Knicks · Game Thread: ECF Game 4 @ Pacers 8PM TNT (page 24)
Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.
DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.
and even then, we held Hali to like 16ppg on 40% shooting in games 2 & 3. Unfortunate this series will always have an * on it because we literally gave away game 1 in such a way like never before.
Ultimately this has been a very close series, but we've also been healthy and that's what worries me, will this team ever get a healthy playoff run again?
houston20 wrote:Pacers had pressure to win game 4 they couldn’t have this series tied 2to2 . The pressure isn’t on the pacers to win game 5 it’s on the knicks. The knicks just have to win game 5 to extend the series and deal with the other stuff later.
Believe pressure was on both teams to win.
Knicks handled the pressure by playing an individual type of hero ball and Pacers played a team game of moving the ball for the most part.
Pressure will obviously be on the Knicks in Game 5.
However, there will be a huge shift in game 6 to the Pacers.
Since the Pacers will NOT want it going to a game 7 at MSG
and so many of those TO's were completely unforced. IND, and Hali just did a great job protecting the ball and played a much cleaner game.
VDesai wrote:Its not just out turnovers, but we're also not creating any. We need to get more physical on Haliburton. He has multiple feet of space and the comfort to do what he wants out there. We played our best ball last night when Wright was in getting deflections.
agreed. but even without creating them, there were so many big instances where we were right there within a few points up or down and we just made a silly unforced TO and didn't even get a shot off.
Was very frustrating to watch. Then early 4th all those fouls called on us were extremely frustrating as well and stopped us from creating more momentum .
nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
I think we adjusted to beat Boston, but we're not countering what the Pacers do. They want to wear you down, they want to play faster than you, they want to keep you moving. Its like we played rope a dope all year to beat Boston and then haven't been able to adjust to the fact that we're playing a different team.
Still, to lose 3 at home in this series would be an embarrassment. I think we find a way to win game 5. We never know what to expect from this team, but I don't think they go down with a whimper at home in game 5. From there, you have to find a way to win another on the road and put yourself in a position to host game 7. It absolutely is not impossible...but its also unlikely. But the series has had some close games. We had one of the worst collapses in sports history to not be tied right now. It seems far fetched after last night, but we can win games in this series and keep the season going.
VDesai wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
I think we adjusted to beat Boston, but we're not countering what the Pacers do. They want to wear you down, they want to play faster than you, they want to keep you moving. Its like we played rope a dope all year to beat Boston and then haven't been able to adjust to the fact that we're playing a different team.
Still, to lose 3 at home in this series would be an embarrassment. I think we find a way to win game 5. We never know what to expect from this team, but I don't think they go down with a whimper at home in game 5. From there, you have to find a way to win another on the road and put yourself in a position to host game 7. It absolutely is not impossible...but its also unlikely. But the series has had some close games. We had one of the worst collapses in sports history to not be tied right now. It seems far fetched after last night, but we can win games in this series and keep the season going.
spot on. I feel weirdly confident despite being down 3-1.
I cant see us losing 3 straight at home.
I think game 6 is going to happen and I think it will be an absolute dogfight and we'll have a chance to win it and force what would be a bonkers g7 at MSG.
VDesai wrote:Brunson is the reason we are here in the first place. "Here," meaning not just the conference finals, but contention. People are mad, but is causing them to misunderstand something fundamental.This coach has seen Brunson guarded this way for 2 yrs now vs. Indy and the Pistons did it too. The counter is having another PG to provide help against the press and then push tempo. Instead if you let Brunson get swallowed and trapped the whole game and fouled up the floor, he will wear down. He is getting "his," but with turnovers and less efficiency because we arent calling a different number. With Hartenstein last year, he had a play partner and ball mover off the trap. We dont have that on the team right now.
But the these of this team starts with Brunson. If you are ready to move off, welcome to the lottery. BTW Brooklyn has all your picks. His contract is no albatross. He is gonna age just fine too - his game is built on smarts, touch, footwork. We can't ask him to figure out virtually every thing - I think we are failing him by not countering the press and trap with the right strategy.
100%. We are playing right into the pacers hands letting them get max value out of their best defender and scheme
Carlisle is smart too. Last night for example I was left w the impression that nesmith wasn’t bumping as much, just slowing things down to give us a shorter clock more time for pacers to get organized My suspicion is Carlisle feared refs might start calling that. That said I am expecting the bumping to come back next game or two
Same w hack a Mitch. He’ll do that selectively
VDesai wrote:Taking Hart off the floor is not the best way to play the trap. Mitch has not been effective starting.I would start Deuce or Wright. Then you have a defender on Hali and a second PG level ballhandler. Add Hart back and you have a third playmaker and a transition player. Yes Hart made bad passes last night, but he got you here playing this role. I really think this is how you beat the way Indy is playing you.
Interesting thought but I don’t agree. We need size on pascal. He abuses smaller players and has had success against og even
We do need to take care of the ball. We lost because of turnovers. Whether that’s because of lost focus or pacers play I don’t know. My guess is focus as exemplified by missed FT too. But last night we did everything better except take care of the ball.
We lost that game
nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.
and even then, we held Hali to like 16ppg on 40% shooting in games 2 & 3. Unfortunate this series will always have an * on it because we literally gave away game 1 in such a way like never before.
Ultimately this has been a very close series, but we've also been healthy and that's what worries me, will this team ever get a healthy playoff run again?
Game 1 was the only game we’ve played well IMO. Even winning via another 12 minute burst in game 3 in what was maybe the worst we played all series for the first 3Q wasn’t impressive. Indy won pretty easily the other 2 despite game 2 being close after we made a desperate push and hit some 3s late. They basically held 10 pt leads in games 2 and 4 during the critical junctures.
Bridges 17pg on 43/40 shooting 12 TO and a -33
Brunson 33pg on 48/31 shooting 16TO and a -26
Hart. 8pg on 53/27 shooting 9TO and a -10
OG. 170g on 48/33 shooting 6TO and a -7
KAT 25pg on 52/45 shooting 10TO and a -2
MR 5pg 30 rebounds and a -13. Was +7 before last night.
Deuce 6pg on 33/28 shooting 4TO and a +12
Playoff stats: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/playof...
Offense not the problem except for bench scoring.
Obvious that Defense, TO and bad fouls has been the problem most often.
DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.
and even then, we held Hali to like 16ppg on 40% shooting in games 2 & 3. Unfortunate this series will always have an * on it because we literally gave away game 1 in such a way like never before.
Ultimately this has been a very close series, but we've also been healthy and that's what worries me, will this team ever get a healthy playoff run again?
Game 1 was the only game we’ve played well IMO. Even winning via another 12 minute burst in game 3 in what was maybe the worst we played all series for the first 3Q wasn’t impressive. Indy won pretty easily the other 2 despite game 2 being close after we made a desperate push and hit some 3s late. They basically held 10 pt leads in games 2 and 4 during the critical junctures.
Game 1 was obviously huge.
Made us the team that was fighting to be on top.
Big shift mentality if we had blown them out.
DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.
Honest question. You’re pretty smart at the Xs and Os. Is there any way we can mitigate Brunson and towns on D, e.g., some form of zone. I’m not expecting a big change on short notice but wondering longer term
What should we do to clean up the turnovers?
HofstraBBall wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:DLeethal wrote:nycericanguy wrote:Now, are we really going to let IND come into MSG THREE times and beat us? Forget about game 1, if IND wins at MSG 3 straight times then again, we simply don't deserve it.Win game 5, put the pressure back on IND.
Still think we can win this but hard not to be down right now, such a golden opportunity. This team did what they were built to do, beat BOS... and we had all the reasons to think BOS was tougher than IND.
We were built to beat Boston but unfortunately overlooked matching up with Indiana. Our forwards can’t guard their guards.
and even then, we held Hali to like 16ppg on 40% shooting in games 2 & 3. Unfortunate this series will always have an * on it because we literally gave away game 1 in such a way like never before.
Ultimately this has been a very close series, but we've also been healthy and that's what worries me, will this team ever get a healthy playoff run again?
Game 1 was the only game we’ve played well IMO. Even winning via another 12 minute burst in game 3 in what was maybe the worst we played all series for the first 3Q wasn’t impressive. Indy won pretty easily the other 2 despite game 2 being close after we made a desperate push and hit some 3s late. They basically held 10 pt leads in games 2 and 4 during the critical junctures.
Game 1 was obviously huge.
Made us the team that was fighting to be on top.
Big shift mentality if we had blown them out.
They needed to win game 2 after that and couldn’t do it.
Chandler wrote:VDesai wrote:Taking Hart off the floor is not the best way to play the trap. Mitch has not been effective starting.I would start Deuce or Wright. Then you have a defender on Hali and a second PG level ballhandler. Add Hart back and you have a third playmaker and a transition player. Yes Hart made bad passes last night, but he got you here playing this role. I really think this is how you beat the way Indy is playing you.
Interesting thought but I don’t agree. We need size on pascal. He abuses smaller players and has had success against og even
We do need to take care of the ball. We lost because of turnovers. Whether that’s because of lost focus or pacers play I don’t know. My guess is focus as exemplified by missed FT too. But last night we did everything better except take care of the ball.
We lost that game
I think Pascal hurts you most when he is going downhill and the defense is off balance - i.e. in transition. I don't fear him as much in a true halfcourt set when you can set your defenders. He's dangerous when defenders are scrambling back or they have the wrong defender chasing him.
To me if you put a lineup out there of Wright or Deuce, Brunson, Hart, OG, Robinson out there that's a good lineup with enough size, defense and ballhandling and a team that can thrive in our own transition game.
DLeethal wrote:Truthfully this team has looked out of sorts all playoffs and has not really played any great games besides game 6 versus Boston. Every win versus Detroit required some level of clutch heroics and we trailed double digits in most of those and stole them late. Boston we won two games where we got dominated for 3Q. Indy we won a game where we got dominated for 3Q. This team hasn’t played complete games or looked the part of a Finals team at all. It’s been one of the wonkiest playoff runs ever I think anyone would agree with that. I thank them for the exhilarating run but this team isn’t ready and they haven’t looked well coached at all. And frankly Thibs looks absolutely confused with what to do with this roster so he just rides his 5 guys even though they get cooked when they play together.
yea its been an odd run, lots of anxiety.
So the fact we havent really played all that well but are close to the finals can be a good thing, unless you think these starters just cant play elite together and that's also quite possible.