Knicks · The Defense is Terrible (page 1)

Towns is certainly not a plus defender like Mitch or Hartenstein, but we traded Randle who is not a positive defender and added Bridges who supposedly is.

How is it we have the 2nd worst defense in the league based on defensive efficiency.

I missed the Indy game but read they exposed our weak 3pt defense. But o thought with Kay we have weak rim protection?

Sooooo basically we are bad at guarding anywhere period. At the rim and away from the rim. Hence this explains our poor start.

blkexec wrote:I missed the Indy game but read they exposed our weak 3pt defense. But o thought with Kay we have weak rim protection?

Sooooo basically we are bad at guarding anywhere period. At the rim and away from the rim. Hence this explains our poor start.

It's a lot of things. We need to sag into the paint because bad rim protection, which leads to open threes. That doesn't account for the miscommunication and bad on the ball switching. Thibs has his work cut out for him.

ItalianStallion wrote:Towns is certainly not a plus defender like Mitch or Hartenstein, but we traded Randle who is not a positive defender and added Bridges who supposedly is.

How is it we have the 2nd worst defense in the league based on defensive efficiency.

We are starting to see why Minny gave up so much to get Gobert. It also looks to me like no one benefitted more by having a rim protector behind them as Brunson. It is looking more and more like the answer has been on our bench the entire time but is still rehabbing his ankle.

Last season we played differently so we can continue trying to adjust but it seems like we are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole (KAT defense). KAT and Minn only really enjoyed significant playoff success when Gobert played alongside him to shore up his defensive limitations. We have Mitch returning soon so we may be best served at trying to replicate that since we have a solid defense at most of the other positions (sans Brunson). So maybe we don't play 5 and out but we simply keep last season's formula with KAT subbed in for Randle and see how we perform. I personally can't stand this offensive style of outside in/3pt focus as that style takes away from our defensive tenacity which seemed like our strength last year. We grinded against Sixers and Pacers and just needed a little more offensive boost (and we had lots of injuries)...so why revamp everything when KAT offers similar offensive production and effort if he is at the 4 spot. You can play 4 undersized players next to Mitch but it just doesn't work when KAT is at the 5. So maybe we should start Hukporti at the 5... until Precious returns when we may be able to get away with KAT playing 5 until Mitch is ready/healed.

1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

When people think about building chemistry they think offense, but defense also needs to do the same. The offense is just coming along faster than the defense. They will get it sorted out. Mitch and/or Achiuwa will help give different looks. More depth means starters won’t have to conserve energy. It’s really not much of a concern. To me the big thing is Mikal figuring things out because he’s the key as the initial point of attack defender.

This is missing Mitch, iHart, Randle. Even Precious too

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EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

martin wrote:This is missing Mitch, iHart, Randle. Even Precious too

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I’m sounding like a broken record- I apologize, but maybe Sims needs to get out there some in these situations.

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

I think Achiuwa is the PF I would accept.

Thibs don’t like it either

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franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

Dont believe the team would prosper with a PF who brings zero offense. When KP was a rookie. Robin Lopez would take the toughest defensive assignment. How often is OG doing that?

GustavBahler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

Dont believe the team would prosper with a PF who brings zero offense. When KP was a rookie. Robin Lopez would take the toughest defensive assignment. How often is OG doing that?

Did Dennis Rodman score?

Not comparing Sims at all. But, Sims can help balance the starting 5, provide some extra beef upfront to grab some boards.

Sims is break glass in emergency PF for me. Absolutely swap Prescious in when returns.

Maybe we don’t have to worry so much about the paint if we have Kat and Sims on the floor together, and our wings can actually stick with their man at the 3pt line.

franco12 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

Dont believe the team would prosper with a PF who brings zero offense. When KP was a rookie. Robin Lopez would take the toughest defensive assignment. How often is OG doing that?

Did Dennis Rodman score?

Not comparing Sims at all. But, Sims can help balance the starting 5, provide some extra beef upfront to grab some boards.

Sims is break glass in emergency PF for me. Absolutely swap Prescious in when returns.

Maybe we don’t have to worry so much about the paint if we have Kat and Sims on the floor together, and our wings can actually stick with their man at the 3pt line.

Its funny you should mention Rodman, I was going to mention him, as an outlier. A HOF outlier, defensive player of the year. Or Ben Wallace for that matter. You need that good a player to make up for the lack of offense.

Sims doesnt have the court awareness that those players did either. It worked with Mitch because he was a game changing defender/rebounder.

Id try Precious first. But Im not crazy about the idea of OG going back to chasing wings. I get the feeling it will wear him down faster than at PF.

ItalianStallion wrote:Towns is certainly not a plus defender like Mitch or Hartenstein, but we traded Randle who is not a positive defender and added Bridges who supposedly is.

How is it we have the 2nd worst defense in the league based on defensive efficiency.

Because right now Bridges suck on everything.

Yes, Towns isn’t going to clean up mistakes like Mitch and IHart used to do, but he wasn’t supposed to because we had Bridges and OG doing their tricks. Well, so far OG is handling his business, but Bridges is a reading problem. He is always late in his cover, somehow doesn’t know how to move under screens and then doesn’t recover on time. Last game against the Pacers was a freaking nightmare. He would do that, which would free a 3pt shooter on one end, then he would take a bad jumper and clank it on the other side.

It’s ironic that the Towns move has been so criticized, yet it’s the Bridges move that it’s proving to be a bust so far. With the “need to change my jumper” that still looks like a mess and now this trouble with something that was supposed to be a strength, his D, I’m really hating the move.

And yes, other players take their blame too. Hart has been torched in consecutive nights by players having career nights against him. Brunson looks slow and even confused on defense sometimes. The defense sucks so bad.

But Bridges to me has been a huge disappointment so far.

BigDaddyG wrote:

blkexec wrote:I missed the Indy game but read they exposed our weak 3pt defense. But o thought with Kay we have weak rim protection?

Sooooo basically we are bad at guarding anywhere period. At the rim and away from the rim. Hence this explains our poor start.

It's a lot of things. We need to sag into the paint because bad rim protection, which leads to open threes. That doesn't account for the miscommunication and bad on the ball switching. Thibs has his work cut out for him.

This is old school gameplay which doesn’t take into account that now teams shoot 40+ three pointers a game. Thibs needs to change his defense or else he will truly be in the hot seat soon, because teams won’t stop shooting threes.

GustavBahler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:

franco12 wrote:

EwingsGlass wrote:1) OG belongs at SF as his base position. This isn’t to say he can’t guard the others, but having him at SF is a positional size advantage that we are not taking advantage of.

2) Bridges, Hart and OG can’t all be free safeties. They are all stunting — a lot. I don’t mean any disrespect to Hart, as I see him as really good complement to the team with his versatility, but I’d feel a lot more comfortable with a starting caliber PF - JB-MB-OG-__-KAT

3) KAT’s defense will improve here, but he isn’t the real problem. He is a willing defender. He is not the breakdown on defense. It’s the rotations and stunting. Some of this is communication, some of it is just getting used to each other.

4) Having a bench will help. These guys looked gassed in the 4th. But other teams are also making adjustments and while they have players to make adjustments when healthy, they don’t really have the ability to throw a different look on the court.

5) Starting caliber PF would be my primary upgrade. Defensive PF. Eason, JJJ, Jones, Isaac all have their plausibility. But JJJ, imo, would lock this team up. Brunson/Bridges/OG/JJJ/KAT? Would be a bonanza

This is why I think we should have Sims start alongside Kat- he’s not the PF any of us want- but he adds interior defense, solid rebounding. That allows you to move OG to SF.

Hart to the bench (and/or Bridges) strengthens the bench. I’m not suggesting giving Sims really any more than 20/24 mins.

Dont believe the team would prosper with a PF who brings zero offense. When KP was a rookie. Robin Lopez would take the toughest defensive assignment. How often is OG doing that?

Did Dennis Rodman score?

Not comparing Sims at all. But, Sims can help balance the starting 5, provide some extra beef upfront to grab some boards.

Sims is break glass in emergency PF for me. Absolutely swap Prescious in when returns.

Maybe we don’t have to worry so much about the paint if we have Kat and Sims on the floor together, and our wings can actually stick with their man at the 3pt line.

Its funny you should mention Rodman, I was going to mention him, as an outlier. A HOF outlier, defensive player of the year. Or Ben Wallace for that matter. You need that good a player to make up for the lack of offense.

Sims doesnt have the court awareness that those players did either. It worked with Mitch because he was a game changing defender/rebounder.

Id try Precious first. But Im not crazy about the idea of OG going back to chasing wings. I get the feeling it will wear him down faster than at PF.

Yep, Precious can’t come back fast enough. He is the guy we should start at PF. I’m very curious to see if it has the positive effect that I’m expecting. Yet Bridges has to get his act right. If he keeps messing up, this defense is gonna keep leaving a man open.

I love the idea of starting Precious in place of Hart. He rebounds, plays D, is mobile and can hit an occasional outside shot. This means Thibs can gives the starters a rest because he actually trusts Hart.

Trading all our 1st for Mikal Bridges instead of trading for a defensive anchor at the 5 might be the biggest mistake this team has made since the starpucking era.
It is even worse cause we were so close from contending with the team we had last year.

Add to that Thibodeau’s habit of killing our starters…

All about defensive rotations.
Mentioned several games ago that JB and KAT are counting on wings to do most of it.!
Feel KAT has to cover drives more against stretch 5’s
He is also not a vertical defender protecting the rim. Aka Mitch

Think all this will be worked out. Just need to give these guys time to gel. Not sure what some expected but when you put three new guys in starting rotation (2 major pieces new to the team), you will have growing pains.