franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:Knicks are wildly different with a real bench. Mitch/Precious/Sham/Kolek held it down and did some things.
Don't forget Wright.
And it took injuries, some, to force Thibs hand to actually play Kolek.
Where was Kolek supposed to play? Payne has played very role in his role and you cannot play them together. Kolek over Shamet wouldn't work either cause we need someone off the bench who can shoot and defend some wings. I don't get where and over who you want Kolek to play. He's a second round rookie. His time will come.
Yes. Everything you said is true. I'm not saying Kolek should be averaging 20 minutes a night or that he should have played every game.
But, we've had our shares of blowouts or games where the starters have struggled running the offense. It would not have been terrible for Kolek to have gotten a wee bit more time until now.
And honestly, outside of a few games, Shamet has been a disaster. Would Dadiet have been that much worse?
At what cost? Dadiet seems to be doing just fine putting in the GLeague work.
Cost? I mean, who knows, maybe if Dadiet had gotten all the minutes Shamet got, he would be better right now than Shamet - that is a mighty low bar.
I don't believe that, but I look at other teams and they play guys big minutes who are as young as Dadiet.
Didn't we talk about Ryan Dunn? I mean, Denver picked him 3 spots after Dadiet and he has played 67 games, playing 18 mins per. He is putting up better #s than Shamet- again, super low bar.
And are you talking about lost victories? Because again, we've had our share of stinkers and the starters are all playing high 30 minutes, up to 40.
You really don't want to develop young players, right? Your idea is to have Dadiet ready for garbage time? That's how you envision development? We are talking about 3+ games over the past 2 months that may or may not coincide with a GLeague opportunity? To play upwards of 5-10 garbage minutes?
Cause that's the reality, right? You do understand that?
Do you think that is worthwhile or makes sense?
Couple things and I think you are misunderstanding me.
I tend to think NBA players can learn how to swim by being tossed into the deep end.
Shamet has been horrible, and if you went back in time, removed him from the roster, and hypnotized Thibs to play Dadiet, would our situation be worse? Or might we have gotten Dadiet to develop by trial by fire?
No they usually do not, especially when they are not ready physically. It’s why you rarely see rookies in playoff lineups. You aren’t really operating in reality land, just hope and pray that something sticks to the wall with a side of Shamet to distract from the real guts of it.
Trial by fire is not a method of development unless you have the right opportunity; typically that’s a physically mature player with elite talent in a well defined role that he and team are both ready for. A playoff team that needs to gel and learn how to work together is not it.
Like Ryan Dunn on Denver? with 47 wins. Ryan Dunn 67 games, 18.1 minutes at age 22.
Or Jaylen Wells - 74 games for Memphis 25 minutes and age 21.
Why is it that Thibs can do no wrong.
The record is outstanding, but he is not perfect.
If we can't offer criticism, I guess it's just Trumpland for us!
Dadiet is near youngest in league and not physically the same as someone like Dunn. Why you think they should be treated similarly? Dunn has like 1 thing going for him that he was ready to do.
Dadiet is 19. He is not yet dominating the GLeague. Why do you think scrap minutes are better when the rest of the rotation is also trying to learn how to work?
By
I’m not saying Thibs could do no wrong, you are. I’m saying there are better options and other things to consider and you have promptly ignored them. Why?
Did the same route negatively affect Deuce or did he clean up what he needed to do to ultimately succeed?
Thibs literally has nothing to do with what I am saying.
How can we tell about Deuce? We would have to run an experiment involving a multi-verse where in one, Duece is tossed out day 1.
Zaccharie Risacher is 19 and playing big minutes.
I am not arguing Thibs should have played Dadiet - my point is Shamet has been pretty rough and Dadiet could have produced similar production with the upside that maybe he reaches his peak development sooner. Again, you learn by doing not watching.
yeah lets use the #1 pick on a sub .500 team as an example. There's some nuances for ya
I think Franco's thought experiment is making us all a bit dumber
martin wrote:Ugh CLE on a back to back
Final games are close to not mattering. We are looking at warmups for Brunson and rest for everyone else last few games IMO. Prob resting guys B2Bs as well.
franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:martin wrote:franco12 wrote:SergioNYK wrote:franco12 wrote:fishmike wrote:Knicks are wildly different with a real bench. Mitch/Precious/Sham/Kolek held it down and did some things.
Don't forget Wright.
And it took injuries, some, to force Thibs hand to actually play Kolek.
Where was Kolek supposed to play? Payne has played very role in his role and you cannot play them together. Kolek over Shamet wouldn't work either cause we need someone off the bench who can shoot and defend some wings. I don't get where and over who you want Kolek to play. He's a second round rookie. His time will come.
Yes. Everything you said is true. I'm not saying Kolek should be averaging 20 minutes a night or that he should have played every game.
But, we've had our shares of blowouts or games where the starters have struggled running the offense. It would not have been terrible for Kolek to have gotten a wee bit more time until now.
And honestly, outside of a few games, Shamet has been a disaster. Would Dadiet have been that much worse?
At what cost? Dadiet seems to be doing just fine putting in the GLeague work.
Cost? I mean, who knows, maybe if Dadiet had gotten all the minutes Shamet got, he would be better right now than Shamet - that is a mighty low bar.
I don't believe that, but I look at other teams and they play guys big minutes who are as young as Dadiet.
Didn't we talk about Ryan Dunn? I mean, Denver picked him 3 spots after Dadiet and he has played 67 games, playing 18 mins per. He is putting up better #s than Shamet- again, super low bar.
And are you talking about lost victories? Because again, we've had our share of stinkers and the starters are all playing high 30 minutes, up to 40.
You really don't want to develop young players, right? Your idea is to have Dadiet ready for garbage time? That's how you envision development? We are talking about 3+ games over the past 2 months that may or may not coincide with a GLeague opportunity? To play upwards of 5-10 garbage minutes?
Cause that's the reality, right? You do understand that?
Do you think that is worthwhile or makes sense?
Couple things and I think you are misunderstanding me.
I tend to think NBA players can learn how to swim by being tossed into the deep end.
Shamet has been horrible, and if you went back in time, removed him from the roster, and hypnotized Thibs to play Dadiet, would our situation be worse? Or might we have gotten Dadiet to develop by trial by fire?
No they usually do not, especially when they are not ready physically. It’s why you rarely see rookies in playoff lineups. You aren’t really operating in reality land, just hope and pray that something sticks to the wall with a side of Shamet to distract from the real guts of it.
Trial by fire is not a method of development unless you have the right opportunity; typically that’s a physically mature player with elite talent in a well defined role that he and team are both ready for. A playoff team that needs to gel and learn how to work together is not it.
Like Ryan Dunn on Denver? with 47 wins. Ryan Dunn 67 games, 18.1 minutes at age 22.
Or Jaylen Wells - 74 games for Memphis 25 minutes and age 21.
Why is it that Thibs can do no wrong.
The record is outstanding, but he is not perfect.
If we can't offer criticism, I guess it's just Trumpland for us!
Dadiet is near youngest in league and not physically the same as someone like Dunn. Why you think they should be treated similarly? Dunn has like 1 thing going for him that he was ready to do.
Dadiet is 19. He is not yet dominating the GLeague. Why do you think scrap minutes are better when the rest of the rotation is also trying to learn how to work?
By
I’m not saying Thibs could do no wrong, you are. I’m saying there are better options and other things to consider and you have promptly ignored them. Why?
Did the same route negatively affect Deuce or did he clean up what he needed to do to ultimately succeed?
Thibs literally has nothing to do with what I am saying.
How can we tell about Deuce? We would have to run an experiment involving a multi-verse where in one, Duece is tossed out day 1.
Zaccharie Risacher is 19 and playing big minutes.
I am not arguing Thibs should have played Dadiet - my point is Shamet has been pretty rough and Dadiet could have produced similar production with the upside that maybe he reaches his peak development sooner. Again, you learn by doing not watching.
This is not sound reasoning and it shouldn’t take someone else to point out the difference between the #1 pick overall pick on a team that is playing below .500 ball.
Bush league posting my man, you better than that.
