentary players to JB and Randle.
It was about fit more than anything.
Every team is different. On the open market I don't think RJ had much value. I think in a lot of scenarios we would get better return for Fournier's expiring + a pick then we would RJ and a pick. Toronto represented a unique opportunity, they want young players they can lock up on contracts because they are not a destination. They are also clearly prioritizing getting Canadians there, most likely to sell tickets during the rebuild. RJ and Quick made a lot of sense for TOR. I don't think tons of teams would be that interested in paying those guys 40-50M combined.
Also, I think once this season started and OG became a lame duck with his eyes on probably a select few destinations, that the teams willing to trade a lot of stuff for him probably dwindled down a bit.
GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
If Randle has a good playoff run, with some clutch moments, I dont see the FO making a move, and they shouldnt. It should then come down to our bench.
DDV has a history with Giannis, but Im not so sure JB/Giannis would be a good tandem. If Dame and Giannis cant make it work, dont have much faith in Brunson/Giannis doing better.
I would prefer to see the FO find a replacement for Randle, if it looks like he isnt going to be a factor in the playoffs, find another PF.
It would be easier to do that than plug in a Center like Giannis into the rotation. Changes the whole vibe. Im happy running with Mitch/iHart if its doable.
If Randle has a good playoff run they will probably look to keep running it with him as he has a good contract for the next 2 seasons.
If not I can see Rose making a play for AD if LeBron bolts. Randle, Bojan, Mitch and 2 first for AD and Rui. Would make sense for both. Lakers shave a good portion of cap, add draft capital, and add immediate contributors.
DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Clean wrote:Clean wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Clean wrote:nycericanguy wrote:obviously we got better.But ultimately we traded RJ, IQ, Grimes, Obi, the #31 pick and 2 other 2nds and didn't get back a real star.
Hindsight says we should have just gone for DM.
OG has been the big get but the injury concerns with him have already materialized. Bogs is nice but certainly not a long term piece.Gonna be hard to get a true star with a package built around just picks.
Hindsight does not say that at all because Ainge wanted 3 of the 4 players and like 5 1sts plus swaps. We would have had DM and nothing else.
the report was RJ, IQ, and 3 firsts.
I remember thats what we were offering. I remember Ainge wanted more. Let me check to make sure though.
OK, we was both kinda right and wrong. Here is the relavent part of the quote.
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
So nothing exact was nailed down and it depended on which kids was in the trade.
So they wanted 2 of the 4 kids
2 to 3 unprotected picks depends on which kids
1 to 5 protected picks.3 unprotected total, not 3 unprotected plus 3 more.
either way the cost would have been roughly RJ, IQ and 3 1sts give or take. not going to get into minor details.
We traded almost that much now for OG and Bogdon.
Are you seriously trying to equate 3 firsts to Grimes there?
Grimes was valued highly by UTA, DET reportedly preferred him over a 1st from other teams. maybe his value has come down some but Obi, Grimes + the #31 pick + 2 more seconds has to be the equivalent of at least 2 firsts. So yea I think we traded ALMOST that much was what I said.
DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV EDIT Per 36mins is putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Clean wrote:Clean wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Clean wrote:nycericanguy wrote:obviously we got better.But ultimately we traded RJ, IQ, Grimes, Obi, the #31 pick and 2 other 2nds and didn't get back a real star.
Hindsight says we should have just gone for DM.
OG has been the big get but the injury concerns with him have already materialized. Bogs is nice but certainly not a long term piece.Gonna be hard to get a true star with a package built around just picks.
Hindsight does not say that at all because Ainge wanted 3 of the 4 players and like 5 1sts plus swaps. We would have had DM and nothing else.
the report was RJ, IQ, and 3 firsts.
I remember thats what we were offering. I remember Ainge wanted more. Let me check to make sure though.
OK, we was both kinda right and wrong. Here is the relavent part of the quote.
"Utah wanted RJ Barrett, Quentin Grimes and three first-round picks from New York. That would have been two unprotected and perhaps a protected -- up to top-five protected pick. ... But, the Knicks did not want to put Grimes in a deal. They were willing to do Immanuel Quickley, and with with Immanuel Quickley Utah's ask was three unprotected picks. They valued Grimes more than Quickley, and essentially New York said we'll do Quickley and RJ, but we want two unprotected picks and a protected third -- we essentially want what you want for Grimes, we want to put Quickley in that deal. And that was the end."
So nothing exact was nailed down and it depended on which kids was in the trade.
So they wanted 2 of the 4 kids
2 to 3 unprotected picks depends on which kids
1 to 5 protected picks.3 unprotected total, not 3 unprotected plus 3 more.
either way the cost would have been roughly RJ, IQ and 3 1sts give or take. not going to get into minor details.
We traded almost that much now for OG and Bogdon.
Are you seriously trying to equate 3 firsts to Grimes there?
Grimes was valued highly by UTA, DET reportedly preferred him over a 1st from other teams. maybe his value has come down some but Obi, Grimes + the #31 pick + 2 more seconds has to be the equivalent of at least 2 firsts. So yea I think we traded ALMOST that much was what I said.
Reaching hard.
newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
Agree to disagree on Derozan. He is one of the best pure shooters in the game, he just prefers to be a couple feet inside the arc. But no need to go down that rabbit hole. My point is, this team might reach it's apex by getting a super 6th man, someone historically good off the bench like Ginobili or JET, versus making a blockbuster trade and losing it's edge with depth/defense/shooting.
DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
Agree to disagree on Derozan. He is one of the best pure shooters in the game, he just prefers to be a couple feet inside the arc. But no need to go down that rabbit hole. My point is, this team might reach it's apex by getting a super 6th man, someone historically good off the bench like Ginobili or JET, versus making a blockbuster trade and losing it's edge with depth/defense/shooting.
DLeethal wrote:GustavBahler wrote:DLeethal wrote:I don't think RJ had much value, and I think he had more value to TOR than any other team, as they seem to be striving to get a bunch of Canadians in there, most likely to sell tickets during a long rebuild. He wasn't some big asset for us.Enough value not to have to include any 1st round picks in the deal for OG. I agree that RJ had more value to Toronto than any other team, but we could still have gotten a good return for RJ. If we included a first rounder.
If not a starter on another team, then some instant offense off the bench. I dont believe that RJ was mostly a throwaway in that trade, or Ujiri would have asked for more. 20ppg.
RJ and a first rounder probably could have gotten us a solid return yes, most first round picks will get you something solid. RJ alone probably wouldn't get us much at all. He was teetering on negative asset territory IMO.
There were a lot of factors to the OG trade. He switched agents to Leon's son and was a pending FA. Risky for another team to trade for him mid season.
Obviously when your dad is running the team things are "honest" but quite often I presume an agent can talk to prospective trading partner and get an understanding what they want to resign. More often the player does resign with that team.
There is always risk for an UFA as the money might be right, but the team and coach might not be.
If OG wanted NY, thats cool. If the expected money will be there, thats cool. If there is the ability have him opt in with a verbal promise to be taken care of AND that can really be mutually beneficial, that is cool also. Sam and other agents understand what the knicks have in assets, future liability to resign players, and what kind of money is going to be there.
Perhaps DDV wanted a solid contract and take a bit less if it was 4 yrs (it was) than three, and he had a path to start. He did. He had to only beat out Grimes. DDV had the ACL and understands first hand shit happens. 4 years also gives you time to get back if
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newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
Whenever Rokas is brought up as a solution for anything, I laugh.
gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
Whenever Rokas is brought up as a solution for anything, I laugh.
We haven’t heard anything about him all season. Any chance he comes over this summer I wonder ? In theory with IQ gone, there’s some opportunity that has opened up for him. Although Knicks have McBride on a longterm deal, and Burks can easily be resigned this summer. Plus we have 2 draft picks.
or
"Keep Calm and bring over Rokas"
How is he doing? one can look at YouTube video highlights as the fan scouting tool and drool.
One can look at his stat line and be the sourpuss NBA dude that slams him as his stats suck.....
They play 40 min games I believe and euro PG's play like hell, then sub out. They don't shoot a lot either, they are playmakers and passers.
I have no idea how this guy's game will translate. he is 23 this season and little is being written up on him. No buzz about his game and the summer league thing is likely not ever to happen. Few if any dudes that age go. Plus he has played well in FIBA to be evaluated.
One has to assume if it has not happened yet its not going to? He has limited athletic chops but from what I see he can play.
Nalod wrote:"In Case of emergency, break glass and bring out ROKAS!"
or"Keep Calm and bring over Rokas"
How is he doing? one can look at YouTube video highlights as the fan scouting tool and drool.
One can look at his stat line and be the sourpuss NBA dude that slams him as his stats suck.....
They play 40 min games I believe and euro PG's play like hell, then sub out. They don't shoot a lot either, they are playmakers and passers.
I have no idea how this guy's game will translate. he is 23 this season and little is being written up on him. No buzz about his game and the summer league thing is likely not ever to happen. Few if any dudes that age go. Plus he has played well in FIBA to be evaluated.One has to assume if it has not happened yet its not going to? He has limited athletic chops but from what I see he can play.
Yeah this is also how I view it. There’s no real way to evaluate him right now. So little is being written about his play this year too. He’s the lead guard of a lineup consisting of mostly previous nba players, but it’s impossible to know how his game will translate. In theory he’s a nice player to bring over as a pure PG who is somewhat nba ready to back up Brunson, but does he want to come over to a deep, established team that he will have to break through to see a real rotation spot ? Also impossible to say.
gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
Whenever Rokas is brought up as a solution for anything, I laugh.
I don’t laugh but I highly suspect that this is a real possibility.
I do hear rational minded people suggesting this like he’d step right in but I don’t buy it.
Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:"In Case of emergency, break glass and bring out ROKAS!"
or"Keep Calm and bring over Rokas"
How is he doing? one can look at YouTube video highlights as the fan scouting tool and drool.
One can look at his stat line and be the sourpuss NBA dude that slams him as his stats suck.....
They play 40 min games I believe and euro PG's play like hell, then sub out. They don't shoot a lot either, they are playmakers and passers.
I have no idea how this guy's game will translate. he is 23 this season and little is being written up on him. No buzz about his game and the summer league thing is likely not ever to happen. Few if any dudes that age go. Plus he has played well in FIBA to be evaluated.One has to assume if it has not happened yet its not going to? He has limited athletic chops but from what I see he can play.
Yeah this is also how I view it. There’s no real way to evaluate him right now. So little is being written about his play this year too. He’s the lead guard of a lineup consisting of mostly previous nba players, but it’s impossible to know how his game will translate. In theory he’s a nice player to bring over as a pure PG who is somewhat nba ready to back up Brunson, but does he want to come over to a deep, established team that he will have to break through to see a real rotation spot ? Also impossible to say.
I agree hard to judge but the eye test with highlights he looks big & solid for a point but definitely NOT quick or fluid + all left hand (RJ?).
I don’t see Dragic quickness or even Rubio but maybe the kid is legit — maybe he’s highly intelligent on court. Would be great story if he could contribute.
LivingLegend wrote:Knixkik wrote:Nalod wrote:"In Case of emergency, break glass and bring out ROKAS!"
or"Keep Calm and bring over Rokas"
How is he doing? one can look at YouTube video highlights as the fan scouting tool and drool.
One can look at his stat line and be the sourpuss NBA dude that slams him as his stats suck.....
They play 40 min games I believe and euro PG's play like hell, then sub out. They don't shoot a lot either, they are playmakers and passers.
I have no idea how this guy's game will translate. he is 23 this season and little is being written up on him. No buzz about his game and the summer league thing is likely not ever to happen. Few if any dudes that age go. Plus he has played well in FIBA to be evaluated.One has to assume if it has not happened yet its not going to? He has limited athletic chops but from what I see he can play.
Yeah this is also how I view it. There’s no real way to evaluate him right now. So little is being written about his play this year too. He’s the lead guard of a lineup consisting of mostly previous nba players, but it’s impossible to know how his game will translate. In theory he’s a nice player to bring over as a pure PG who is somewhat nba ready to back up Brunson, but does he want to come over to a deep, established team that he will have to break through to see a real rotation spot ? Also impossible to say.
I agree hard to judge but the eye test with highlights he looks big & solid for a point but definitely NOT quick or fluid + all left hand (RJ?).
I don’t see Dragic quickness or even Rubio but maybe the kid is legit — maybe he’s highly intelligent on court. Would be great story if he could contribute.
I think the most likely outcome would be getting a prigioni level backup which wouldn’t be bad.
gradyandrew wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:Man I thought Bojan was a ufa. But he has unguaranteed contract for next season! Bojan has more trade value than Grimes and Fournier combined in the offseason. With 2 first this coming draft.Knicks can package Bojan, Mitch &/or Precious and multiple picks for another piece etc.
OR
Knicks can just retain Bojan and use both draft picks for the pipeline, maintaining a deep roster that operates under the Lux tax while all these other contender go through it financially.What a time to be a Knicks fan!!
This trade is gold for present and future due to future flexibility and immediate contributions. Bojan a 20pt scorer at forward at career 46/40/86% had without using a first. Equals way crazier value than Murray type deal.Yea, Mitch as a chip isn't really talked about enough. Bojan + Mitch + Randle and like 5 firsts could be used in a Giannis package for example. Bojan/Mitch/DDV in a Donovan package. I don't think we lost our ability to make the big trade when you really think about it.
hopefully not.
but its def trickier now.
Mitch, DDV, McBride + picks are the big assets.
But DDV has played so well that it would really hurt to move him, but if it's for DM you obviously gotta do it.
We also have Rokas as a wildcard either as a trade chip or to replace anyone we trade.
Knicks aren't trading DDV. His contributions vs contract are elite under the new salary guidelines. And he is best friends with our franchise player. Bojan would be the replacement for DDV as a ready made contributor. Example Bulls gonna have to attach a draft pick to unload a Lavine. DDV value under new salary structure is close to star level.
Mitch value contract, Bojan a 20pt scorer with unguaranteed contract. Precious looking like a potential high end role player. These are some very solid pieces depending on what's available.
Or we just keep running it down the middle. Knicks are in position of strength!
I think DDV and Randle represent solid replacement players to a good team trading away a star guard or a star forward. Then you add the bucket of picks. Cavs will want a good scoring guard + other pieces and picks. Bucks will want a good replacement forward + picks for Giannis. Timberwolves would want a good replacement forward + picks for KAT.
DDV putting up 20-5-4 on 62% TS and a 161 WS48. While making like $11-13mil. To go along with being our franchise player best friend. The amount of draft picks attached would need to be minimal. And the star would need to be completely worth it.
NBA is shutting down super teams. Value contracts and deeper squads are the future. Knicks are ahead of the curve in that department. To break away from that to go after the star would need to be super calculated.
I agree with you, we have a really good team with really good value players all over. I'm not really gung-ho about trading for Mitchell at all anymore. The fit isn't perfect enough. Giannis is a different story. I think this team could be better off finding a star bench player, to play a Ginobili/JET role. The starting lineup is rock solid. If they could convince DeMarr Derozan to transition to bench player for the stretch run of his career for example, that might be better for a 2-3 year run than emptying the cupboard and our good role players for Mitchell. I'm sure there are other guys that fit that mold as well that could be had for much less than a superstar package and could help us just as much by keeping our squad in tact.
Agree for the most part. As Freak, Brunson, OG would be monstrous. Would probably need to look to include Lopez as it's vital to have that stretch 5 next to Freak. Would need to target Kelly O with mid level. Bring Rokas over maybe for starting SG. McBride is a perfect fit for Freak at G. And target any cheap snipers for the wing. Hypothetically.
Derozan isn't a good fit as Hart is our main bench guy. Neither Hart or Derozan are long range shooters and probably won't mess great together. Especially with both do them probably commanding 40mil or so together.
Whenever Rokas is brought up as a solution for anything, I laugh.
I think u let your mind wonder on you when u thought solution. If a trade is made for a player like freak tho. Odds are gonna need cheap options that u have the rights to like a Rokus to fill out the roster.