And then regressed when Brunson came back. I really thought OG would have kept that going.
He had spurts where he was good offensively early in the season when Brunson was there too. November sticks out.
That said its a few things
1) Health - he really slowed down offensively when he got injured and right before he missed time. Something was bothering his lower body/legs. He had a period in December/ Jan with no lift at all and he was falling even moreso than usual.
2) He did better with his low dribble. His biggest issue is turnovers and finishing. The low dribble helped him get to the basket while staying under control. Otherwise he can easily lose the ball, get stripped, be awkward gathering on the finish. He seemed to forget this at time in the playoffs.
3) He certainly was more aggressive with Brunson out. However, do you want an offense where we have OG taking people aggressively off the dribble a lot or Brunson? Ideally you stil want Brunson doing that, but having OG as a better option to get his own buckets did help us at times in the playoffs.
I've always thought that Brunson still has a long way to go before becoming less of a scoring PG and more of a set up PG early in games. And maybe that's not his game, or the offense and players didn't have that flow to them. The Knicks never figured that out this year.
During the Brunson injury, Deuce started and then got injured, followed by Cam getting injured, and then Wright running the show for a bit. Those guys are not necessarily looking to score for themselves.
martin wrote:I've always thought that Brunson still has a long way to go before becoming less of a scoring PG and more of a set up PG early in games. And maybe that's not his game, or the offense and players didn't have that flow to them. The Knicks never figured that out this year.During the Brunson injury, Deuce started and then got injured, followed by Cam getting injured, and then Wright running the show for a bit. Those guys are not necessarily looking to score for themselves.
Its marginal progress. Everything about Brunson's passing and creation got appreciably better last year. We had a lot of games where the ball was flowin and we got 30-4 assists. I think when things got tight Thibs and Brunson revert to Brunson ball - and a lot of times it works, but its ugly. Our guys didn't miss a ton of games this year, but various points were guys were compromised due to injury and thats when we saw this happen the most.
More responsibility, more touches, more opportunities.
But it's not on JB by himself to get OG or anyone else going. It's on the coach and most of all the player himself to ask for the ball and make the most out of the opportunities. And OG wasn't brought here to be a 25 ppg scorer! He was brought here to be a defender and unfairly or not he should get a lot of blame for why we lost against Indiana again. He missed FTs and fumbled a pass in game one and got his ass handed to him all series long by Siakam. We didn't lose because he didn't score 25 ppg.
VDesai wrote:martin wrote:I've always thought that Brunson still has a long way to go before becoming less of a scoring PG and more of a set up PG early in games. And maybe that's not his game, or the offense and players didn't have that flow to them. The Knicks never figured that out this year.During the Brunson injury, Deuce started and then got injured, followed by Cam getting injured, and then Wright running the show for a bit. Those guys are not necessarily looking to score for themselves.
Its marginal progress. Everything about Brunson's passing and creation got appreciably better last year. We had a lot of games where the ball was flowin and we got 30-4 assists. I think when things got tight Thibs and Brunson revert to Brunson ball - and a lot of times it works, but its ugly. Our guys didn't miss a ton of games this year, but various points were guys were compromised due to injury and thats when we saw this happen the most.
100%. Knicks never had a good enough secondary ball handler, and Brunson Thibs whoever didn't have enough of that to help the team. And Knicks and Brunson absolutely have made progress compared to previous.
I don't know if Brunson will get to an elite level ball handling but he was also doubted on being a 1A type dude and now he is one of the best.
SergioNYK wrote:More responsibility, more touches, more opportunities.But it's not on JB by himself to get OG or anyone else going. It's on the coach and most of all the player himself to ask for the ball and make the most out of the opportunities. And OG wasn't brought here to be a 25 ppg scorer! He was brought here to be a defender and unfairly or not he should get a lot of blame for why we lost against Indiana again. He missed FTs and fumbled a pass in game one and got his ass handed to him all series long by Siakam. We didn't lose because he didn't score 25 ppg.
Right.
Or all the guys just needed time to gel and figure things out, natural progression of teammates and cohesion is a thing. Just ask OKC and IND.
Maybe playoffs the teams are just better with teams adjusting?
Rookie wrote:And then regressed when Brunson came back. I really thought OG would have kept that going.
Well you need to ball and that kind of stops once Jalen/Kat are in game and going good.
I also think that was a regular season stretch and OG's offense will remain hit or miss simply because he's an awkward athlete with a very poor handle and very suspect hands.
You don't find great, consistent scorers with both a bad handle and bad hands.
Kat for instance has tremendous hands and with that tremendous touch.
I think it is mostly to do with OG being in attack mode when the ball is moving and he parks at the 3 pt line waiting for the kick out when Brunson is dominating it (which was much of our offense last season). Get a pass first PG or simply move the ball more and we should expect OG to play better and more consistently on offense.
martin wrote:I've always thought that Brunson still has a long way to go before becoming less of a scoring PG and more of a set up PG early in games. And maybe that's not his game, or the offense and players didn't have that flow to them. The Knicks never figured that out this year.During the Brunson injury, Deuce started and then got injured, followed by Cam getting injured, and then Wright running the show for a bit. Those guys are not necessarily looking to score for themselves.
Very frustrating when we start games and Jalen has head down jacking shots while others watch and don't get me going on Kat being virtually invisible in 1st quarters and having to wait until Jalen sat at start of 2nds to get into any flow.
martin wrote:SergioNYK wrote:More responsibility, more touches, more opportunities.But it's not on JB by himself to get OG or anyone else going. It's on the coach and most of all the player himself to ask for the ball and make the most out of the opportunities. And OG wasn't brought here to be a 25 ppg scorer! He was brought here to be a defender and unfairly or not he should get a lot of blame for why we lost against Indiana again. He missed FTs and fumbled a pass in game one and got his ass handed to him all series long by Siakam. We didn't lose because he didn't score 25 ppg.
Right.
Or all the guys just needed time to gel and figure things out, natural progression of teammates and cohesion is a thing. Just ask OKC and IND.
I don't think that's the route - there is just too much poor ball handling, poor passing and poor decisions.
- Josh bad decisions and TO's
- Mikal constantly losing his dribble even when unguarded
- OG struggling to stay upright while making a move and constantly losing the ball to thin air
- Kat decision making
I think the # thing this team needs is 1 at a minimum and 2 hopefully professional ball handlers and passers who make good decisions.
T Jones for example would be perfect -- someone who can get ball from point A to point B and find open shooters (maybe even Kat off a pick and pop for god's sake).
I'd use 2 vet min spots on guys like this -- maybe a PG and maybe a bigger shooting guard - hell even a 3.
If Kolek is going to be the #2 PG -- then get a SG and SF vet min who can dribble/pass and chew gum.
LivingLegend wrote:martin wrote:I've always thought that Brunson still has a long way to go before becoming less of a scoring PG and more of a set up PG early in games. And maybe that's not his game, or the offense and players didn't have that flow to them. The Knicks never figured that out this year.During the Brunson injury, Deuce started and then got injured, followed by Cam getting injured, and then Wright running the show for a bit. Those guys are not necessarily looking to score for themselves.
Very frustrating when we start games and Jalen has head down jacking shots while others watch and don't get me going on Kat being virtually invisible in 1st quarters and having to wait until Jalen sat at start of 2nds to get into any flow.
I believe this was one of many reasons that led to Thibs firing. He allows his players to dictate the offense and when you have a shoot first PG, he will isolate his teammates, especially when he’s rolling. I’ve also seen it when he’s not rolling and trying to find his shot.
But this team needs offensive structure. We have a lot of players with offensive potential, and a new coach can unlock that potential.
I think OG's hammy fluctuates between jerky and taffy.
I strongly disagree with those who say that Brunson doesnt have the skills to be more of a playmaker. Ive seen enough of his game to say with confidence that Brunson could be more floor general than scorer if he really wants to.
Remember the season Melo decided to lead the team in assists? He did it just to show that he could. He was Luka before Luka that season.
Its the same with Brunson, its a choice. If Brunson wants to share the rock more, dribble a lot less, he will. In the end that might be a more important sacrifice than all the money he left on the table.
GustavBahler wrote:I strongly disagree with those who say that Brunson doesnt have the skills to be more of a playmaker. Ive seen enough of his game to say with confidence that Brunson could be more floor general than scorer if he really wants to.Remember the season Melo decided to lead the team in assists? He did it just to show that he could. He was Luka before Luka that season.
Its the same with Brunson, its a choice. If Brunson wants to share the rock more, dribble a lot less, he will. In the end that might be a more important sacrifice than all the money he left on the table.
This is where my head is. I also believe if he has the footwork to do what he does in the paint, he has the footwork to guard other players if only with his feet. And I’m not talking about drawing fouls. He has another level.
ToddTT wrote:I think OG's hammy fluctuates between jerky and taffy.
Truly amazing un-coordination for a professional NBA athlete.
AMazing that OG can do like 5 things extremly well but we find the one and run with that?
His contribution to defense and disruption is very much underated unless he makes an “OH SHIT!” Block and we fawn all over it.
HIs Demonic’s extend to passing lanes, strips, and deflectons that are critical. HE looks awkward at times but yet he had most games played since his rookie year. His shooting can be clutch and he is excellent in the corners. That he goes to the rim with power but when it goes wrong he is a bit slow to passout or gets blocked and its a memorable look.
I’d keep him over Mikal if push comes to shove but my preference is to run it back with or core 4 and move Josh too the bench. We need a shooting 2 next to Jalen. Curious if Gary Trent JR. as a starter can elevate his game surrounded by quality?
I know Shamet can be very inconsistent but maybe if he were in the starting lineup his role would shift as he would have steady playing time? Def harder to play great when your minutes are starved and infrequent off the bench compared to playing in a steady rotation...
That would allow us to use Deuce and Hart off the bench which would balance us while improving our floor spacing with Hart not starting.
jskinny35 wrote:I know Shamet can be very inconsistent but maybe if he were in the starting lineup his role would shift as he would have steady playing time? Def harder to play great when your minutes are starved and infrequent off the bench compared to playing in a steady rotation...That would allow us to use Deuce and Hart off the bench which would balance us while improving our floor spacing with Hart not starting.
Not a bad Idea but hard to do when your mid season and josh was not missing games. Not like knicks were failing. 3rd seed and having to bring Mitch into the fold.
shamet was coming on very nice hitting his shots. Deuce knee was getting better and he was also playing more. Shamet defense was improving with his foot speed as he got into better shape as season progressed.
Landry might have been a part of FO frustrations with Thibs?
..>>>If there was just more time???? LOL
The double stack action with KAT getting the ball at the top of the key and OG or Mikal diving to the basket was a thing of beauty. They did this around January to February. Then "After all that" they stopped doing it. Go figure.
