Knicks · Playoff Game Thread: Game 5 New York @ Boston, 7:00 pm, May 14 (page 14)
Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:We played a bad game.
Celtics played a really good one.
It happens.It's not just about losing. When they play badly they don't look like a good team being beat, they look like they don't belong. The turnovers, not being able to even get shots (forget about making them) and not being able to counter Luke Fucking Kornet looking like Mutombo out there. They looked awful.
Tatum goes out and every other Celtic stepped up. JB fouled out and it was hopeless.
TBF this is how the Celtics win when they win. Their style of play leads to blowouts. It doesn’t lead to winning tight games. Knicks always win tight games when they win. So I’m not overreacting to a blowout. Knicks haven’t blown a team out in months it seems. Boston shoots millions of 3s and when they are hot this is how the game goes. Next game will be a completely different game.
But game 6, like game 4, is the game WE should win. And I'm confident we do.
DLeethal wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:We played a bad game.
Celtics played a really good one.
It happens.It's not just about losing. When they play badly they don't look like a good team being beat, they look like they don't belong. The turnovers, not being able to even get shots (forget about making them) and not being able to counter Luke Fucking Kornet looking like Mutombo out there. They looked awful.
Tatum goes out and every other Celtic stepped up. JB fouled out and it was hopeless.TBF this is how the Celtics win when they win. Their style of play leads to blowouts. It doesn’t lead to winning tight games. Knicks always win tight games when they win. So I’m not overreacting to a blowout. Knicks haven’t blown a team out in months it seems. Boston shoots millions of 3s and when they are hot this is how the game goes. Next game will be a completely different game.
Yes Celtics are a variance team. If you shoot 45-50 3's a game you're gonna swing more wildly on shooting percentages and nights when you're hot are gonna be 20-25 pt separation. We've also seen that Boston lets 20 pt leads evaporate quite easily with that style of play, so you almost need to discount that point margin.
VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:We played a bad game.
Celtics played a really good one.
It happens.It's not just about losing. When they play badly they don't look like a good team being beat, they look like they don't belong. The turnovers, not being able to even get shots (forget about making them) and not being able to counter Luke Fucking Kornet looking like Mutombo out there. They looked awful.
Tatum goes out and every other Celtic stepped up. JB fouled out and it was hopeless.TBF this is how the Celtics win when they win. Their style of play leads to blowouts. It doesn’t lead to winning tight games. Knicks always win tight games when they win. So I’m not overreacting to a blowout. Knicks haven’t blown a team out in months it seems. Boston shoots millions of 3s and when they are hot this is how the game goes. Next game will be a completely different game.
Yes Celtics are a variance team. If you shoot 45-50 3's a game you're gonna swing more wildly on shooting percentages and nights when you're hot are gonna be 20-25 pt separation. We've also seen that Boston lets 20 pt leads evaporate quite easily with that style of play, so you almost need to discount that point margin.
Yea but last night they didn’t really let up from 3. White is shooting 70% from 3 on high volume last 2 games and Brown had the best all around game of the playoffs. Hauser Pritchard and Horford were all hot. That variance hopefully comes into play next game as they come down to earth a bit. Law of averages will usually win out.
DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:We played a bad game.
Celtics played a really good one.
It happens.It's not just about losing. When they play badly they don't look like a good team being beat, they look like they don't belong. The turnovers, not being able to even get shots (forget about making them) and not being able to counter Luke Fucking Kornet looking like Mutombo out there. They looked awful.
Tatum goes out and every other Celtic stepped up. JB fouled out and it was hopeless.TBF this is how the Celtics win when they win. Their style of play leads to blowouts. It doesn’t lead to winning tight games. Knicks always win tight games when they win. So I’m not overreacting to a blowout. Knicks haven’t blown a team out in months it seems. Boston shoots millions of 3s and when they are hot this is how the game goes. Next game will be a completely different game.
Yes Celtics are a variance team. If you shoot 45-50 3's a game you're gonna swing more wildly on shooting percentages and nights when you're hot are gonna be 20-25 pt separation. We've also seen that Boston lets 20 pt leads evaporate quite easily with that style of play, so you almost need to discount that point margin.
Yea but last night they didn’t really let up from 3. White is shooting 70% from 3 on high volume last 2 games and Brown had the best all around game of the playoffs. Hauser Pritchard and Horford were all hot. That variance hopefully comes into play next game as they come down to earth a bit. Law of averages will usually win out.
Yes they were hot last night. We showed in game 5 that they are beatable even when hitting a normal % like 38%. They were hot early and came down to earth late. We didn't do a great job on switches and getting up on the shooters. I think without Tatum we weren't sure how to defend Brown. At this point we need OG on Brown and have him go under. I don't think Brown wants to take pull up 3's off the bounce. Celtics also were more aggressive playing drive and kick and we overplayed that, leaving too many shooters open on rotation. Whoever's on White has to have serious discipline. Celtics have worked us the same way all year. Do everything they can to get Brunson or KAT switched onto Brown or Tatum. Tatum will work an ISO or a pullup, but Brown was doing a good job of being aggressive on his drives and finding open shooters. I'm not gonna blame the refs, but they opened up the game when they called every touch foul on Brunson guarding Brown in the third. It was lights out after that. Switching that offensive foul elbow call on Brown to a foul on Brunson shifted the momentum of the game entirely.
I am going to trust the flow of the series and chalk that up to a performance that should have been expected. And IMO we should expect the Knicks to come out and win game 6 at home to close it out. That would be the natural flow of a series like this, similar to what we saw in DET and Philly last season during similarly contested series.
VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:VDesai wrote:DLeethal wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:We played a bad game.
Celtics played a really good one.
It happens.It's not just about losing. When they play badly they don't look like a good team being beat, they look like they don't belong. The turnovers, not being able to even get shots (forget about making them) and not being able to counter Luke Fucking Kornet looking like Mutombo out there. They looked awful.
Tatum goes out and every other Celtic stepped up. JB fouled out and it was hopeless.TBF this is how the Celtics win when they win. Their style of play leads to blowouts. It doesn’t lead to winning tight games. Knicks always win tight games when they win. So I’m not overreacting to a blowout. Knicks haven’t blown a team out in months it seems. Boston shoots millions of 3s and when they are hot this is how the game goes. Next game will be a completely different game.
Yes Celtics are a variance team. If you shoot 45-50 3's a game you're gonna swing more wildly on shooting percentages and nights when you're hot are gonna be 20-25 pt separation. We've also seen that Boston lets 20 pt leads evaporate quite easily with that style of play, so you almost need to discount that point margin.
Yea but last night they didn’t really let up from 3. White is shooting 70% from 3 on high volume last 2 games and Brown had the best all around game of the playoffs. Hauser Pritchard and Horford were all hot. That variance hopefully comes into play next game as they come down to earth a bit. Law of averages will usually win out.
Yes they were hot last night. We showed in game 5 that they are beatable even when hitting a normal % like 38%. They were hot early and came down to earth late. We didn't do a great job on switches and getting up on the shooters. I think without Tatum we weren't sure how to defend Brown. At this point we need OG on Brown and have him go under. I don't think Brown wants to take pull up 3's off the bounce. Celtics also were more aggressive playing drive and kick and we overplayed that, leaving too many shooters open on rotation. Whoever's on White has to have serious discipline. Celtics have worked us the same way all year. Do everything they can to get Brunson or KAT switched onto Brown or Tatum. Tatum will work an ISO or a pullup, but Brown was doing a good job of being aggressive on his drives and finding open shooters. I'm not gonna blame the refs, but they opened up the game when they called every touch foul on Brunson guarding Brown in the third. It was lights out after that. Switching that offensive foul elbow call on Brown to a foul on Brunson shifted the momentum of the game entirely.
100% agree, we guarded them as if they still had Tatum. Switched and tried to lull into a pull up iso 3. Instead they attacked the switch and flipped the ball around like crazy. Now Thibs needs to scheme to this new version of Boston knowing how they will attack us. I think he will, if he's done anything very well these playoffs it's been defensive scheming.
As good as Brown was hard to see him replicating that effort again.
I'm not gonna blame the refs either, Towns is a complete moron with his fouls and Brunson was not smart either. When you are frantically playing in rotation you end up fouling. And when you get severely outplayed going into blaming refs is just bush league stuff from a fan perspective.
Knicksfan wrote:Chandler wrote:Never before and never again. Big Mitch was the best FT shooter for either team and Hart was the best three ballerVery disjoint and frustrating. I know we criticize og and Mikal on nights like this but there was no flow. That’s not their fault
Time to regroup, learn and adjust
Thing is, what do we have to learn? This team learned about offense for the majority of the season and the many 30+ assists games show it. But for reasons I don’t understand, they chose to play with no offense from time to time, especially now in the playoffs. This team is the most unpredictable and most frustrating team I have seen.
Boston fans saying the same things in second half of games 1 and 2 and for game 4.
Collectively, the Knicks are not a polished team at ALL. Mitch is new for the team. Cam has shat the bed in the second round. KAT is in foul trouble pretty much every game.
Team got a lot of growing to do despite the 30+ assist games against, mostly likely, non playoff teams.
Recall that the Knicks lost all their games to the 3 top teams (and were probably 50-50 against the next 3) and being up 3-2 against Boston is really a giant step forward.
Despite the really bad intermittent play (nearly every game), this is actually pretty darn good IMHO
Knicksfan wrote:Panos wrote:DuckVader wrote:Bridges reverts to the mean. OG is playing crap. No rhythm for KAT. Brunson MIA and 5 fouls. Only Mitch seems useful.Game 6 here we come!
OG looked like a G Leaguer today.
He really represents us so well: sometimes he looks like an unbeatable star, others he is nowhere to be found. He is really frustrating sometimes!
You all are missing the bigger picture: he misses his sideline Misses.
Disappointed, but not too surprised it played out that way. Boston on the ropes, at home, and played like a team focused on making up for the injured superstar.
Now it's our turn to counter punch and put this thing to bed. We need our stars to play like stars, and we need our wings to not be complete liabilities shooting the ball (props to Josh last night on his 5 threes!)
We had some questionable whistles last night, but double downed with plenty of dumb fouls to compound the issue. Play smarter. Focus on the task. And please don't give us a heart attack while doing it.
DLeethal wrote:I was gonna say I am slightly concerned about OG because of the hammy strain he had followed by an awful performance on both ends.
agreed.
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DLeethal wrote:I was gonna say I am slightly concerned about OG because of the hammy strain he had followed by an awful performance on both ends.
That has crossed my mind. He has not been to yoga class this week.
Sometimes he might be missing some explosiveness. He had two jump shots in one possession both short hitting front of the rim.
I guess Brunson is hands off for now but he was not captain crunch. Not for a lack of effort but the fouling was not cool. He does not show much but perhaps frustration. Kat is almost always frustrated.
First half was good for both teams. The most even back and forth of the series thus far.
As said, second half is how they win. Good defense and quick barrage of 3's.
VDesai wrote:Chandler wrote:VDesai wrote:I think the two things were at work.Boston are the champs, and even though they are down their best man, they have other all star level players and pride. That was a team playing like they weren't going down without a fight. White, Brown etc. making hustle plays. Kornet playing the 2nd half instead of KP was a game changer.
The Knicks were....the Knicks. They have shown this uneven effort ALL YEAR. Every time things look up, they temper our expectations with a complete shit show. They did the exact same thing last round - had a team on the ropes and let them off a bit. When we acquired Karl Anthony Towns he came with a reputation...world class talent, unpredictable results, silliness....we're getting it all. Next game he'll show you why he's one of the most unstoppable players in the league at times too. I think this was an easy one to predict unfortunately.
I also feel pretty confident we win game 6, b/c bouncing back from losses is also a pretty consistent trait.
I don’t have the stat handy but the celts actually had a pretty crazy winning % WITHOUT Tatum
Personally I think it takes at least one year to see full potential of star acquisitions as guys develop the best way to gel. I’m still very frustrate w the way we’re using/misusing KAT on offense. His best skills are shooting and passing and we’re deploying him like a run of the mill banger. It’s like Thibs and/or Brunson don’t know how to leverage his talents. I say that realizing that he’s had a string of 20/10 games but the 20 was largely as a banger
KAT's 3 or 4 best seasons - and all the years he averaged over 12 boards, have come under Thibs. I don't think there's a coach in the league that maximizes KAT more than Thibs.
KAT is almost 30 years old and has been in the league for 11 seasons. He is a wonderful talent, but a player prone to silliness with very clear limitations and uneven results. But look, he made the Western Conference finals and is 1 win short of the Eastern Conference finals. You can win with him. Don't expect it to be smooth sailing though!
what you say makes sense
but having him play outside more also makes sense. His stretch 5 capabilities opens things up. I still think we're not close to maximizing his potential contribution
VDesai wrote:Chandler wrote:VDesai wrote:I think the two things were at work.Boston are the champs, and even though they are down their best man, they have other all star level players and pride. That was a team playing like they weren't going down without a fight. White, Brown etc. making hustle plays. Kornet playing the 2nd half instead of KP was a game changer.
The Knicks were....the Knicks. They have shown this uneven effort ALL YEAR. Every time things look up, they temper our expectations with a complete shit show. They did the exact same thing last round - had a team on the ropes and let them off a bit. When we acquired Karl Anthony Towns he came with a reputation...world class talent, unpredictable results, silliness....we're getting it all. Next game he'll show you why he's one of the most unstoppable players in the league at times too. I think this was an easy one to predict unfortunately.
I also feel pretty confident we win game 6, b/c bouncing back from losses is also a pretty consistent trait.
I don’t have the stat handy but the celts actually had a pretty crazy winning % WITHOUT Tatum
Personally I think it takes at least one year to see full potential of star acquisitions as guys develop the best way to gel. I’m still very frustrate w the way we’re using/misusing KAT on offense. His best skills are shooting and passing and we’re deploying him like a run of the mill banger. It’s like Thibs and/or Brunson don’t know how to leverage his talents. I say that realizing that he’s had a string of 20/10 games but the 20 was largely as a banger
The whole "Ewing Theory," exists for a reason, but good winning teams can withstand the losses of their stars because they develop winning habits and their secondary stars know how to step up. It's not really a sustainable thing, but we have seen time and again teams do some good things in the absence of their stars. Even our squad did fairly well playing without Brunson this year. We dug in and got pretty damn far without Randle last year. Teams that are well coached with winning culture and habits don't go down very simply.
agree this is the number one reason why I am urging people not to count their chickens before they hatch. Celts have quality players and have already demonstrated an ability to win without Tatum
I'm not sure I know what Ewing Theory is, but if it means team will peform without star, then I have my doubts. I think Denver is lost without Joker, and OKC is questionable without SGA
DLeethal wrote:Panos wrote:Nalod wrote:We played a bad game.
Celtics played a really good one.
It happens.It's not just about losing. When they play badly they don't look like a good team being beat, they look like they don't belong. The turnovers, not being able to even get shots (forget about making them) and not being able to counter Luke Fucking Kornet looking like Mutombo out there. They looked awful.
Tatum goes out and every other Celtic stepped up. JB fouled out and it was hopeless.TBF this is how the Celtics win when they win. Their style of play leads to blowouts. It doesn’t lead to winning tight games. Knicks always win tight games when they win. So I’m not overreacting to a blowout. Knicks haven’t blown a team out in months it seems. Boston shoots millions of 3s and when they are hot this is how the game goes. Next game will be a completely different game.
I agree with this but want to add the footnote. Celts shot 18 FTs in third quarter (game was tied before hand). JB 5 fouls in that quarter. Knicks were in penalty with 9 minutes left in that quarter
that's a serious fn. And no I don't think the Knicks were playing any more aggressive than the Celts. Whistles were lopsided. Celts play KAT w a smaller player (and often two) and for some reasons the refs think small guys can't foul big guys
that quarter was pivotal
So yes the Celts won, and did what they do, and needed to do, but it's difficult to swallow with the above.
Just call the game consistently
DLeethal wrote:I was gonna say I am slightly concerned about OG because of the hammy strain he had followed by an awful performance on both ends.
Yeah that’s gonna be an issue going forward.