Knicks · Eventually the Mitch Rob conversation will occur...... (page 1)
Mitch as a trade chip is an interesting subject discussed many times given Isiah Harts good play this season. His injuries are a concern and he has to play extended minutes healthy. Last season was great but he has a history and has missed lot of games.
https://www.foxsports.com/nba/mitchell-r...
Look at his minutes per game each season:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...
His contract DECLINES.......https://www.spotrac.com/nba/new-york-kni...
17>15>14>12,900,000 his last year. two more after this.
I'd think we try to keep IHart and Mitch becomes back up? His minutes and injury history dictate as might his does his salary.
I know he was all kinds of Allstar talk by fans last season and he was again "breaking out" this season but its time to have that decision and realize his trade value might not be so great. Im not saying he has to go but we saw a glimpse of what could be in January and iHarts passing to me makes him more valuable. I'd hope Isiah has one more rung in his offensive game to climb. Not a big one mind you. We know he has some range hidden and his hands are pretty solid catching the ball in traffic.
the fan in me wants to keep both. Mitch trade value is likely not what most of us would like to think as his minutes, injuries, and foul issues (much improved) all are considered.
Mitch as a backup could work. Draft a big kid for third string? Sims really is ok for a low salary but his age dictates he might be who he is as a player. Im ok with him buried on the bench and used as we are using him.
For this team to improve tough decisions have been made (IQ and RJ traded) and others will also. I like our guys but FO makes the calls and I trust they will get it done in the teams best interests. Nothing is ever guaranteed except hindsight.
Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:I’d be remiss if they made a trade including MitchBeast without seeing how he works in a lineup withBrunson/DDV/OG/Randle/Beast
But, if you are telling me that Robinson is necessary to achieve
Brunson/Spida/OG/Randle/iHart
And you have DDV/jHart/Precious as your bench. Well, I mean, I’d be remiss. But I don’t think you can say no.
Truth is, we have a lot more options than ever.
The Spida thing is no doubt tempting. We'd be remiss if we did not discuss the price to get him.
MitchRob and picks really don't fit where they are and right now. They are doing really well and they need a player that can step in and perhaps advance them?
Then there is the money side of a deal, he makes 34mil next year, then player option for 37 year after. One assumes he opts out/declines that.
But.........we need to send out like 20 mil insalary to make it work. Im not assuming either team has room which I might be "remiss", but thats a deeper dive.For Clev to trade their best player, how do they get one back that might be a better fit with Garland?
Have to admit the Cavs have a good thing going and other than it being in Clev, he should want to stay. I assume he is all NBA and eligible for a full super max?Im looking at it from a Clev perspective but thats how trades are done. we know DM wants to come home. BKN can be a player in a trade and Cavs would be remiss to not include them if they are so inclined to pair with Bridges. Talking 3 team type deal I suppose?
back on the money, how do knicks keep its needs together adding a star who we really don't need? DM will demand big money. So will Jalen and Randle in time.
Okoro is playing very well so they don't need OG. Very good defensive wing whose shooting is improved.
Allan is a very good center, better than any of our guys statistically. Don't think they want Mitch unless as a back up.
For this trade to work, your going to have to send 2-3 first round picks, Randle, and perhaps DDV.
In return we get DM and Mobley.Its rare a team does a big trade and fulfills its potential. That means Mobley gets year two as a knick to get his shit together. meanwhile, Clev is kicking ass with all star and two time all NBA Randle.
"Mobley is soft". Perhaps. question is will he be with Thibs riding his ass and galvanizing his talents to his potential? Why would Clev give up on him? To get better. DDV is an incredible value and might be a good fit off the ball with Garland. Im not sure I agree with all I wrote but its just a "take" on how both teams might see a trade. Clev tilts from Mobley as the next "KG" thinking and moves on.
Did we trade RJ to better fit with Randle, then move Randle half a season later?
100% guess but I think the Send out an additional $20M is the reason Grimes was traded for Bogs.... to give the Knicks the potential opportunity to trade for Spide and have the contracts to do so while not giving up DDV and Hart. IMHO those 2 guys are going nowhere, just not gonna happen. And if you aren't trading those guys in lieu of Brunson and co, maybe we can see why Grimes was moved (and for other reasons too).
I think the Spida thing is legit but would need to involve at least 1 more team.
I agree. We did have Fornier whom we could have held hostage and kept him on the payroll another season for trade purpose.
Clev likely won't want Mitch (for reasons said), Bojan, and picks. If they are rebuilding perhaps. They will want closer to what they gave or have a really good/great player in return.
Lavine could fit the bill but his salary is problematic. How they get that done or in a three way I can't see.
Do you think Randle for Mobley component is worth even talking about? Im trying to look at it from Clev standpoint to win now vs. keep building. Perhaps something in between?
If DM says "guys, Im not opting in and will leave" they can trade him anywhere. He can give a list I suppose.
If IM looking at the knicks and saw January as the template does it make sense to go after DM?
In the age of parity and a hard apron is he a capstone type player or need we be looking in other places?
Where are we weak? The youth pipeline is a bit less and we need controlling foot contracts. We have picks for that.
I think Ihart over Mitch might make us solid. Mitch can stay.
Resign Precious or go in another direction.
Then there is the starphuck:
Giannis
Embiid
KAT
DM
The above for various reasons could shake free. For that matter, so can Luka if they fail at playoff time.
Nalod wrote:Martin,
I agree. We did have Fornier whom we could have held hostage and kept him on the payroll another season for trade purpose.
Clev likely won't want Mitch (for reasons said), Bojan, and picks. If they are rebuilding perhaps. They will want closer to what they gave or have a really good/great player in return.Lavine could fit the bill but his salary is problematic. How they get that done or in a three way I can't see.
Do you think Randle for Mobley component is worth even talking about? Im trying to look at it from Clev standpoint to win now vs. keep building. Perhaps something in between?If DM says "guys, Im not opting in and will leave" they can trade him anywhere. He can give a list I suppose.
If IM looking at the knicks and saw January as the template does it make sense to go after DM?
In the age of parity and a hard apron is he a capstone type player or need we be looking in other places?Where are we weak? The youth pipeline is a bit less and we need controlling foot contracts. We have picks for that.
I think Ihart over Mitch might make us solid. Mitch can stay.Resign Precious or go in another direction.
Then there is the starphuck:
Giannis
Embiid
KAT
DMThe above for various reasons could shake free. For that matter, so can Luka if they fail at playoff time.
I don't get that reasoning. How can they trade him anywhere if he keeps telling teams that he won't resign? It's the same situation as KP with Washington or Siakam with Toronto. Those guys predetermined where they wanted to go - give or take - and then the team was forced to make that deal.
It's the same spot Cleveland now find itself in.
Donovan owns the Juice Card. He just needs to use it to his advantage. And that guy been playing footsies with New York longer than the Brunson family.
In a nutshell, Toronto got 3 shitty firsts (Indy this year, crappier pick of LAC/OKC for this year, and Indy top 4 protected in 2026) and contract filler. Utah got Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji and 3 firsts and 2 swaps, all unprotected.
Cleveland have now put themselves 1 step closer to Siakam territory and a step further away from the leverage Utah had in trading away Donovan. The price is dropping.
When the trading team (Utah) has leverage, they move Donovan for:
https://www.nba.com/news/donovan-mitchel...
Cavaliers receive:
Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pick
Cleveland sent guard Collin Sexton, forward Lauri Markkanen and rookie guard Ochai Agbaji to Utah along with unprotected first-round draft picks in 2025, 2027 and 2029. The teams will also swap their first-round drafting rights in 2026 and 2028.
When Toronto traded Siakam, they got:
https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-pacers-...
Raptors receive:
Bruce Brown (via Pacers)
Kira Lewis (via Pelicans)
Jordan Nwora (via Pacers)
Two 2024 first-round picks (via Pacers)
Conditional 2026 first-round pick (via Pacers)
Pacers receive:
Pascal Siakam (via Raptors)
Future second-round pick (via Pelicans)
Per Wojnarowski, the 2024 picks Toronto receives includes Indiana’s own as well as the worst of Utah’s, Houston’s, Oklahoma City’s and the LA Clippers’. The 2026 pick sent to the Raptors will be the Pacers’ pick but is protected from Nos. 1-4, per Shams Charania of The Athletic.
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Martin,
I agree. We did have Fornier whom we could have held hostage and kept him on the payroll another season for trade purpose.
Clev likely won't want Mitch (for reasons said), Bojan, and picks. If they are rebuilding perhaps. They will want closer to what they gave or have a really good/great player in return.Lavine could fit the bill but his salary is problematic. How they get that done or in a three way I can't see.
Do you think Randle for Mobley component is worth even talking about? Im trying to look at it from Clev standpoint to win now vs. keep building. Perhaps something in between?If DM says "guys, Im not opting in and will leave" they can trade him anywhere. He can give a list I suppose.
If IM looking at the knicks and saw January as the template does it make sense to go after DM?
In the age of parity and a hard apron is he a capstone type player or need we be looking in other places?Where are we weak? The youth pipeline is a bit less and we need controlling foot contracts. We have picks for that.
I think Ihart over Mitch might make us solid. Mitch can stay.Resign Precious or go in another direction.
Then there is the starphuck:
Giannis
Embiid
KAT
DMThe above for various reasons could shake free. For that matter, so can Luka if they fail at playoff time.
I don't get that reasoning. How can they trade him anywhere if he keeps telling teams that he won't resign? It's the same situation as KP with Washington or Siakam with Toronto. Those guys predetermined where they wanted to go - give or take - and then the team was forced to make that deal.
It's the same spot Cleveland now find itself in.
Donovan owns the Juice Card. He just needs to use it to his advantage. And that guy been playing footsies with New York longer than the Brunson family.
Your not wrong.
Are there scenarios where its NY or bust that we know of outside of popular conjecture? if Miami called and said they will meet his price, and no NY team is willing or able to?
That's where I said "have a list". Lakers or clippers might be OK? SoCal does not suck.
Its more likley BKN does something to make it happen than knicks. DM is a luxury we can afford, but would assets be used in a better manner?
If Bucks are out in first round I can see them retooling and we can help them with Giannis.
financially would Minny be better with Randle? Not saying thats where I want to spend the money but that' is something. KAT is mature and healthy this season and really playing well. He has had soft issues and health.
Playoffs will tell a big story to any of these guys legacy.
In the end given salary aprons and I don't see we keep all our core together and bring in a big juicy star. Money has to go out and those teams will be asking for a lot.
Leon has succeeded in doing things without the starphuch. His method of valuation with his cohorts is interesting. Curious how he moves forward.
martin wrote:Donovan and Siakam are nowhere near the same player but they both second tier all stars?In a nutshell, Toronto got 3 shitty firsts (Indy this year, crappier pick of LAC/OKC for this year, and Indy top 4 protected in 2026) and contract filler. Utah got Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji and 3 firsts and 2 swaps, all unprotected.
Cleveland have now put themselves 1 step closer to Siakam territory and a step further away from the leverage Utah had in trading away Donovan. The price is dropping.
When the trading team (Utah) has leverage, they move Donovan for:https://www.nba.com/news/donovan-mitchel...
Cavaliers receive:
Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pickCleveland sent guard Collin Sexton, forward Lauri Markkanen and rookie guard Ochai Agbaji to Utah along with unprotected first-round draft picks in 2025, 2027 and 2029. The teams will also swap their first-round drafting rights in 2026 and 2028.
When Toronto traded Siakam, they got:
https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-pacers-...
Raptors receive:
Bruce Brown (via Pacers)
Kira Lewis (via Pelicans)
Jordan Nwora (via Pacers)
Two 2024 first-round picks (via Pacers)
Conditional 2026 first-round pick (via Pacers)Pacers receive:
Pascal Siakam (via Raptors)
Future second-round pick (via Pelicans)Per Wojnarowski, the 2024 picks Toronto receives includes Indiana’s own as well as the worst of Utah’s, Houston’s, Oklahoma City’s and the LA Clippers’. The 2026 pick sent to the Raptors will be the Pacers’ pick but is protected from Nos. 1-4, per Shams Charania of The Athletic.
I have Mitchell over Siakam in an open market but a relatively large margin. I thought the Siakam trade actually made Indiana worse. I don't think he is the right player for that team.
As for Mitchell, he lacks positional size at SG, but otherwise gets high ratings in near all categories. His enormous wingspan makes up for positional size, but I could see a situation where he would prefer to lineup at PG. Prior to Brunson, I desperately wanted Spida as PG because his PG stats on offense and defense used to be much better in Utah, I don't think that has been relevant since the Cleveland trade. I see Brooklyn as the better fit for him though I think Cleveland would have to take back Simmons.
If it became a possibility, I think you grab Spida and sort it out after. It does seem like the kind of move now that could put us over the top.
EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Donovan and Siakam are nowhere near the same player but they both second tier all stars?In a nutshell, Toronto got 3 shitty firsts (Indy this year, crappier pick of LAC/OKC for this year, and Indy top 4 protected in 2026) and contract filler. Utah got Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji and 3 firsts and 2 swaps, all unprotected.
Cleveland have now put themselves 1 step closer to Siakam territory and a step further away from the leverage Utah had in trading away Donovan. The price is dropping.
When the trading team (Utah) has leverage, they move Donovan for:https://www.nba.com/news/donovan-mitchel...
Cavaliers receive:
Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pickCleveland sent guard Collin Sexton, forward Lauri Markkanen and rookie guard Ochai Agbaji to Utah along with unprotected first-round draft picks in 2025, 2027 and 2029. The teams will also swap their first-round drafting rights in 2026 and 2028.
When Toronto traded Siakam, they got:
https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-pacers-...
Raptors receive:
Bruce Brown (via Pacers)
Kira Lewis (via Pelicans)
Jordan Nwora (via Pacers)
Two 2024 first-round picks (via Pacers)
Conditional 2026 first-round pick (via Pacers)Pacers receive:
Pascal Siakam (via Raptors)
Future second-round pick (via Pelicans)Per Wojnarowski, the 2024 picks Toronto receives includes Indiana’s own as well as the worst of Utah’s, Houston’s, Oklahoma City’s and the LA Clippers’. The 2026 pick sent to the Raptors will be the Pacers’ pick but is protected from Nos. 1-4, per Shams Charania of The Athletic.
I have Mitchell over Siakam in an open market but a relatively large margin. I thought the Siakam trade actually made Indiana worse. I don't think he is the right player for that team.
As for Mitchell, he lacks positional size at SG, but otherwise gets high ratings in near all categories. His enormous wingspan makes up for positional size, but I could see a situation where he would prefer to lineup at PG. Prior to Brunson, I desperately wanted Spida as PG because his PG stats on offense and defense used to be much better in Utah, I don't think that has been relevant since the Cleveland trade. I see Brooklyn as the better fit for him though I think Cleveland would have to take back Simmons.
If it became a possibility, I think you grab Spida and sort it out after. It does seem like the kind of move now that could put us over the top.
Puts us over the top all things the same.
But that can't happen.
Put yourself in Clev's shoes. They are right there just behind Boston. They were we were before the plague hit us.
If your them, how do you replenish the talent it took to get DM or replace his production and perhaps make the team better??
Nalod wrote:EwingsGlass wrote:martin wrote:Donovan and Siakam are nowhere near the same player but they both second tier all stars?In a nutshell, Toronto got 3 shitty firsts (Indy this year, crappier pick of LAC/OKC for this year, and Indy top 4 protected in 2026) and contract filler. Utah got Sexton, Markkanen, Agbaji and 3 firsts and 2 swaps, all unprotected.
Cleveland have now put themselves 1 step closer to Siakam territory and a step further away from the leverage Utah had in trading away Donovan. The price is dropping.
When the trading team (Utah) has leverage, they move Donovan for:https://www.nba.com/news/donovan-mitchel...
Cavaliers receive:
Donovan Mitchell
Jazz receive:
Collin Sexton
Lauri Markkanen
Ochai Agbaji
2025 first-round pick
2026 pick swap
2027 first-round pick
2028 pick swap
2029 first-round pickCleveland sent guard Collin Sexton, forward Lauri Markkanen and rookie guard Ochai Agbaji to Utah along with unprotected first-round draft picks in 2025, 2027 and 2029. The teams will also swap their first-round drafting rights in 2026 and 2028.
When Toronto traded Siakam, they got:
https://www.nba.com/news/raptors-pacers-...
Raptors receive:
Bruce Brown (via Pacers)
Kira Lewis (via Pelicans)
Jordan Nwora (via Pacers)
Two 2024 first-round picks (via Pacers)
Conditional 2026 first-round pick (via Pacers)Pacers receive:
Pascal Siakam (via Raptors)
Future second-round pick (via Pelicans)Per Wojnarowski, the 2024 picks Toronto receives includes Indiana’s own as well as the worst of Utah’s, Houston’s, Oklahoma City’s and the LA Clippers’. The 2026 pick sent to the Raptors will be the Pacers’ pick but is protected from Nos. 1-4, per Shams Charania of The Athletic.
I have Mitchell over Siakam in an open market but a relatively large margin. I thought the Siakam trade actually made Indiana worse. I don't think he is the right player for that team.
As for Mitchell, he lacks positional size at SG, but otherwise gets high ratings in near all categories. His enormous wingspan makes up for positional size, but I could see a situation where he would prefer to lineup at PG. Prior to Brunson, I desperately wanted Spida as PG because his PG stats on offense and defense used to be much better in Utah, I don't think that has been relevant since the Cleveland trade. I see Brooklyn as the better fit for him though I think Cleveland would have to take back Simmons.
If it became a possibility, I think you grab Spida and sort it out after. It does seem like the kind of move now that could put us over the top.
Puts us over the top all things the same.
But that can't happen.
Put yourself in Clev's shoes. They are right there just behind Boston. They were we were before the plague hit us.
If your them, how do you replenish the talent it took to get DM or replace his production and perhaps make the team better??
Spida would need to put Cleveland in a position of losing him for nothing. We could bluff that we would clear enough cap space to sign him outright and could do that if OG opted out, but my number one offseason plan is keeping OG.
There really isn't a bad contract left on our roster at this point. So, capology is at its all time high. We want to preserve being over the cap while being able to threaten to go under the cap.
30mm Randle
25.5 Brunson
20mm Anunoby (player option)
19mm Bogs (only 2mm guaranteed)
18mm Hart
14.5mm Robinson
11.5mm DDV
4.7mm MM
2mm Sims (not guaranteed)
= 145mm. Cap expected to be 141mm.
Without disrespect to any current player, if the office wanted to clear space to sign Mitchell outright, I don't think there is any contract here that can't be moved if needed. Some may be deemed "untouchable", but if you wanted to trade Bogs for a trade exception, I bet you could. I think Mitchell Robinson could get picks. McBride would likely get a pick. They could clear as much as needed without too much trouble and without giving up OG. So, if I am Cleveland watching this, I mean, shouldn't they come to the table and say - Give me Bogs, Mitch and McBride with some picks? And then we negotiate. The Knicks could turn around and make separate trades for each of these players, gather additional picks, have OG opt in and sign Donovan Mitchell at a contract starting at 34-36mm. You have no center, but these are little problems. It is better if the Knicks work with Cleveland, but they have the flexibility to make more aggressive moves. And with that flexibility comes leverage.
That’s all Donovan needs to do.