Watching these 2 preseason games so far and I am seeing that everything with this offense depends on OG. Dude is getting open shots everytime. If he can nail those open 3s at a 40% clip then we are golden. His off the dribble mid range from a swing swing is also very lethal.
Josh is concentrating on rebounds and making the hockey assist. While the opposing team is just laying off OG.
Teams are also getting sticky with Mikal. They are not leaving him.
NYKBocker wrote:Watching these 2 preseason games so far and I am seeing that everything with this offense depends on OG. Dude is getting open shots everytime. If he can nail those open 3s at a 40% clip then we are golden. His off the dribble mid range from a swing swing is also very lethal.Josh is concentrating on rebounds and making the hockey assist. While the opposing team is just laying off OG.
Teams are also getting sticky with Mikal. They are not leaving him.
He's averaged 16-17pts over 3 seasons with the Raptors. There is enough data that shows its not necessarily an if. As Knicks aren't asking him to do anything more offensively than the strengths of his current skill set.
His handle and shot creation is subpar on the wing. But for a PF its above average haha.
we had him for barely half a year and it's easy to see he's special.
First off I am not even sure he's wing, and I think Leon/Thibs also kinda figured this out. He's really a stretch big who can guard smaller guys. He's really huge. I would say he's an inch (maybe) shorter than Jules but has 2 inches on the wingspan (this is verified, Jules is 7' and OG is 7'2). Jules is more explosive. OG has a stronger base. Both are really powerful guys.
So when I look at the league and the playoff teams there's no doubt in my mind OG is a 4. What (obviously) makes him so special is his ability to shoot and defend like... anyone. He's got a great slashing game. He's not the fluid athlete Randle is. OG reminds me a bit of Tim Thomas on offense... really good athlete. Kinda doesnt know what he's doing at all times but I think as the 3rd/4th scoring option he's exceptional. You see his ability to get buckets is mostly built around his size/power/length combo. He's showing a little pull up J as well.
Meanwhile Mikal is clearly a wing. He's so skinny and long. He's perfect. My "dream" guy for this squad was always some kinda hybrid of Kris Middleton and Tayshaun Prince. A long rangy wing who drills 3 and gobbles up scorers. Mikal is a brilliant fit.
It's really having both that makes this so special. Either is great. Both is how you win a chip. They are almost the same in length. Mikal is 6'7 with a 7'1 wingspan. These guys are like vultures with their length. The key is their versatility together. You can go big with them at the 2/3 or you can play another guard and they are the 3/4. Either of those combos is going to be great. Both are true 2 way players with very good scoring chops and elite defense.
God forbid they are healthy the formula is nuts:
Brunson/Towns break down the defenses
Mikal/OG 3rd/4th scoring options and elite defense
Mix and match: Josh, McBride, Mitch
You can really make some nasty combos with those 7 guys. I can't phucking wait.
newyorknewyork wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Watching these 2 preseason games so far and I am seeing that everything with this offense depends on OG. Dude is getting open shots everytime. If he can nail those open 3s at a 40% clip then we are golden. His off the dribble mid range from a swing swing is also very lethal.Josh is concentrating on rebounds and making the hockey assist. While the opposing team is just laying off OG.
Teams are also getting sticky with Mikal. They are not leaving him.
He's averaged 16-17pts over 3 seasons with the Raptors. There is enough data that shows its not necessarily an if. As Knicks aren't asking him to do anything more offensively than the strengths of his current skill set.
His handle and shot creation is subpar on the wing. But for a PF its above average haha.
haha indeed as I just wrote a dissertation on why OG is 4 and I didnt see this first
Good call
fishmike wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Watching these 2 preseason games so far and I am seeing that everything with this offense depends on OG. Dude is getting open shots everytime. If he can nail those open 3s at a 40% clip then we are golden. His off the dribble mid range from a swing swing is also very lethal.Josh is concentrating on rebounds and making the hockey assist. While the opposing team is just laying off OG.
Teams are also getting sticky with Mikal. They are not leaving him.
He's averaged 16-17pts over 3 seasons with the Raptors. There is enough data that shows its not necessarily an if. As Knicks aren't asking him to do anything more offensively than the strengths of his current skill set.
His handle and shot creation is subpar on the wing. But for a PF its above average haha.
haha indeed as I just wrote a dissertation on why OG is 4 and I didnt see this first Good call
They’ll be moments where OG makes a move into the lane and he reminds me of MJ- that absolute athletic ability to gracefully attack.
franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:NYKBocker wrote:Watching these 2 preseason games so far and I am seeing that everything with this offense depends on OG. Dude is getting open shots everytime. If he can nail those open 3s at a 40% clip then we are golden. His off the dribble mid range from a swing swing is also very lethal.Josh is concentrating on rebounds and making the hockey assist. While the opposing team is just laying off OG.
Teams are also getting sticky with Mikal. They are not leaving him.
He's averaged 16-17pts over 3 seasons with the Raptors. There is enough data that shows its not necessarily an if. As Knicks aren't asking him to do anything more offensively than the strengths of his current skill set.
His handle and shot creation is subpar on the wing. But for a PF its above average haha.
haha indeed as I just wrote a dissertation on why OG is 4 and I didnt see this first Good call
They’ll be moments where OG makes a move into the lane and he reminds me of MJ- that absolute athletic ability to gracefully attack.
you think OG is... graceful? I mean his euro step looks like he's crossing a floor littered with legos (in the dark)
Also I phucking love OG.
OG staying HEALTHY is KEY!!
OG is has an "elegance" to his power. By that, his power is understated and not raw. His delivery is not rushed but all of a sudden the lane is open and he is power dunking it. Its like his exertion is "Graceful" perhaps. That last push to the rim when he is driving seems improbable but then the explosion just happens and its cool. If at home the crowd goes nuts.
His demeanor is also chill and understated. He won't preen, flex or yell much. Just destroys his opponents then calmly moves on.
Thus, a sort of "elegance" to him. Its a silly label perhaps.
Jordan had a flair about him. He talked, had as stare, and a very extrovert stance. Everyone in the building felt his presence.
Nalod wrote:OG is has an "elegance" to his power. By that, his power is understated and not raw. His delivery is not rushed but all of a sudden the lane is open and he is power dunking it. Its like his exertion is "Graceful" perhaps. That last push to the rim when he is driving seems improbable but then the explosion just happens and its cool. If at home the crowd goes nuts.
His demeanor is also chill and understated. He won't preen, flex or yell much. Just destroys his opponents then calmly moves on.
Thus, a sort of "elegance" to him. Its a silly label perhaps. Jordan had a flair about him. He talked, had as stare, and a very extrovert stance. Everyone in the building felt his presence.
Elegance w/ power is a better label than the animal reference I heard.
Unselfishness, Powerful with a soft touch.
In 2k world his label would be:
2 Way 3 level shot creator
He would be a great build.
Was trading for OG the writing on the wall that Randle was on his way out or do you think the KAT trade was more about filling the hole at center?
One thing that's really stood out in preseason has been KAT misfiring on so many 3s. I think once he starts hitting those, the reliance on OG should be a lot less.
gradyandrew wrote:Was trading for OG the writing on the wall that Randle was on his way out or do you think the KAT trade was more about filling the hole at center?One thing that's really stood out in preseason has been KAT misfiring on so many 3s. I think once he starts hitting those, the reliance on OG should be a lot less.
I think its easy to look back and perceive Leon had a master plan and it came together perfectly.
Perhaps its more about creating opportunities. No doubt he was after Donovan Mitchell but the price was too high. Getting Brunson negated that. Thus we had assets to do other things. Much of that was spend on Mikal.
As for Randle? I think he was on his way out as he was not a good fit with RJ. With OG, it was fine as he was a complimentary type player and the 14-2 January was evident. DDV negated the IQ loss.
My take is Leon coveted KAT and to many of us the most obvious piece to trade was Randle which is a good fit for Minny. If before his max deal kicks in the salaries were a bit easier to match. KAT had a really good season and perhaps his market value increased.
Did Minny shop him? The back story is Leon has been calling about him for some time. A team like the Nets could thro a lot of picks or yoot but in win now mode Minny needed a "all star" in return.
I think Leon would have tried to do this deal even if we had retained iHart. Mitch likely gets traded eventually in that scenario. That still is logical depending on our back ups and what's out there. Make no mistake, the "hole" we had at the 5 was real and maybe a sense of urgency was real. Minny got a good deal for KAT.
Opportunity and Leon had the pieces in place. MIkal also negates the need for DDV. Im not saying I would prefer to have kept him somehow, but "Need" and "Want" are two separate issues.
KAT and Brunson are a very solid core with OG and Mikal. If we don't round out the rest of the roster this year the window is still there for a while. Leon can go all in if the team executes and exhibits good health by the trade deadline. If not the window is open for a few more years.
gradyandrew wrote:Was trading for OG the writing on the wall that Randle was on his way out or do you think the KAT trade was more about filling the hole at center?One thing that's really stood out in preseason has been KAT misfiring on so many 3s. I think once he starts hitting those, the reliance on OG should be a lot less.
they always wanted KAT. That was one factor. I think biggest thing was the FO quickly saw OG/Randle play the same position and despite all Randle brings OG is the better fit at the 4 in a Brunson centric offense. Brunson/KAT is more dynamic/dangerous/versatile than Brunson/Randle as your 1/2. When OG got the bag Randle's future was falling under the "asset management" umbrella
Sorry Jules 
Donte you were collateral damage 
Nalod wrote:gradyandrew wrote:Was trading for OG the writing on the wall that Randle was on his way out or do you think the KAT trade was more about filling the hole at center?One thing that's really stood out in preseason has been KAT misfiring on so many 3s. I think once he starts hitting those, the reliance on OG should be a lot less.
I think its easy to look back and perceive Leon had a master plan and it came together perfectly.
Perhaps its more about creating opportunities. No doubt he was after Donovan Mitchell but the price was too high. Getting Brunson negated that. Thus we had assets to do other things. Much of that was spend on Mikal.
As for Randle? I think he was on his way out as he was not a good fit with RJ. With OG, it was fine as he was a complimentary type player and the 14-2 January was evident. DDV negated the IQ loss.
My take is Leon coveted KAT and to many of us the most obvious piece to trade was Randle which is a good fit for Minny. If before his max deal kicks in the salaries were a bit easier to match. KAT had a really good season and perhaps his market value increased.
Did Minny shop him? The back story is Leon has been calling about him for some time. A team like the Nets could thro a lot of picks or yoot but in win now mode Minny needed a "all star" in return.
I think Leon would have tried to do this deal even if we had retained iHart. Mitch likely gets traded eventually in that scenario. That still is logical depending on our back ups and what's out there. Make no mistake, the "hole" we had at the 5 was real and maybe a sense of urgency was real. Minny got a good deal for KAT.
Opportunity and Leon had the pieces in place. MIkal also negates the need for DDV. Im not saying I would prefer to have kept him somehow, but "Need" and "Want" are two separate issues.
KAT and Brunson are a very solid core with OG and Mikal. If we don't round out the rest of the roster this year the window is still there for a while. Leon can go all in if the team executes and exhibits good health by the trade deadline. If not the window is open for a few more years.
+100 I think you nailed it right there.
You see our record when OG plays. Dude always been the key
Inconsistent game number 1
OG's legacy and sweet sweet plus/minus Knicks numbers took a Snoop Dog sized hiiiiit last night
I’m thinking the problem with our play was OG was not in a position he has ever played before - being the 4. And I get the whole positionless basketball of the modern game, but could this be the issue with his play in game 1, besides the enormity of living up to a $200M contract.
Here is my hang it out there fire Thibs- we’ve got to get OG back to the 3 and get a real PF in the line up. Hopefully we get Prescious back healthy, but ,maybe put Ariel Hukporti or Simms in, slide KT and OG over, and move either Josh or Bridges to the bench.
franco12 wrote:I’m thinking the problem with our play was OG was not in a position he has ever played before - being the 4. And I get the whole positionless basketball of the modern game, but could this be the issue with his play in game 1, besides the enormity of living up to a $200M contract.Here is my hang it out there fire Thibs- we’ve got to get OG back to the 3 and get a real PF in the line up. Hopefully we get Prescious back healthy, but ,maybe put Ariel Hukporti or Simms in, slide KT and OG over, and move either Josh or Bridges to the bench.
OG was the same position in the playoffs and regular season as he is now. He only played a few games with Randle. His role hasn’t changed since he’s been with the Knicks.
franco12 wrote:I’m thinking the problem with our play was OG was not in a position he has ever played before - being the 4. And I get the whole positionless basketball of the modern game, but could this be the issue with his play in game 1, besides the enormity of living up to a $200M contract.Here is my hang it out there fire Thibs- we’ve got to get OG back to the 3 and get a real PF in the line up. Hopefully we get Prescious back healthy, but ,maybe put Ariel Hukporti or Simms in, slide KT and OG over, and move either Josh or Bridges to the bench.
Only way I see the FO thinking about firing Thibs is if we're relatively healthy, and still cant get past the 2nd round.
While OG is the key I agree, the main thing is just rebuilding chemistry. It’s not typical for a team to add 2 major pieces in 1 offseason. This is a brand new team that just added 2 top 50 players. That’s a major adjustment no matter what and it will take time. This same Knicks team has started slow the last couple of years. The championship Celtics even started slow in previous seasons.
fishmike wrote:we had him for barely half a year and it's easy to see he's special.First off I am not even sure he's wing, and I think Leon/Thibs also kinda figured this out. He's really a stretch big who can guard smaller guys. He's really huge. I would say he's an inch (maybe) shorter than Jules but has 2 inches on the wingspan (this is verified, Jules is 7' and OG is 7'2). Jules is more explosive. OG has a stronger base. Both are really powerful guys.
So when I look at the league and the playoff teams there's no doubt in my mind OG is a 4. What (obviously) makes him so special is his ability to shoot and defend like... anyone. He's got a great slashing game. He's not the fluid athlete Randle is. OG reminds me a bit of Tim Thomas on offense... really good athlete. Kinda doesnt know what he's doing at all times but I think as the 3rd/4th scoring option he's exceptional. You see his ability to get buckets is mostly built around his size/power/length combo. He's showing a little pull up J as well.
Meanwhile Mikal is clearly a wing. He's so skinny and long. He's perfect. My "dream" guy for this squad was always some kinda hybrid of Kris Middleton and Tayshaun Prince. A long rangy wing who drills 3 and gobbles up scorers. Mikal is a brilliant fit.
It's really having both that makes this so special. Either is great. Both is how you win a chip. They are almost the same in length. Mikal is 6'7 with a 7'1 wingspan. These guys are like vultures with their length. The key is their versatility together. You can go big with them at the 2/3 or you can play another guard and they are the 3/4. Either of those combos is going to be great. Both are true 2 way players with very good scoring chops and elite defense.
God forbid they are healthy the formula is nuts:
Brunson/Towns break down the defenses
Mikal/OG 3rd/4th scoring options and elite defense
Mix and match: Josh, McBride, Mitch
You can really make some nasty combos with those 7 guys. I can't phucking wait.
Great analysis...totally agree. It's the pieces that solidify our contention window.
