Knicks · Want Randle back soon. And/But... (page 1)

Randle coming back, assuming he can play effectively without pain, and shaking off the rust, will give this team a whole different weapon than they have now. It has been so long since he's played, I feel like the team has evolved and is no longer the same team as when he left (not even factoring the subtraction of Grimes, and addition of the B.B.'s). This team is hustling like crazy, sharing the ball, and getting scoring contributions from most of the team. It will be interesting to see when Randle returns if he can accept that he cannot any longer afford to hold the ball as long has he has in the past, to keep it moving, trust the ball will find the open man, and also that his defensive intensity should level-up to that of the rest of the team, which is performing like a well-oiled machine.
Picture, if you will, a situation where Randle can play limited minutes in his return and bring a whole different wrinkle to the front court and the scoring profile, and then sit and the Ubuntu cooperative team play can easily hold the fort, or better. Maybe even stagger JB's and JR's minutes, so we can have one of them on the court at all times as the alpha-dog, surrounded by the rest of this junkyard full of dawgs.
My biggest concern is that I hope iHart and jHart can continue to do what they are doing so effectively when Randle returns.

Thibs bringing both Randle and Mitch off bench during playoffs cause of lack of playing time is going to be wild

I'm joking

Mostly

martin wrote:Thibs bringing both Randle and Mitch off bench during playoffs cause of lack of playing time is going to be wild

I'm joking

Mostly

I can't imagine it with Randle, but could with Mitch.
Not that I think its a bad idea. At least for this year.

Its about who finishes and if Randle got it, he plays.
If he don’t got it, Thibs will have to make the call as best he can.
If we don’t win a chip. He’ll be “wrong”.

My take is you freaking go for it. Randle will be rusty and look bad before he looks good.
This I expect.

Panos wrote:

martin wrote:Thibs bringing both Randle and Mitch off bench during playoffs cause of lack of playing time is going to be wild

I'm joking

Mostly

I can't imagine it with Randle, but could with Mitch.
Not that I think its a bad idea. At least for this year.

True.

If if if Randle does not come back until just before playoffs, it'll be interesting to see how it shakes out.

Just hope randle is mature enough to understand and not let ego dictate what he does

Nalod wrote:Its about who finishes and if Randle got it, he plays.
If he don’t got it, Thibs will have to make the call as best he can.
If we don’t win a chip. He’ll be “wrong”.

My take is you freaking go for it. Randle will be rusty and look bad before he looks good.
This I expect.

You're missing the point of the post. I already said that "assuming he can shake the rust off". My point is if he were fully healthy coming back tomorrow, what that would imply as a benefit, and what should the team try to do *not* to lose the synergies they've established in his absence. Stop being the thought police. No one criticized Thibs. For the record, I actually have *never* criticized Thibs.

Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

I'll take that!

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

oh god no... I expect Brunson to get a max/potential super max and Randle to resign as well. We already know Randle is happy playing Robin to BatBrunson so it's just a matter of how much better can we do?

Him moving agents was something else and he was always transparent about the move... something about helping a friend. There's no tension between Randle and the FO. They love Randle and his leadership

Panos wrote:

Nalod wrote:Its about who finishes and if Randle got it, he plays.
If he don’t got it, Thibs will have to make the call as best he can.
If we don’t win a chip. He’ll be “wrong”.

My take is you freaking go for it. Randle will be rusty and look bad before he looks good.
This I expect.

You're missing the point of the post. I already said that "assuming he can shake the rust off". My point is if he were fully healthy coming back tomorrow, what that would imply as a benefit, and what should the team try to do *not* to lose the synergies they've established in his absence. Stop being the thought police. No one criticized Thibs. For the record, I actually have *never* criticized Thibs.

I Think as lovely as this run has been I don' think its sustainable in the post season.
All teams shorten rotations then and I just my opinion we don't the talent depth to really contend without Randle.
Not saying he is "MVP". The Synergy with him and OG were elite in January.
Maybe you have a point but I'd think you get Randle ready including some rusty shit games.
If he comes 7/8's of himself post season you ride that. If not, you fall back on "Synergy" and hope it still exists. That makes sense to me.
If one does the "Blame Game", then perhaps im just plain wrong.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

C'mon man, We been thru this many times.
The guy at CAA left them to join another agency. After a grace period I assume players can follow.
Thats what happened. Then Randle got the Sketchers endorsement deal. Randle followed a guy he liked and the guy opened some doors for him.
Some CAA "conspiracies" might be factorial but not all are related to knicks or in the tea leaves.
I do think Randle is a logical trade asset potential and nobody is untouchable except for JB at the moment.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

To me this could be the best position to try to upgrade as I think we our near perfect at PG, SF and C. Love DDV as a complement to Brunson this season. So you gotta have Brunson, DDV, OG and Hartenstein/Mitch out there most of the time. Despite not being a full time PF - Hart proved valuable filling in for Randle. Makes me feel like we could get away most nights playing small ball with Hart and OG as the forwards. But there are situations where we do miss Randle's toughness and shot making ability at times... just not sure it outweighs the ball-holding, etc... but he deserves a chance to come back and show that he can fit in and find his offense within this new system that is more ball moving and faster paced.

If he doesn't though...
Randle for a better fitting PF or shifting OG to PF and landing another 2 way SF would be a better move vs going for Donovan Mitchell IMO.

Doubt it will happen though...

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

Ball handler?

Panos wrote:Randle coming back, assuming he can play effectively without pain, and shaking off the rust, will give this team a whole different weapon than they have now. It has been so long since he's played, I feel like the team has evolved and is no longer the same team as when he left (not even factoring the subtraction of Grimes, and addition of the B.B.'s). This team is hustling like crazy, sharing the ball, and getting scoring contributions from most of the team. It will be interesting to see when Randle returns if he can accept that he cannot any longer afford to hold the ball as long has he has in the past, to keep it moving, trust the ball will find the open man, and also that his defensive intensity should level-up to that of the rest of the team, which is performing like a well-oiled machine.
Picture, if you will, a situation where Randle can play limited minutes in his return and bring a whole different wrinkle to the front court and the scoring profile, and then sit and the Ubuntu cooperative team play can easily hold the fort, or better. Maybe even stagger JB's and JR's minutes, so we can have one of them on the court at all times as the alpha-dog, surrounded by the rest of this junkyard full of dawgs.
My biggest concern is that I hope iHart and jHart can continue to do what they are doing so effectively when Randle returns.

I feel like you are conflating pre trade Randle and post trade Randle. RJ wasn't an effective off the ball threat and cramped a lot of the spacing. With RJ Randle and iHeart on the court there were 3 below average 3 point shooters. JB DDV and OG are all lights out shooters and the extra spacing was a huge benefit to Randle. He hit 30 or more in 6/15 games with OG, shot better than 50% from 2 in all but 4 games and had 5 or more assists in 10/15. It seems a little ridiculous to worry about him coming back and hurting the team when he was absolutely dominating the game before his injury.

Post RJ trade, Thibs was already staggering JB and Randle. Giving Randle about 5 minutes at the end of the 3rd and JB 5 minutes at the beginning of the 4th to be the sole alpha. The biggest worry about Randle coming back is how it might affect IHeart. JHart has fallen off as a 3 point threat so playing the two of them with a center might cramp the spacing again. Then again, JHart playing 40 minutes a game doesn't seem like a long term plan.

Knicks have struggled with scoring since Randle has been out. If he comes back we get a high powered offense to go with the stingy d.

martin wrote:Thibs bringing both Randle and Mitch off bench during playoffs cause of lack of playing time is going to be wild

I'm joking

Mostly

I don’t expect it at all but safest re-introduction of Julius would be off the bench.

Less pressure to start, let him be more ball dominant and when he’s a full go (in sync) you adjust.

Deuce
Josh
Bogey
Julius
Mitch

Could be fun group or you switch Burks in for Bogey but Julius may be able to unlock Burks/Bogey with some kick outs.

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

Interesting thought - if he believes he’s on the way out is it in his best interest to sit out 1) doesn’t risk injury 2) rather than be a potential scapegoat he is viewed as missing piece because he was hurt and we fall short

LivingLegend wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

Interesting thought - if he believes he’s on the way out is it in his best interest to sit out 1) doesn’t risk injury 2) rather than be a potential scapegoat he is viewed as missing piece because he was hurt and we fall short

is it you all's first day here? Randle is not going anywhere... skinny saying PF is an area we can upgrade. Really? There's a 25/10/5 2x AS in his prime and is a proven fit here. Cmon guys... Randle is getting extended next season. They are locking these 3 up

Get to hear from him directly in a few hours.

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fishmike wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:

fishmike wrote:Mitch is coming off the bench.... Randle's shot might be off, but he's still a great facilitator and ball handler. Really just comes down to what version of him returns.

Homer in me tells me the worst scenario is we have a good run but Randle needs surgery but ends up being piece we need to win a title next year

My feeling is that Randle is on his way out. If we are assuming that OG joining CAA is an indicator that he will re-sign with the Knicks. Does Randle leaving CAA give the opposite? Randle/Bogs would appear to be the salary package in any trade for a top 20 player, no?

Interesting thought - if he believes he’s on the way out is it in his best interest to sit out 1) doesn’t risk injury 2) rather than be a potential scapegoat he is viewed as missing piece because he was hurt and we fall short

is it you all's first day here? Randle is not going anywhere... skinny saying PF is an area we can upgrade. Really? There's a 25/10/5 2x AS in his prime and is a proven fit here. Cmon guys... Randle is getting extended next season. They are locking these 3 up

100% Randle isn’t going anywhere, when this team is healthy they complement each other so well. A healthy OG is the ultimate glue . Add a DPOY candidate in Mitch and a 2 time all star in Randle who is playing great prior to injury.

You could argue a Knicks healthy rotation is the best in the east and The Knicks when healthy have a legitimate chance of winning the title.

I’ve been a born and raised Knick fan that lived through the Ewing years. I don’t even think it’s debatable, this is the best roster of my lifetime of watching knick basketball.
I don’t even think it’s debatable, if Ewing had this roster he’d be a champion.

A healthy focused Randle is going to make us very hard to beat. A big as talented as Randle is only going to be moved for another equally or more talented big if that opportunity comes about, I expect our guys in the front office to act accordingly. With that said there’s not that many bigs better than Randle.