Knicks · Game Thread: ECF Game 4 @ Pacers 8PM TNT (page 26)

Shooting 49/38/89 % with 21.3 ppg and 11.4 boards

The 49 and 89 are career -playoff highs - the 3P %, the ppg and rebounds are his 2nd best playoff #s

He’s a lifetime 48/36/85 shooter in 48 playoff games averaging 20/11 over 48 games.

He’s made tons of big shots, been dominant on the boards and has held up for the most part when not in drop coverage. If he ever learned to play smarter he could be something—- he’s been a positive +/- in 4 of 5 games vs Pacers. He was positive in only 2 of 6 vs Celtics and positive in 4 of 6 vs Pistons.

He’s been very good.

LivingLegend wrote:Kat in 6 playoff games…

Shooting 49/38/89 % with 21.3 ppg and 11.4 boards

The 49 and 89 are career -layoff highs - the 3P %, the ppg and rebounds are his 2nd best playoff #s

He’s a lifetime 48/36/85 shooter in 48 playoff games averaging 20/11 over 48 games.

He’s made tons of big shots, been dominant on the boards and has held up for the most part when not in drop coverage. If he ever learned to play smarter he could be something—- he’s been a positive +/- in 4 of 5 games vs Pacers. He was positive in only 2 of 6 vs Celtics and positive in 4 of 6 vs Pistons.

He’s been very good.

Towns is an enigma. The second best offensive big man next to Jokic, but completely brain dead with fouls, can't set a screen to free up Brunson, and teams attack him incessantly on defense. But the elephant in the room and he and Brunson together on defense.

SergioNYK wrote:Kind of expected to come back down 3-1 after going down 0-2. Just how we lost last night was very concerning and disappointing. Team looked unprepared, unfocused and not together. Too many miscommunications on defense and offense. Like they just met and played together for the first time.

Not sure where to start but I'll start with Thibs. He did not have a good game or series. Still no answer on defense for Indiana's speed. The turnovers just killed us. Our offense takes too long to get started and a lot of shot attempts end up with the shot clock about to expire. It's just too hard to score right now and it seems like it's too easy for Indiana. The lineups and strategy and whatever Thibs is doing to spark some energy and focus into this team isn't good enough. The way we came out to start the third was embarrassing.

Next comes JB, whom I love, but he needs to be better. He should not be deferring to Mikal in the fourth quarter. He needs to be himself and attack! Especially in the fourth. Totally fine with him trying to get his teammates involved early but late in the game, he needs to be Mr. Clutch. And he needs to simply try harder on defense.

Most disappointed in Hart and Mikal. I love Hart to death and I will always support him no matter what he's the heart and soul of the team and I know he cares and nobody is feeling worse about his game than he is but shit that was a brutal game. Uncharacteristic turnovers that just killed us and he got beat back door and one on one it seems every time. Hart had a bad game. It happens to every player. He'll bounce back tomorrow. Mikal was also brutal and has been brutal in this series. I know his stat sheet says 17 points and 4/5 from three but so what? His defense, if you want to call it that, on Haliburton was some of the weakest, softest, unacceptable attempts I've ever seen. Mikal died on every screen, lost him in transition and made almost no effort to stay in front of him. I was screaming for Thibs to try someone else cause it wasn't working.

KAT was also disappointing even though he ended up with 24 and 12. Hoping his knee isn't swelling today or else we are in big trouble. I know it's the unpopular opinion but I'd go back to Mitch on the bench. He just isn't impacting the game the same was he was off the bench. Tony Bradley has done a good job of slowing him down which is surprising. Shamet and Wright played well and brought defense but it sucks cause they don't bring anything else to the table and we need to keep up with the Pacers scoring.

But give the Hicks credit. Haliburton was outstanding. I hope this he's overrated and not a super star crap ends now cause he's elite. Mathurin woke up and had a big impact and Nesmith continues to be a pain in the ass. And of course Calisle is pushing all the right buttons. They deserve to be up 3-1. Choked game one or not.

Series is not over and I still believe and fully expect us to bounce back tomorrow in game five. But JB needs to be better than Haliburton, KAT needs to better than Siakim and Hart/OG/Deuce needs to be better than Nesmith/McConnell/Mathurin. And most of all, Thibs needs to be better than Carlisle.

ramtour420 wrote:

SergioNYK wrote:Kind of expected to come back down 3-1 after going down 0-2. Just how we lost last night was very concerning and disappointing. Team looked unprepared, unfocused and not together. Too many miscommunications on defense and offense. Like they just met and played together for the first time.

Not sure where to start but I'll start with Thibs. He did not have a good game or series. Still no answer on defense for Indiana's speed. The turnovers just killed us. Our offense takes too long to get started and a lot of shot attempts end up with the shot clock about to expire. It's just too hard to score right now and it seems like it's too easy for Indiana. The lineups and strategy and whatever Thibs is doing to spark some energy and focus into this team isn't good enough. The way we came out to start the third was embarrassing.

Next comes JB, whom I love, but he needs to be better. He should not be deferring to Mikal in the fourth quarter. He needs to be himself and attack! Especially in the fourth. Totally fine with him trying to get his teammates involved early but late in the game, he needs to be Mr. Clutch. And he needs to simply try harder on defense.

Most disappointed in Hart and Mikal. I love Hart to death and I will always support him no matter what he's the heart and soul of the team and I know he cares and nobody is feeling worse about his game than he is but shit that was a brutal game. Uncharacteristic turnovers that just killed us and he got beat back door and one on one it seems every time. Hart had a bad game. It happens to every player. He'll bounce back tomorrow. Mikal was also brutal and has been brutal in this series. I know his stat sheet says 17 points and 4/5 from three but so what? His defense, if you want to call it that, on Haliburton was some of the weakest, softest, unacceptable attempts I've ever seen. Mikal died on every screen, lost him in transition and made almost no effort to stay in front of him. I was screaming for Thibs to try someone else cause it wasn't working.

KAT was also disappointing even though he ended up with 24 and 12. Hoping his knee isn't swelling today or else we are in big trouble. I know it's the unpopular opinion but I'd go back to Mitch on the bench. He just isn't impacting the game the same was he was off the bench. Tony Bradley has done a good job of slowing him down which is surprising. Shamet and Wright played well and brought defense but it sucks cause they don't bring anything else to the table and we need to keep up with the Pacers scoring.

But give the Hicks credit. Haliburton was outstanding. I hope this he's overrated and not a super star crap ends now cause he's elite. Mathurin woke up and had a big impact and Nesmith continues to be a pain in the ass. And of course Calisle is pushing all the right buttons. They deserve to be up 3-1. Choked game one or not.

Series is not over and I still believe and fully expect us to bounce back tomorrow in game five. But JB needs to be better than Haliburton, KAT needs to better than Siakim and Hart/OG/Deuce needs to be better than Nesmith/McConnell/Mathurin. And most of all, Thibs needs to be better than Carlisle.

I feel like they are in different leagues. Seems like Carlisle is head and shoulders above Thibs in this series

The only time Thibs had Carlisle’s number was when he went deeper into the bench, and Carlisle wasn’t expecting it, and had no adjustment for it. Goes back to Thibs not being so damned predictable.

DLeethal wrote:Truthfully this team has looked out of sorts all playoffs and has not really played any great games besides game 6 versus Boston. Every win versus Detroit required some level of clutch heroics and we trailed double digits in most of those and stole them late. Boston we won two games where we got dominated for 3Q. Indy we won a game where we got dominated for 3Q. This team hasn’t played complete games or looked the part of a Finals team at all. It’s been one of the wonkiest playoff runs ever I think anyone would agree with that. I thank them for the exhilarating run but this team isn’t ready and they haven’t looked well coached at all. And frankly Thibs looks absolutely confused with what to do with this roster so he just rides his 5 guys even though they get cooked when they play together.

Agreed. A little tangential but I think NEEDING to bring in PJ Tucker type player kinda speaks to this. No alpha leader on the team/court, and that player needs to be vocal. Brunson and KAT aren't those types of players and you need them to, for instance, check Josh Hart and his shenanigans. Brunson can get there but he gotta clean up his own game first.

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Kat in 6 playoff games…

Shooting 49/38/89 % with 21.3 ppg and 11.4 boards

The 49 and 89 are career -layoff highs - the 3P %, the ppg and rebounds are his 2nd best playoff #s

He’s a lifetime 48/36/85 shooter in 48 playoff games averaging 20/11 over 48 games.

He’s made tons of big shots, been dominant on the boards and has held up for the most part when not in drop coverage. If he ever learned to play smarter he could be something—- he’s been a positive +/- in 4 of 5 games vs Pacers. He was positive in only 2 of 6 vs Celtics and positive in 4 of 6 vs Pistons.

He’s been very good.

Towns is an enigma. The second best offensive big man next to Jokic, but completely brain dead with fouls, can't set a screen to free up Brunson, and teams attack him incessantly on defense. But the elephant in the room and he and Brunson together on defense.

we need a legitimate big man coach. If Joker can play D, so can KAT. KAT plays offense like a two guard. Can pass too. He's being underutilized

I think back to Giannis and how J.Kidd totally transformed him by putting he ball in his hands. Yes Giannis was effective pre-Kidd. but Kidd unlocked him

Thibs has not been unable to unlock KAT and coaches like he was back in Chicago

Then the whole thing broke when defenses started putting wings on KAT.

We watch this series and conclude KAT and Brunson can't be on the floor together for us to defend.

But then they played the majority of the Boston series together and we played some of our best defense of the season.

Confusing ass team.

With this team...I don't think I'll feel that way. I don't think this team was serious enough on both ends of the floor - and by that the ability to give a consistent effort to make them a team that I could believe would win it. We got past Boston, which we barely could have envisioned, but somehow nothing changed about their inconsistency or the way they operate. Playing defense the way they did last night after coming as far as they've come? How do you explain it? No physicality, incredible lapses, not defending after timeouts or on inbounds plays...these are like basic focus and effort things.

But we lost because of turnovers. We shot and rebounded better than they did

VDesai wrote:I don't want to think about losing, but when I think about this year vs. last year, I feel like losing last year left me with feelings of what might have been. I did believe that team, if it could stay healthy (especially if we could've kept OG on the floor) had a chance to win it all.

With this team...I don't think I'll feel that way. I don't think this team was serious enough on both ends of the floor - and by that the ability to give a consistent effort to make them a team that I could believe would win it. We got past Boston, which we barely could have envisioned, but somehow nothing changed about their inconsistency or the way they operate. Playing defense the way they did last night after coming as far as they've come? How do you explain it? No physicality, incredible lapses, not defending after timeouts or on inbounds plays...these are like basic focus and effort things.

I agree. Last years team maybe could’ve won it all with everyone healthy. But with the injuries they squeezed every bit out of their talent they could. This team feels like it’s unachieved even though the big picture results are pretty good. Truthfully they’ve played more bad basketball than good basketball during this playoff run. They did play very timely good basketball when they needed it most. But so many minutes of head scratching, unprincipled basketball on a nightly basis. You didn’t feel that way last year.

Chandler wrote:We keep talking about our defense. Fair enough

But we lost because of turnovers. We shot and rebounded better than they did

They shot 45/88 for 51.1% and 13/32 from 3% (40.6%)
We shot 38/82 for 46.3% and 12/28 from 3% (42.2%)

So they did shoot better than us, and yes we turned it over, but we allowed 51% for the game and 130 pts in regulation...it was one of our worst defensive performances of the season. Their PG had no turnovers and a 30 point triple double. Great performance, but we gave him tons of space with which to work all night.

Chandler wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

LivingLegend wrote:Kat in 6 playoff games…

Shooting 49/38/89 % with 21.3 ppg and 11.4 boards

The 49 and 89 are career -layoff highs - the 3P %, the ppg and rebounds are his 2nd best playoff #s

He’s a lifetime 48/36/85 shooter in 48 playoff games averaging 20/11 over 48 games.

He’s made tons of big shots, been dominant on the boards and has held up for the most part when not in drop coverage. If he ever learned to play smarter he could be something—- he’s been a positive +/- in 4 of 5 games vs Pacers. He was positive in only 2 of 6 vs Celtics and positive in 4 of 6 vs Pistons.

He’s been very good.

Towns is an enigma. The second best offensive big man next to Jokic, but completely brain dead with fouls, can't set a screen to free up Brunson, and teams attack him incessantly on defense. But the elephant in the room and he and Brunson together on defense.

we need a legitimate big man coach. If Joker can play D, so can KAT. KAT plays offense like a two guard. Can pass too. He's being underutilized

I think back to Giannis and how J.Kidd totally transformed him by putting he ball in his hands. Yes Giannis was effective pre-Kidd. but Kidd unlocked him

Thibs has not been unable to unlock KAT and coaches like he was back in Chicago

Kat's been in the league for 10 full years now -- this old dog ain't learning new tricks especially with Thibs who he's played with for what 4-5 years now?

I guess someone could convince him to play harder - just don't think it happens.

VDesai wrote:

Chandler wrote:We keep talking about our defense. Fair enough

But we lost because of turnovers. We shot and rebounded better than they did

They shot 45/88 for 51.1% and 13/32 from 3% (40.6%)
We shot 38/82 for 46.3% and 12/28 from 3% (42.2%)

So they did shoot better than us, and yes we turned it over, but we allowed 51% for the game and 130 pts in regulation...it was one of our worst defensive performances of the season. Their PG had no turnovers and a 30 point triple double. Great performance, but we gave him tons of space with which to work all night.

Turnovers SUCKED and D SUCKED --- and there were other SUCKED parts as well.

Lets see if we can steal game 5 -- I have almost zero faith in this up/down team.

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Chandler wrote:We keep talking about our defense. Fair enough

But we lost because of turnovers. We shot and rebounded better than they did

This.

houston20 wrote:It not over until it’s over but we have to win game 5 can’t let the pacers celebrate on our home court. If the knicks lose let’s them lose at Indiana.

It's not over to Todd sings

martin wrote:Not good

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EwingGlass was strongly disagreeing with me when I said the Knicks WERE NOT SWITCHING.

If you watch these clips there are NO SWITCHES.

It is basically Jalen trying to get out of the way and doing a horrible job of it and also Kat/Mitch staying on their guy.

Thibs basically let the Pacers hit Mikal with 1 and 2 screens every time down and our defense was basically retreat to the rim and wait for Mikal to catch up. Brunson offered ZERO assistance and should probably be disgraced by this performance.

We also had Mikal casually strolling up the court and basically playing Hali about 4-6 feet away.

We weren't rushing 2 to the ball to make Hali give it up and we weren't slowing the ball even for a second. If you watch all those plays there are Pacers open everywhere.

Why are we not switching everything and living with it? If Jalen can't defend anyone - put him in the trunk.

No effort to make him uncomfortable - no effort to get the ball out of his hands, no effort to deny him the inbounds as they do to Jalen - no effort to use the bench to guard him 94 feet. Nothing NADA.