Knicks · Brunson is 1A? Yes, Brunson is a 1A. (page 12)
NYKBocker wrote:Brunson is not 1A. He is One.
He is The One.
He's not gifted with a 7'4" frame. He's not a freak athlete like LeBron. He's a good shooter, but not an all timer like Curry or Ray Allen.
He's earned his stardom with discipline, excellent fundamentals and footwork, and an inhuman knack to handle pressure. That includes his clutch play in pivotal moments, leading the team with composure, and navigating the NY market that has broken other players in that uniform.
My Captain!
DLeethal wrote:Jason Timpf said he's firmly at #6 in today's league behind SGA, Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Wemby. Bill Simmons said he's top 50 all time and put him ahead of guys like Kidd, Nash, Payton which is wild. Real hoop historians are starting to recognize. He will finish his career a top 25 all time player.
I discussed Reed and Clyde in other thread. I just listned to his take and it was very interesting as Big men roamed the earth back in the day. Clyde clutch GAME 7 inflicted 6 steals on Lakers and the Logo, dropped 36 and 19 Assists! This in mentioning about "all time knick greats". That he was for a good port of his career the best defensive guard mattered!
Not a slight on Brunson who still has 5 good years likley left in his career. We'll see where it goes, but today he is celebrated! I could care less if he is no. 1, 2 or 3!!!!! That number gets retired, and he is enshrined in the HOF! He punched a lot of tickets in the last month!
Nalod wrote:DLeethal wrote:Jason Timpf said he's firmly at #6 in today's league behind SGA, Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Wemby. Bill Simmons said he's top 50 all time and put him ahead of guys like Kidd, Nash, Payton which is wild. Real hoop historians are starting to recognize. He will finish his career a top 25 all time player.I discussed Reed and Clyde in other thread. I just listned to his take and it was very interesting as Big men roamed the earth back in the day. Clyde clutch GAME 7 inflicted 6 steals on Lakers and the Logo, dropped 36 and 19 Assists! This in mentioning about "all time knick greats". That he was for a good port of his career the best defensive guard mattered!
Not a slight on Brunson who still has 5 good years likley left in his career. We'll see where it goes, but today he is celebrated! I could care less if he is no. 1, 2 or 3!!!!! That number gets retired, and he is enshrined in the HOF! He punched a lot of tickets in the last month!
I just listened to more of Bill ... sounds like he has Brunson ranked #4 now ahead of Giannis and Luka and behind SGA, Wemby, and Jokic.
Say what you want about Bill, he's definitely Boston-tilted on everything - but he's done more research and put more thought into ranking players historically than anyone else on the planet. When it comes to "rankings" and placing events in historical context, nobody does it better than him. Highly recommend his recent podcasts where he contextualizes this Knicks run and Brunson's place in history. Pretty great stuff.
Jason Timpf is always an awesome listen, quickly became my go-to hoops podcast during this playoff run. Would recommend his stuff as well.
DLeethal wrote:Nalod wrote:DLeethal wrote:Jason Timpf said he's firmly at #6 in today's league behind SGA, Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Wemby. Bill Simmons said he's top 50 all time and put him ahead of guys like Kidd, Nash, Payton which is wild. Real hoop historians are starting to recognize. He will finish his career a top 25 all time player.I discussed Reed and Clyde in other thread. I just listned to his take and it was very interesting as Big men roamed the earth back in the day. Clyde clutch GAME 7 inflicted 6 steals on Lakers and the Logo, dropped 36 and 19 Assists! This in mentioning about "all time knick greats". That he was for a good port of his career the best defensive guard mattered!
Not a slight on Brunson who still has 5 good years likley left in his career. We'll see where it goes, but today he is celebrated! I could care less if he is no. 1, 2 or 3!!!!! That number gets retired, and he is enshrined in the HOF! He punched a lot of tickets in the last month!I just listened to more of Bill ... sounds like he has Brunson ranked #4 now ahead of Giannis and Luka and behind SGA, Wemby, and Jokic.
Say what you want about Bill, he's definitely Boston-tilted on everything - but he's done more research and put more thought into ranking players historically than anyone else on the planet. When it comes to "rankings" and placing events in historical context, nobody does it better than him. Highly recommend his recent podcasts where he contextualizes this Knicks run and Brunson's place in history. Pretty great stuff.
Jason Timpf is always an awesome listen, quickly became my go-to hoops podcast during this playoff run. Would recommend his stuff as well.
https://nbarankings.theringer.com/ Tremendous respect to Brunson, KAT and OG. Bridges, Hart and Robinson all in the top 100 also.
DLeethal wrote:Nalod wrote:DLeethal wrote:Jason Timpf said he's firmly at #6 in today's league behind SGA, Luka, Giannis, Jokic, Wemby. Bill Simmons said he's top 50 all time and put him ahead of guys like Kidd, Nash, Payton which is wild. Real hoop historians are starting to recognize. He will finish his career a top 25 all time player.I discussed Reed and Clyde in other thread. I just listned to his take and it was very interesting as Big men roamed the earth back in the day. Clyde clutch GAME 7 inflicted 6 steals on Lakers and the Logo, dropped 36 and 19 Assists! This in mentioning about "all time knick greats". That he was for a good port of his career the best defensive guard mattered!
Not a slight on Brunson who still has 5 good years likley left in his career. We'll see where it goes, but today he is celebrated! I could care less if he is no. 1, 2 or 3!!!!! That number gets retired, and he is enshrined in the HOF! He punched a lot of tickets in the last month!I just listened to more of Bill ... sounds like he has Brunson ranked #4 now ahead of Giannis and Luka and behind SGA, Wemby, and Jokic.
Say what you want about Bill, he's definitely Boston-tilted on everything - but he's done more research and put more thought into ranking players historically than anyone else on the planet. When it comes to "rankings" and placing events in historical context, nobody does it better than him. Highly recommend his recent podcasts where he contextualizes this Knicks run and Brunson's place in history. Pretty great stuff.
Jason Timpf is always an awesome listen, quickly became my go-to hoops podcast during this playoff run. Would recommend his stuff as well.
Well said.
Objectively the "Hate" of the past was often deserved by Knick and its FO. Likewise the love or as you say "contextulazation" is a pleasure to behold. There is little to dislike on this knick team. I don't live in NY and live amung many not knicks fans or not NBA fans but many have been capitvated by the Brunson story, the father son thing, and remember him from 'NOva with fondness. The Mike brown Story, the Kat Story, all very getting play here. People love to hate NY teams. They don't find much to dislike here.
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newyorknewyork wrote:Brunson already back in the gym playing pick up games vs Kyrie. That's a wild man. Go on vacation and get your rest cap.
Jerry Rice the day after the Super Bowl was doing calisthenics on the field by himself. That’s how we win.
SergioNYK wrote:Brunson is the best scoring small guard in NBA history!
He's catching up to Nate "Tiny" Archibald whom I previously considered to be the best scoring little man in NBA history. His assist ratio was better than Brunson's.
They both have one title under their belt whereas Iverson does not.
If Brunson wins another ring, then he should be able to claim to be the GOAT for his size and position.
Tiny Archibald is one of the greatest guards in the history of the game so this is all highly complimentary.
His title after his ACL with Boston was great, but he was not the same player.
He did not need to carry that Boston team.
I'd say Peak Tiny vs. peak Brunson was a better player but he played in relative obscurity for Cincy and the Kansas City/Omaha kings!
Brunson is kinda of an anomaly. He carried a team thru the playoffs. This is rare.
Nalod wrote:Tiny was the best of the NY point guards when the mecca was truly that.
His title after his ACL with Boston was great, but he was not the same player.
He did not need to carry that Boston team.I'd say Peak Tiny vs. peak Brunson was a better player but he played in relative obscurity for Cincy and the Kansas City/Omaha kings!
Brunson is kinda of an anomaly. He carried a team thru the playoffs. This is rare.
That's fair, though I'd say it was the starting six (i.e. Shamet) that carried the Knicks through their historic run. There were plenty of games in these playoffs where the A1 Sauce was provided by OG or KAT. What Brunson did do is close out the Spurs in Game 5. He pretty much took over for the finale.
I threw it out there when I don't see people offering any comps when making GOAT statements, because Tiny was one of the players you'd want to compare to. Also, he led the NBA in scoring one year. 36 PPG or something like that. He was a great scorer.
BlueKnickers wrote:Nalod wrote:Tiny was the best of the NY point guards when the mecca was truly that.
His title after his ACL with Boston was great, but he was not the same player.
He did not need to carry that Boston team.I'd say Peak Tiny vs. peak Brunson was a better player but he played in relative obscurity for Cincy and the Kansas City/Omaha kings!
Brunson is kinda of an anomaly. He carried a team thru the playoffs. This is rare.That's fair, though I'd say it was the starting six (i.e. Shamet) that carried the Knicks through their historic run. There were plenty of games in these playoffs where the A1 Sauce was provided by OG or KAT. What Brunson did do is close out the Spurs in Game 5. He pretty much took over for the finale.
I threw it out there when I don't see people offering any comps when making GOAT statements, because Tiny was one of the players you'd want to compare to. Also, he led the NBA in scoring one year. 36 PPG or something like that. He was a great scorer.
I'd venture to say there have been better PG's than Brunson. By that, more talent.
Here is the thing, Becky cited two exceptions: Curry and Isiah. She said if she wroing, she is wrong. Jalen became perhaps the 3rd exception. The Third to win the MVP in finals.
What Jalen has built is career of winning and punched the ticket to the HOF.
Its rare Little guys are MVP's of full seasons.
Why? They don't usually carry them to best records. Nash and curry did it. Jalen has not.
What Jalen did kind of blow the roof on his ceiling. All NBA 2? Yet he is the MVP of the finals. The thing that counts the most.
Not winnig 60 games, or 73. YOu don't win shit unless you win the chip, but what to make of a 53 win team that had not even made it to the finals, or finished in 1st place prior??
What to make of a little guys who 3 seasons made all NBA2, also previously was clutch player of the year, but finished 5th? Previous three years finished 12th, 5th, and 10thh in MVP voting but this year none. Nada!
Not because he was not brilliant, but he was not carrying the team. He was making them better thru the season.
This is not the sociopath we called Jordan. Or the Ego we called Kobe. OR the magnificence of Lebron. WE expected them to do something like this. Yet we are not suprised by Jalen are we? Winning. He Wins.
A player who thru different series was not always the front runner MVP. KAT? Then Perhaps OG? By the end of game 5 it was not even a thought he was not the MVP.
I don't know what to make of him in historical order. What he did was no doubt 1A and amazing. His resume of winning does not make any of this a shock other than IT ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPEND! This is not a rags to riches story, or aome "Cinderella" thing. He has shown it but then it happended. We all wanted it to happen!
That there were doubts? Well so what. THey were not unreasonable in my book. He proved it. He defied the norm. He defied common logic. Nobody thought it could not happen. Just not likely. Nobody is bothered to say they were wrong. Winning a chip when your not winnning the regular season is not "normal". More often that not top teams win it. We won 54 and then 53 games in the past two years.
ITs one thing to be a fan and "Believe". Nobody here thought it was impossible by any stretch we could beat Detroit, Boston, or Cleveland. Yet we had won only 53 games.
Jalen the Greatest Knick? The Greatest small guard? Top 50 all time? Shit, this kid rise is hard to fathom and I can't argue against any of it. You win MVP in the finals, you did something. You do it as a small guard? You really did something! I still can't wrap my head around it. Yet its Jalen and its no real suprise!
And I don't really care if its not in proper context. Its just fucking awesome it happend!!!!!
Maybe thats why is so special? Jalen Wins. Simple.
Nalod wrote:BlueKnickers wrote:Nalod wrote:Tiny was the best of the NY point guards when the mecca was truly that.
His title after his ACL with Boston was great, but he was not the same player.
He did not need to carry that Boston team.I'd say Peak Tiny vs. peak Brunson was a better player but he played in relative obscurity for Cincy and the Kansas City/Omaha kings!
Brunson is kinda of an anomaly. He carried a team thru the playoffs. This is rare.That's fair, though I'd say it was the starting six (i.e. Shamet) that carried the Knicks through their historic run. There were plenty of games in these playoffs where the A1 Sauce was provided by OG or KAT. What Brunson did do is close out the Spurs in Game 5. He pretty much took over for the finale.
I threw it out there when I don't see people offering any comps when making GOAT statements, because Tiny was one of the players you'd want to compare to. Also, he led the NBA in scoring one year. 36 PPG or something like that. He was a great scorer.
I'd venture to say there have been better PG's than Brunson. By that, more talent.
Here is the thing, Becky cited two exceptions: Curry and Isiah. She said if she wroing, she is wrong. Jalen became perhaps the 3rd exception. The Third to win the MVP in finals.What Jalen has built is career of winning and punched the ticket to the HOF.
Its rare Little guys are MVP's of full seasons.
Why? They don't usually carry them to best records. Nash and curry did it. Jalen has not.What Jalen did kind of blow the roof on his ceiling. All NBA 2? Yet he is the MVP of the finals. The thing that counts the most.
Not winnig 60 games, or 73. YOu don't win shit unless you win the chip, but what to make of a 53 win team that had not even made it to the finals, or finished in 1st place prior??
What to make of a little guys who 3 seasons made all NBA2, also previously was clutch player of the year, but finished 5th? Previous three years finished 12th, 5th, and 10thh in MVP voting but this year none. Nada!
Not because he was not brilliant, but he was not carrying the team. He was making them better thru the season.This is not the sociopath we called Jordan. Or the Ego we called Kobe. OR the magnificence of Lebron. WE expected them to do something like this. Yet we are not suprised by Jalen are we? Winning. He Wins.
A player who thru different series was not always the front runner MVP. KAT? Then Perhaps OG? By the end of game 5 it was not even a thought he was not the MVP.
I don't know what to make of him in historical order. What he did was no doubt 1A and amazing. His resume of winning does not make any of this a shock other than IT ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPEND! This is not a rags to riches story, or aome "Cinderella" thing. He has shown it but then it happended. We all wanted it to happen!
That there were doubts? Well so what. THey were not unreasonable in my book. He proved it. He defied the norm. He defied common logic. Nobody thought it could not happen. Just not likely. Nobody is bothered to say they were wrong. Winning a chip when your not winnning the regular season is not "normal". More often that not top teams win it. We won 54 and then 53 games in the past two years.
ITs one thing to be a fan and "Believe". Nobody here thought it was impossible by any stretch we could beat Detroit, Boston, or Cleveland. Yet we had won only 53 games.Jalen the Greatest Knick? The Greatest small guard? Top 50 all time? Shit, this kid rise is hard to fathom and I can't argue against any of it. You win MVP in the finals, you did something. You do it as a small guard? You really did something! I still can't wrap my head around it. Yet its Jalen and its no real suprise!
And I don't really care if its not in proper context. Its just fucking awesome it happend!!!!!
Maybe thats why is so special? Jalen Wins. Simple.
I'll be concise: Brunson is one of the best closers I've ever seen regardless of position and that is enough for me.
To me Clyde will always be the greatest Knick, but that is strictly personal and not offered for debate.
BlueKnickers wrote:Nalod wrote:BlueKnickers wrote:Nalod wrote:Tiny was the best of the NY point guards when the mecca was truly that.
His title after his ACL with Boston was great, but he was not the same player.
He did not need to carry that Boston team.I'd say Peak Tiny vs. peak Brunson was a better player but he played in relative obscurity for Cincy and the Kansas City/Omaha kings!
Brunson is kinda of an anomaly. He carried a team thru the playoffs. This is rare.That's fair, though I'd say it was the starting six (i.e. Shamet) that carried the Knicks through their historic run. There were plenty of games in these playoffs where the A1 Sauce was provided by OG or KAT. What Brunson did do is close out the Spurs in Game 5. He pretty much took over for the finale.
I threw it out there when I don't see people offering any comps when making GOAT statements, because Tiny was one of the players you'd want to compare to. Also, he led the NBA in scoring one year. 36 PPG or something like that. He was a great scorer.
I'd venture to say there have been better PG's than Brunson. By that, more talent.
Here is the thing, Becky cited two exceptions: Curry and Isiah. She said if she wroing, she is wrong. Jalen became perhaps the 3rd exception. The Third to win the MVP in finals.What Jalen has built is career of winning and punched the ticket to the HOF.
Its rare Little guys are MVP's of full seasons.
Why? They don't usually carry them to best records. Nash and curry did it. Jalen has not.What Jalen did kind of blow the roof on his ceiling. All NBA 2? Yet he is the MVP of the finals. The thing that counts the most.
Not winnig 60 games, or 73. YOu don't win shit unless you win the chip, but what to make of a 53 win team that had not even made it to the finals, or finished in 1st place prior??
What to make of a little guys who 3 seasons made all NBA2, also previously was clutch player of the year, but finished 5th? Previous three years finished 12th, 5th, and 10thh in MVP voting but this year none. Nada!
Not because he was not brilliant, but he was not carrying the team. He was making them better thru the season.This is not the sociopath we called Jordan. Or the Ego we called Kobe. OR the magnificence of Lebron. WE expected them to do something like this. Yet we are not suprised by Jalen are we? Winning. He Wins.
A player who thru different series was not always the front runner MVP. KAT? Then Perhaps OG? By the end of game 5 it was not even a thought he was not the MVP.
I don't know what to make of him in historical order. What he did was no doubt 1A and amazing. His resume of winning does not make any of this a shock other than IT ACTUALLY FUCKING HAPPEND! This is not a rags to riches story, or aome "Cinderella" thing. He has shown it but then it happended. We all wanted it to happen!
That there were doubts? Well so what. THey were not unreasonable in my book. He proved it. He defied the norm. He defied common logic. Nobody thought it could not happen. Just not likely. Nobody is bothered to say they were wrong. Winning a chip when your not winnning the regular season is not "normal". More often that not top teams win it. We won 54 and then 53 games in the past two years.
ITs one thing to be a fan and "Believe". Nobody here thought it was impossible by any stretch we could beat Detroit, Boston, or Cleveland. Yet we had won only 53 games.Jalen the Greatest Knick? The Greatest small guard? Top 50 all time? Shit, this kid rise is hard to fathom and I can't argue against any of it. You win MVP in the finals, you did something. You do it as a small guard? You really did something! I still can't wrap my head around it. Yet its Jalen and its no real suprise!
And I don't really care if its not in proper context. Its just fucking awesome it happend!!!!!
Maybe thats why is so special? Jalen Wins. Simple.I'll be concise: Brunson is one of the best closers I've ever seen regardless of position and that is enough for me.
To me Clyde will always be the greatest Knick, but that is strictly personal and not offered for debate.
Im kind of right there with you. Clyde was my childhood hero. I missed perhaps Reeds best years.
The "best knick ever" is not really a thing other than good pub talk.
Not for anything but at least as city so starved for a Knick hero now has a legit icon. The Bernard King thing is over hyped given its short tenure. Not that it was not great, but it was so short and lacked really any distance. Linsanity was very fun, but it was just a few weeks. THe whole gulibilty of "Melo Home" was a star phuch wet dream for Knicks attendance. A whole generation of fans false idol worship of a high volume scorer spoon fed by an effective marketing campaign led to frustration.
The five year asscention of this team and the addition/growth of Brunson has been a wonderful thing. His personality/winning aura and the intelligence of taking the step into the spotlight and then a reasonable extension putting the team in a postion to "Win" created the legacy. Credit not only Jalens character but Leons vision to sell it. You can't put a price on what Jalen means to the city and what this does for him the rest of his life.
With Duece, Mitch, and perhaps now Diawara he has created a trust not just for the money, but for the opportunity. Even with the Thibs moving on there was enough continuence with the coaching staff for the culture to continue. It all came together in the "Knick" of time!