Knicks · Friday Night Redemption - OKC visits the Big City- 7:30 MSG (page 2)

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:OKC brings in a one game losing streak, courtesy of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Do I hear 2?

Knicks played them tough for a half and then lost steam amid an abundance of starter minutes and tired legs.

This is a must win, if you are going to argue this is a championship caliber roster/coach.

Its one game of 82. Still blaming Thibs for everyone being hurt end of the year? OKC is 13-4 on the road. But if we don't win we are not a serious team? Y'all are funny fans.

We have literally no bench. McBride is hurt and not the same player as last year. When he's effective he plays more. Precious just coming back. Shamet just coming back. When Thibs played Sims too much fans people thought he had Thib's nudes or something... then when he plays KAT 40 minutes it's same old Thibs... never uses his bench.

It's literally the same circle jerk with this fan base. Thank god we have Nalod who has transcended this and can lead us to enlightenment.

So TLDR: OKC opened the season as and still is a title favorite. There is not one team in the league with more talent. They are fantastic. A win would be great. Winning doesnt prove "we are here" nor does losing prove we dont belong. Its a long season.. its how you finish AND where.

I think I am a realistic fan. Yes, it is a long season. No- we do have a bench, just Thibs has decided that he doesn’t want to play any of the players there- no, I am not saying Kolek and Simms can go toe to toe with the starters from opposing teams- and yes, they may be one of the weaker benchs out there- but they are on the roster and can provide more minutes than they have.

OKC is literally shorthanded as well- missing Chet & Caruso.

If we don’t win, then yes- not a team that poses any threat of winning a championship barring unforeseen and unrealistic events (serious injuries to Celts/OKC/etc).

Maybe my assessment is poor, but that is where I stand.

I think the team can beat OKC - they were up big in the first half, proved we could score on them. They (OKC) may have started the game flat like we do so often.

It’s not just me that sees it this way - Mike Lupica literally wrote an article about more or less the same thing.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:OKC brings in a one game losing streak, courtesy of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Do I hear 2?

Knicks played them tough for a half and then lost steam amid an abundance of starter minutes and tired legs.

This is a must win, if you are going to argue this is a championship caliber roster/coach.

Its one game of 82. Still blaming Thibs for everyone being hurt end of the year? OKC is 13-4 on the road. But if we don't win we are not a serious team? Y'all are funny fans.

We have literally no bench. McBride is hurt and not the same player as last year. When he's effective he plays more. Precious just coming back. Shamet just coming back. When Thibs played Sims too much fans people thought he had Thib's nudes or something... then when he plays KAT 40 minutes it's same old Thibs... never uses his bench.

It's literally the same circle jerk with this fan base. Thank god we have Nalod who has transcended this and can lead us to enlightenment.

So TLDR: OKC opened the season as and still is a title favorite. There is not one team in the league with more talent. They are fantastic. A win would be great. Winning doesnt prove "we are here" nor does losing prove we dont belong. Its a long season.. its how you finish AND where.

I think I am a realistic fan. Yes, it is a long season. No- we do have a bench, just Thibs has decided that he doesn’t want to play any of the players there- no, I am not saying Kolek and Simms can go toe to toe with the starters from opposing teams- and yes, they may be one of the weaker benchs out there- but they are on the roster and can provide more minutes than they have.

OKC is literally shorthanded as well- missing Chet & Caruso.

If we don’t win, then yes- not a team that poses any threat of winning a championship barring unforeseen and unrealistic events (serious injuries to Celts/OKC/etc).

Maybe my assessment is poor, but that is where I stand.

I think the team can beat OKC - they were up big in the first half, proved we could score on them. They (OKC) may have started the game flat like we do so often.

It’s not just me that sees it this way - Mike Lupica literally wrote an article about more or less the same thing.

Are you watching the games these days? I mean just use your eyes man. The bench have been terrible. They are just coming around and as such getting more time/trust. McBride would have been a 30mpg bench player but he's been hurt an ineffective at times. It is what it is.

I do watch games, but I’ve missed seeing the bench players because they don’t!

I’m not advocating to start Kolek or even necessarily play him minutes- I just want to see our starters play minutes more in line with what other franchises- who btw, have just as bad a bench as ours.

I’ve also advocated starting Sims (before Prescious came back) and moving Bridges to the bench (when he was struggling) to help balance out the fire power a bit better.

And yes- Chimpmuk is putting up decent enough numbers, but the way he lets shots fly disturb me.

But- we’ve seen Kolek Hukporti all perform ok in stretches- not advocating for a 10 man rotation, just like I said - not riding Brunson, Kat, Bridges into the ground. They will get tired, they will get hurt - other franchises practice load management because they’ve seen the data.

SergioNYK wrote:We're 0-3 in what I'd call "big games" this season - season opener @ Boston, tournament game vs Atlanta and last game @ OKC.

We got to start showing and proving we can win these type of games!

I feel like the first Orlando game was a big game. With Franz they were 2nd or 3rd in the East and rolling. We destroyed them. Minnesota on the road was a big game. They were on a good streak defensively and it was obviously a big matchup based on the trade. And we kicked the crap out of them too. I think we have gotten up for these types of games. The opener was tough, but in retrospect we also had the Cavs in the bag early in the year too and then we blew it (similar to the OKC game).

martin wrote:

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He should get a great ovation. He was a great player for us that got paid more than we were allowed to pay him. He brought a lot of hustle, grit and skill to the table. Its no wonder he's like OKC's version of acquiring Anunoby.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:OKC brings in a one game losing streak, courtesy of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Do I hear 2?

Knicks played them tough for a half and then lost steam amid an abundance of starter minutes and tired legs.

This is a must win, if you are going to argue this is a championship caliber roster/coach.

Its one game of 82. Still blaming Thibs for everyone being hurt end of the year? OKC is 13-4 on the road. But if we don't win we are not a serious team? Y'all are funny fans.

We have literally no bench. McBride is hurt and not the same player as last year. When he's effective he plays more. Precious just coming back. Shamet just coming back. When Thibs played Sims too much fans people thought he had Thib's nudes or something... then when he plays KAT 40 minutes it's same old Thibs... never uses his bench.

It's literally the same circle jerk with this fan base. Thank god we have Nalod who has transcended this and can lead us to enlightenment.

So TLDR: OKC opened the season as and still is a title favorite. There is not one team in the league with more talent. They are fantastic. A win would be great. Winning doesnt prove "we are here" nor does losing prove we dont belong. Its a long season.. its how you finish AND where.

I think I am a realistic fan. Yes, it is a long season. No- we do have a bench, just Thibs has decided that he doesn’t want to play any of the players there- no, I am not saying Kolek and Simms can go toe to toe with the starters from opposing teams- and yes, they may be one of the weaker benchs out there- but they are on the roster and can provide more minutes than they have.

OKC is literally shorthanded as well- missing Chet & Caruso.

If we don’t win, then yes- not a team that poses any threat of winning a championship barring unforeseen and unrealistic events (serious injuries to Celts/OKC/etc).

Maybe my assessment is poor, but that is where I stand.

I think the team can beat OKC - they were up big in the first half, proved we could score on them. They (OKC) may have started the game flat like we do so often.

It’s not just me that sees it this way - Mike Lupica literally wrote an article about more or less the same thing.

Are you watching the games these days? I mean just use your eyes man. The bench have been terrible. They are just coming around and as such getting more time/trust. McBride would have been a 30mpg bench player but he's been hurt an ineffective at times. It is what it is.

I do watch games, but I’ve missed seeing the bench players because they don’t!

I’m not advocating to start Kolek or even necessarily play him minutes- I just want to see our starters play minutes more in line with what other franchises- who btw, have just as bad a bench as ours.

I’ve also advocated starting Sims (before Prescious came back) and moving Bridges to the bench (when he was struggling) to help balance out the fire power a bit better.

And yes- Chimpmuk is putting up decent enough numbers, but the way he lets shots fly disturb me.

But- we’ve seen Kolek Hukporti all perform ok in stretches- not advocating for a 10 man rotation, just like I said - not riding Brunson, Kat, Bridges into the ground. They will get tired, they will get hurt - other franchises practice load management because they’ve seen the data.

Minutes Per Game
1. Mikal Bridges • NYK 39.1
2. Josh Hart • NYK 37.7
3. De'Aaron Fox • SAC 37.3
4. Tyrese Maxey • PHI 37.3
5. Nikola Jokić • DEN 37.1
6. Jamal Murray • DEN 36.7
7. Devin Booker • PHO 36.6
8. OG Anunoby • NYK 36.5
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 36.4
10. Anthony Edwards • MIN 36.4
11. Jalen Johnson • ATL 36.3
12. Kevin Durant • PHO 36.0
13. Damian Lillard • MIL 36.0
14. Domantas Sabonis • SAC 35.9
15. Trae Young • ATL 35.7
16. Fred VanVleet • HOU 35.6
17. Jaylen Brown • BOS 35.6
18. Kyrie Irving • DAL 35.6
19. Cade Cunningham • DET 35.6
20. Keegan Murray • SAC 35.5

VDesai wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:We're 0-3 in what I'd call "big games" this season - season opener @ Boston, tournament game vs Atlanta and last game @ OKC.

We got to start showing and proving we can win these type of games!

I feel like the first Orlando game was a big game. With Franz they were 2nd or 3rd in the East and rolling. We destroyed them. Minnesota on the road was a big game. They were on a good streak defensively and it was obviously a big matchup based on the trade. And we kicked the crap out of them too. I think we have gotten up for these types of games. The opener was tough, but in retrospect we also had the Cavs in the bag early in the year too and then we blew it (similar to the OKC game).

Denver game too? Spurs are definitely not a top tier game but that Xmas effort seemed significant, with Wendy getting the unusual 40 minutes.

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:OKC brings in a one game losing streak, courtesy of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Do I hear 2?

Knicks played them tough for a half and then lost steam amid an abundance of starter minutes and tired legs.

This is a must win, if you are going to argue this is a championship caliber roster/coach.

Its one game of 82. Still blaming Thibs for everyone being hurt end of the year? OKC is 13-4 on the road. But if we don't win we are not a serious team? Y'all are funny fans.

We have literally no bench. McBride is hurt and not the same player as last year. When he's effective he plays more. Precious just coming back. Shamet just coming back. When Thibs played Sims too much fans people thought he had Thib's nudes or something... then when he plays KAT 40 minutes it's same old Thibs... never uses his bench.

It's literally the same circle jerk with this fan base. Thank god we have Nalod who has transcended this and can lead us to enlightenment.

So TLDR: OKC opened the season as and still is a title favorite. There is not one team in the league with more talent. They are fantastic. A win would be great. Winning doesnt prove "we are here" nor does losing prove we dont belong. Its a long season.. its how you finish AND where.

I think I am a realistic fan. Yes, it is a long season. No- we do have a bench, just Thibs has decided that he doesn’t want to play any of the players there- no, I am not saying Kolek and Simms can go toe to toe with the starters from opposing teams- and yes, they may be one of the weaker benchs out there- but they are on the roster and can provide more minutes than they have.

OKC is literally shorthanded as well- missing Chet & Caruso.

If we don’t win, then yes- not a team that poses any threat of winning a championship barring unforeseen and unrealistic events (serious injuries to Celts/OKC/etc).

Maybe my assessment is poor, but that is where I stand.

I think the team can beat OKC - they were up big in the first half, proved we could score on them. They (OKC) may have started the game flat like we do so often.

It’s not just me that sees it this way - Mike Lupica literally wrote an article about more or less the same thing.

Are you watching the games these days? I mean just use your eyes man. The bench have been terrible. They are just coming around and as such getting more time/trust. McBride would have been a 30mpg bench player but he's been hurt an ineffective at times. It is what it is.

I do watch games, but I’ve missed seeing the bench players because they don’t!

I’m not advocating to start Kolek or even necessarily play him minutes- I just want to see our starters play minutes more in line with what other franchises- who btw, have just as bad a bench as ours.

I’ve also advocated starting Sims (before Prescious came back) and moving Bridges to the bench (when he was struggling) to help balance out the fire power a bit better.

And yes- Chimpmuk is putting up decent enough numbers, but the way he lets shots fly disturb me.

But- we’ve seen Kolek Hukporti all perform ok in stretches- not advocating for a 10 man rotation, just like I said - not riding Brunson, Kat, Bridges into the ground. They will get tired, they will get hurt - other franchises practice load management because they’ve seen the data.

what data? What team is load managing or resting players under 30? Or are not struggling with a career threatening injury like Embiid (and Nurse would STILL play him 40 minutes)

Minutes Per Game
1. Mikal Bridges • NYK 39.1
2. Josh Hart • NYK 37.7
3. De'Aaron Fox • SAC 37.3
4. Tyrese Maxey • PHI 37.3
5. Nikola Jokić • DEN 37.1
6. Jamal Murray • DEN 36.7
7. Devin Booker • PHO 36.6
8. OG Anunoby • NYK 36.5
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 36.4
10. Anthony Edwards • MIN 36.4
11. Jalen Johnson • ATL 36.3
12. Kevin Durant • PHO 36.0
13. Damian Lillard • MIL 36.0
14. Domantas Sabonis • SAC 35.9
15. Trae Young • ATL 35.7
16. Fred VanVleet • HOU 35.6
17. Jaylen Brown • BOS 35.6
18. Kyrie Irving • DAL 35.6
19. Cade Cunningham • DET 35.6
20. Keegan Murray • SAC 35.5

Thank you for providing the nicely formatted table that helps make my point.

Mikal, all by himself at 39.1.

Next closest- Hart at 37.7.

We have 3 in the top 8.

Denver just 2 in the top 10.

Sac maybe closest with 3 in the top 20.

Boston- just 2 in the top 20- with Jayson at 9 & Jaylen at 17.

We just have to agree to disagree because we’re on opposite sides of this debate.

And the data I am speaking about is the evidence that MPG correlates with season ending injuries. I had posted a link in another thread and there are some articles out there- but clearly teams have more/real data than anything on the web.

This is probably a better link for us to use for this debate- it has starters and the entire league minus some rows it holds back for payment:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/which-n...

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:We're 0-3 in what I'd call "big games" this season - season opener @ Boston, tournament game vs Atlanta and last game @ OKC.

We got to start showing and proving we can win these type of games!

I feel like the first Orlando game was a big game. With Franz they were 2nd or 3rd in the East and rolling. We destroyed them. Minnesota on the road was a big game. They were on a good streak defensively and it was obviously a big matchup based on the trade. And we kicked the crap out of them too. I think we have gotten up for these types of games. The opener was tough, but in retrospect we also had the Cavs in the bag early in the year too and then we blew it (similar to the OKC game).

Denver game too? Spurs are definitely not a top tier game but that Xmas effort seemed significant, with Wendy getting the unusual 40 minutes.

I think Lupica had a decent take in his article today - outside of beating up bad teams, we’re basically a 500 squad.

franco12 wrote:

martin wrote:

VDesai wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:We're 0-3 in what I'd call "big games" this season - season opener @ Boston, tournament game vs Atlanta and last game @ OKC.

We got to start showing and proving we can win these type of games!

I feel like the first Orlando game was a big game. With Franz they were 2nd or 3rd in the East and rolling. We destroyed them. Minnesota on the road was a big game. They were on a good streak defensively and it was obviously a big matchup based on the trade. And we kicked the crap out of them too. I think we have gotten up for these types of games. The opener was tough, but in retrospect we also had the Cavs in the bag early in the year too and then we blew it (similar to the OKC game).

Denver game too? Spurs are definitely not a top tier game but that Xmas effort seemed significant, with Wendy getting the unusual 40 minutes.

I think Lupica had a decent take in his article today - outside of beating up bad teams, we’re basically a 500 squad.

The whole contender this or that label is so silly right now. Even as good as Cle is it's Boston in the East until someone knocks them off in the postseason. Nothing else matters. If the Knicks can get there healthy they got a shot. A loss in the conf finals and another high seed is still a good season. You hope the core grows in chemistry. We are surely seeing that in real time.

I mean how many triple doubles would you have predicted for Josh Hart this time last year? He wasnt even a starter. All these minutes these guys have played together has sped up this process. The coaches have literally said this.

Its basketball. You let them play until they are tired. Phili just lost a ROY candidate for the year. Stuff happens. Minute police can cry from the mountain tops but the players dont care, Thibs doesnt care, Leon doesnt care and most importantly fishmike doesnt care.

This January stretch are some tough games, but we don't have to board in airplane in weeks.

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

franco12 wrote:OKC brings in a one game losing streak, courtesy of the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Do I hear 2?

Knicks played them tough for a half and then lost steam amid an abundance of starter minutes and tired legs.

This is a must win, if you are going to argue this is a championship caliber roster/coach.

Its one game of 82. Still blaming Thibs for everyone being hurt end of the year? OKC is 13-4 on the road. But if we don't win we are not a serious team? Y'all are funny fans.

We have literally no bench. McBride is hurt and not the same player as last year. When he's effective he plays more. Precious just coming back. Shamet just coming back. When Thibs played Sims too much fans people thought he had Thib's nudes or something... then when he plays KAT 40 minutes it's same old Thibs... never uses his bench.

It's literally the same circle jerk with this fan base. Thank god we have Nalod who has transcended this and can lead us to enlightenment.

So TLDR: OKC opened the season as and still is a title favorite. There is not one team in the league with more talent. They are fantastic. A win would be great. Winning doesnt prove "we are here" nor does losing prove we dont belong. Its a long season.. its how you finish AND where.

I think I am a realistic fan. Yes, it is a long season. No- we do have a bench, just Thibs has decided that he doesn’t want to play any of the players there- no, I am not saying Kolek and Simms can go toe to toe with the starters from opposing teams- and yes, they may be one of the weaker benchs out there- but they are on the roster and can provide more minutes than they have.

OKC is literally shorthanded as well- missing Chet & Caruso.

If we don’t win, then yes- not a team that poses any threat of winning a championship barring unforeseen and unrealistic events (serious injuries to Celts/OKC/etc).

Maybe my assessment is poor, but that is where I stand.

I think the team can beat OKC - they were up big in the first half, proved we could score on them. They (OKC) may have started the game flat like we do so often.

It’s not just me that sees it this way - Mike Lupica literally wrote an article about more or less the same thing.

Are you watching the games these days? I mean just use your eyes man. The bench have been terrible. They are just coming around and as such getting more time/trust. McBride would have been a 30mpg bench player but he's been hurt an ineffective at times. It is what it is.

I do watch games, but I’ve missed seeing the bench players because they don’t!

I’m not advocating to start Kolek or even necessarily play him minutes- I just want to see our starters play minutes more in line with what other franchises- who btw, have just as bad a bench as ours.

I’ve also advocated starting Sims (before Prescious came back) and moving Bridges to the bench (when he was struggling) to help balance out the fire power a bit better.

And yes- Chimpmuk is putting up decent enough numbers, but the way he lets shots fly disturb me.

But- we’ve seen Kolek Hukporti all perform ok in stretches- not advocating for a 10 man rotation, just like I said - not riding Brunson, Kat, Bridges into the ground. They will get tired, they will get hurt - other franchises practice load management because they’ve seen the data.

what data? What team is load managing or resting players under 30? Or are not struggling with a career threatening injury like Embiid (and Nurse would STILL play him 40 minutes)

Minutes Per Game
1. Mikal Bridges • NYK 39.1
2. Josh Hart • NYK 37.7
3. De'Aaron Fox • SAC 37.3
4. Tyrese Maxey • PHI 37.3
5. Nikola Jokić • DEN 37.1
6. Jamal Murray • DEN 36.7
7. Devin Booker • PHO 36.6
8. OG Anunoby • NYK 36.5
9. Jayson Tatum • BOS 36.4
10. Anthony Edwards • MIN 36.4
11. Jalen Johnson • ATL 36.3
12. Kevin Durant • PHO 36.0
13. Damian Lillard • MIL 36.0
14. Domantas Sabonis • SAC 35.9
15. Trae Young • ATL 35.7
16. Fred VanVleet • HOU 35.6
17. Jaylen Brown • BOS 35.6
18. Kyrie Irving • DAL 35.6
19. Cade Cunningham • DET 35.6
20. Keegan Murray • SAC 35.5

Thank you for providing the nicely formatted table that helps make my point.

Mikal, all by himself at 39.1.

Next closest- Hart at 37.7.

We have 3 in the top 8.

Denver just 2 in the top 10.

Sac maybe closest with 3 in the top 20.

Boston- just 2 in the top 20- with Jayson at 9 & Jaylen at 17.

We just have to agree to disagree because we’re on opposite sides of this debate.

And the data I am speaking about is the evidence that MPG correlates with season ending injuries. I had posted a link in another thread and there are some articles out there- but clearly teams have more/real data than anything on the web.

This is probably a better link for us to use for this debate- it has starters and the entire league minus some rows it holds back for payment:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/which-n...

Wins matter. They are not playing MAtt Ryan or Jacob Toppin. And I still dont see any data for injuries to mpg.

OG needs a rest. He's got the luxury of taking offensive plays off but he gassed. Precious will help but is not a good fit with Sims. As for Josh and Mikal they can play 48 if they want.

That being said lets not pretend otherwise... OKC is better. They are a -4.5 favorite on the road in MSG.

This reminds me of the 90s when the Knicks were really good like 50+ wins but beating Chi and their 60 win+ teams was always an accomplishment.

Love the Knicks path and everything they have done but OKC is in the lord have mercy zone in terms of talent/assets and now they ready

fishmike wrote:I got a really simple key to this game... we need to use KAT to pull IHart out of the paint and facilitate offense to cutters.

That being said lets not pretend otherwise... OKC is better. They are a -4.5 favorite on the road in MSG.

This reminds me of the 90s when the Knicks were really good like 50+ wins but beating Chi and their 60 win+ teams was always an accomplishment.

Love the Knicks path and everything they have done but OKC is in the lord have mercy zone in terms of talent/assets and now they ready

I agree with everything you just said- and it's depressing because Leon Rose has gone all in- trade most of our draft capital away, maxed out the cap- and we are 2nd tier, runner up to the runner ups.

In hindsight, maybe not trading for Bridges- keeping our picks would have been the better long term move.

But - I do like this team, they are fun, they are competitive and it's the best roster we've had in ages- probably better than the Ewing era knick rosters- certainly better than anything with Melo.

fishmike wrote:I got a really simple key to this game... we need to use KAT to pull IHart out of the paint and facilitate offense to cutters.

That being said lets not pretend otherwise... OKC is better. They are a -4.5 favorite on the road in MSG.

This reminds me of the 90s when the Knicks were really good like 50+ wins but beating Chi and their 60 win+ teams was always an accomplishment.

Love the Knicks path and everything they have done but OKC is in the lord have mercy zone in terms of talent/assets and now they ready

But when we we ran our offense the way its supposed to be won we overwhelmed them. Spacing, 3's, let KAT dominate. Hartenstein won't even guard KAT. He guarded Hart the whole game. KAT guarded by Jalen Williams. Hart not gonna pull away Hartenstein with his shooting so it has to be dribble creation that breaks him down enough to draw an extra defender, then you have to hit shots. And KAT needs to get good position if he has a 7 inch height advantage and not get stuck in foul trouble

franco12 wrote:

fishmike wrote:I got a really simple key to this game... we need to use KAT to pull IHart out of the paint and facilitate offense to cutters.

That being said lets not pretend otherwise... OKC is better. They are a -4.5 favorite on the road in MSG.

This reminds me of the 90s when the Knicks were really good like 50+ wins but beating Chi and their 60 win+ teams was always an accomplishment.

Love the Knicks path and everything they have done but OKC is in the lord have mercy zone in terms of talent/assets and now they ready

I agree with everything you just said- and it's depressing because Leon Rose has gone all in- trade most of our draft capital away, maxed out the cap- and we are 2nd tier, runner up to the runner ups.

In hindsight, maybe not trading for Bridges- keeping our picks would have been the better long term move.

But - I do like this team, they are fun, they are competitive and it's the best roster we've had in ages- probably better than the Ewing era knick rosters- certainly better than anything with Melo.

There are no more Jordan Bulls... all those top teams have puncher's chance. If Cle had not won every game they played this year Knicks would be 3rd. You have a very negative perspective considering where most view the team you follow

TEAM
ODDS
Boston Celtics
+200
Oklahoma City Thunder
+290
Cleveland Cavaliers
+825
New York Knicks
+1100
Dallas Mavericks
+1700
Denver Nuggets
+1700
Milwaukee Bucks
+2500
Minnesota Timberwolves
+2500
Memphis Grizzlies
+2800
Golden State Warriors
+3000
Houston Rockets
+3000
Los Angeles Lakers
+3000
LA Clippers
+4000
Orlando Magic
+4000
Philadelphia 76ers
+4000

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