Knicks · Fire Mike Brown (page 2)
It's still crazy to me that we extended Thibs contract for 3 more years and he didn't even play one single day of his extension.
TheGame wrote:Only Knicks fans could start a Fire Mike Brown topic before even coaches his first game. Lol.
You mean before he was even officially signed, lol
TheGame wrote:Only Knicks fans could start a Fire Mike Brown topic before even coaches his first game. Lol.
I see what you did there.
Rookie wrote:I give Mike Brown 2 years before he is firedIt's still crazy to me that we extended Thibs contract for 3 more years and he didn't even play one single day of his extension.
Firing Thibs and downgrading our coach with the most talented roster this century is extremely frustrating and disappointing.
Mike is an experienced average coach and will absolutely be replaced within 2 years. I would be surprised if he is here beyond that. Thibs is a terrific coach and did not deserve to be fired. I understand his shortcomings, but it did not warrant his dismissal. He wanted be here.
Expecting to reach the finals in Mike’s first season as head coach is ridiculous and breeds a losing culture. Of course we want to reach the finals, however the pressure and expectation during his first season sounds like a money grab via gift of gab.
OffDaMeterzzzz wrote:Rookie wrote:I give Mike Brown 2 years before he is firedIt's still crazy to me that we extended Thibs contract for 3 more years and he didn't even play one single day of his extension.
Firing Thibs and downgrading our coach with the most talented roster this century is extremely frustrating and disappointing.
Mike is an experienced average coach and will absolutely be replaced within 2 years. I would be surprised if he is here beyond that. Thibs is a terrific coach and did not deserve to be fired. I understand his shortcomings, but it did not warrant his dismissal. He wanted be here.
Expecting to reach the finals in Mike’s first season as head coach is ridiculous and breeds a losing culture. Of course we want to reach the finals, however the pressure and expectation during his first season sounds like a money grab via gift of gab.
Yes! YES!!!
OffDaMeterzzzz wrote:Rookie wrote:I give Mike Brown 2 years before he is firedIt's still crazy to me that we extended Thibs contract for 3 more years and he didn't even play one single day of his extension.
Firing Thibs and downgrading our coach with the most talented roster this century is extremely frustrating and disappointing.
Mike is an experienced average coach and will absolutely be replaced within 2 years. I would be surprised if he is here beyond that. Thibs is a terrific coach and did not deserve to be fired. I understand his shortcomings, but it did not warrant his dismissal. He wanted be here.
Expecting to reach the finals in Mike’s first season as head coach is ridiculous and breeds a losing culture. Of course we want to reach the finals, however the pressure and expectation during his first season sounds like a money grab via gift of gab.
. Thibodeau has a career regular season record of 578-420 (.579), while Brown is 454-304 (.599). In the playoffs, Brown has a 50-40 (.556) record, whereas Thibodeau is 48-55 (.466). Overall, Brown has a better winning percentage (.594) than Thibodeau (.569).
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
Tom Thibodeau:
Regular Season: 578-420 (.579)
Playoffs: 48-55 (.466)
Total: 626-475 (.569)
Mike Brown:
Regular Season: 454-304 (.599)
Playoffs: 50-40 (.556)
Total: 504-344 (.594)[url="https://www.google.com/search?q=tom+thibodeau+coaching+record+vs+mike+brown+coaching+record&client=ms-android-verizon-us-rvc3&sca_esv=8f34a626dcb28ba8&sxsrf=AE3TifPLhf8WWEko6EPl3CgI4JkGXh90wQ%3A1752110817826&ei=4RZvaMePMqfk5NoPnsS30Ac&oq=tom+thibodeau+coaching+record+vs+Mike+Brown&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIit0b20gdGhpYm9kZWF1IGNvYWNoaW5nIHJlY29yZCB2cyBNaWtlIEJyb3duKgIIADIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRigATIFECEYoAEyBRAhGKABMgUQIRirAjIFECEYqwIyBRAhGKsCSKI6UJULWPoycAJ4AZABAJgBtAGgAaoQqgEEMC4xNbgBAcgBAPgBAZgCEaAC3xDCAgoQABiwAxjWBBhHwgINEC4YgAQYsAMYQxiKBcICChAjGIAEGCcYigXCAgUQABiABMICCxAAGIAEGIYDGIoFwgIGEAAYFhgewgIFECEYnwXCAggQABiABBiiBJgDAIgGAZAGCZIHBDIuMTWgB_JtsgcEMC4xNbgH1RDCBwYwLjEyLjXIBzE&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp"]Tom vs Mike[/url]
Respect your right to your opinion but, it may not be factually accurate, and I loved Thibs.
It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
We had some good wins earlier in the season, but also a cream puff schedule.
GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
The league adapted to our starting lineup by daring Hart to shoot and better covering the rest. I think that around the same time reports started surfacing about Hart’s knee issues. Thibs didn’t adapt how he should’ve. Our defensive strategy hardly improved, and that was shocking coming from a Thibs team. The starting lineup had to be shaken up, and it wasn’t until we had a deficit on our final playoff series. I respect Thibs a lot, but management had many reasons to want to move forward. This sanctification of him because he was fired after a surprising run to the ECF is bizarre because we all went through a very frustrating season where it wasn’t until shocking how the Knicks, as successful as they were, still seemed to underachieve til the end. Nobody takes away what Thibs did for us, but the team needed a change.
Now, the problem for some here is that Brown isn’t sexy enough? He has proved himself as an assistant and as a head coach. He proved on his last stop that he can adapt to his roster and to the changes of the league and still be successful. Will he win us a championship? That’s yet to be seen, but if there is a coach close to do so with his experience it’s him. Now he has a battle-ready roster with a few bench upgrades at his disposal. It’s a good situation for both the team and him. He deserves a chance.
GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
Just don’t see things being that much different. All coaches want to win. Especially new ones.
I hope you are right and Brown comes in and plays everyone like fans want. Not saying that’s your point but think Brown will go with a 8-9 man rotation of who he feels gives him the best chance to win. Also think we will gel quickly. We added a couple of experienced players who will improve the bench right away.
Tbh, I am focused on our defense intensity. It is the one thing I fear will drop off.
GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
I don't see the young players getting burn like that unless its due to inj. Huk has the best shot at some mins if they go twin towers for the starting lineup. But Dadiet & Kolek have an uphill battle to climb to see mins based on whats ahead of them.
There could be scenarios where Brown offers rest days maybe that allows young players to get PT. Outside of that injuries seem like the best bet.
Imo what they are hoping for though is that by the season after this coming one. When Mikal & Mitch needs to be extended, and Clarkson is looking to get an increase for his final contract. They will also need to make decisions on Mikal, Hart, OG, Kat depending on how the season goes. Going into year 3 hopefully some of these young guys would be able to get plugged in to the rotation offering Knicks the flexibility to make these decisions easier.
So hopefully Kolek at $2.3mil would be ready to step up an replace Clarkson who will probably demand a lot more than that Rose that flexibility and optionality. Same for Huk who say gets resigned for a Deuce deal at like $4mil giving Rose flexibility and optionality on extending Mitch.
newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
I don't see the young players getting burn like that unless its due to inj. Huk has the best shot at some mins if they go twin towers for the starting lineup. But Dadiet & Kolek have an uphill battle to climb to see mins based on whats ahead of them.
There could be scenarios where Brown offers rest days maybe that allows young players to get PT. Outside of that injuries seem like the best bet.
Imo what they are hoping for though is that by next season when Mikal & Mitch needs to be extended, and Clarkson is looking to get an increase for his final contract. They will also need to make decisions on Mikal, Hart, OG, Kat depending on how the season goes. Going into year 3 hopefully some of these young guys would be able to get plugged in to the rotation offering Knicks the flexibility to make these decisions easier.
So hopefully Kolek at $2.3mil would be ready to step up an replace Clarkson who will probably demand a lot more than that Rose that flexibility and optionality. Same for Huk who say gets resigned for a Deuce deal at like $4mil giving Rose flexibility and optionality on extending Mitch.
I see the view on Kolek wide open. He could very well be in the rotation or be cast into the Gleague never to be seen again with everything in between. This is not a "See, I called it" kind of view. With Knicks in win now mode and him 25 by March his two year window as a second round pick is limited. The kid has the game but the NBA speed and size is unforgiving. That he NOT 20 years old limits his knick window. Maybe he finds a future but not with Knicks.
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
I don't see the young players getting burn like that unless its due to inj. Huk has the best shot at some mins if they go twin towers for the starting lineup. But Dadiet & Kolek have an uphill battle to climb to see mins based on whats ahead of them.
There could be scenarios where Brown offers rest days maybe that allows young players to get PT. Outside of that injuries seem like the best bet.
Imo what they are hoping for though is that by next season when Mikal & Mitch needs to be extended, and Clarkson is looking to get an increase for his final contract. They will also need to make decisions on Mikal, Hart, OG, Kat depending on how the season goes. Going into year 3 hopefully some of these young guys would be able to get plugged in to the rotation offering Knicks the flexibility to make these decisions easier.
So hopefully Kolek at $2.3mil would be ready to step up an replace Clarkson who will probably demand a lot more than that Rose that flexibility and optionality. Same for Huk who say gets resigned for a Deuce deal at like $4mil giving Rose flexibility and optionality on extending Mitch.
I see the view on Kolek wide open. He could very well be in the rotation or be cast into the Gleague never to be seen again with everything in between. This is not a "See, I called it" kind of view. With Knicks in win now mode and him 25 by March his two year window as a second round pick is limited. The kid has the game but the NBA speed and size is unforgiving. That he NOT 20 years old limits his knick window. Maybe he finds a future but not with Knicks.
Of course its wide open. Knicks have their first round pick the next draft, could use it on a PG prospect that they fall in love with. Kolek gets pushed down the pecking order and traded, many different possibilities.
Speaking more on what the hope is realistically within the concept of development of the youth be it Kolek or any other prospect. AKA having players on cost controlled rookie scale contracts in the rotation. Saving money on the cap to stay out of the aprons. Flexibility to make trades to upgrade the roster. Extend contention windows.
Knicksfan wrote:GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
The league adapted to our starting lineup by daring Hart to shoot and better covering the rest. I think that around the same time reports started surfacing about Hart’s knee issues. Thibs didn’t adapt how he should’ve. Our defensive strategy hardly improved, and that was shocking coming from a Thibs team. The starting lineup had to be shaken up, and it wasn’t until we had a deficit on our final playoff series. I respect Thibs a lot, but management had many reasons to want to move forward. This sanctification of him because he was fired after a surprising run to the ECF is bizarre because we all went through a very frustrating season where it wasn’t until shocking how the Knicks, as successful as they were, still seemed to underachieve til the end. Nobody takes away what Thibs did for us, but the team needed a change.
Now, the problem for some here is that Brown isn’t sexy enough? He has proved himself as an assistant and as a head coach. He proved on his last stop that he can adapt to his roster and to the changes of the league and still be successful. Will he win us a championship? That’s yet to be seen, but if there is a coach close to do so with his experience it’s him. Now he has a battle-ready roster with a few bench upgrades at his disposal. It’s a good situation for both the team and him. He deserves a chance.
I think 2 things could be true at the same time: 1) The lineup needed to be changed from Jan onward and 2) There was nothing really to change to because of injuries (outside of riding rookies).
Knicks were fully limited last year because of the KAT trade/roster consolidation, injuries, and their decision to not play the young kids.
That's kind of the fuller story.
newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
I don't see the young players getting burn like that unless its due to inj. Huk has the best shot at some mins if they go twin towers for the starting lineup. But Dadiet & Kolek have an uphill battle to climb to see mins based on whats ahead of them.
There could be scenarios where Brown offers rest days maybe that allows young players to get PT. Outside of that injuries seem like the best bet.
Imo what they are hoping for though is that by the season after this coming one. When Mikal & Mitch needs to be extended, and Clarkson is looking to get an increase for his final contract. They will also need to make decisions on Mikal, Hart, OG, Kat depending on how the season goes. Going into year 3 hopefully some of these young guys would be able to get plugged in to the rotation offering Knicks the flexibility to make these decisions easier.
So hopefully Kolek at $2.3mil would be ready to step up an replace Clarkson who will probably demand a lot more than that Rose that flexibility and optionality. Same for Huk who say gets resigned for a Deuce deal at like $4mil giving Rose flexibility and optionality on extending Mitch.
Bench played the fewest minutes in the league last season. Only one way to go from there. I don’t see our starters playing the most minutes of any starting unit in decades either. These things weren’t normal for a starting unit or bench. So a new coach should change that dynamic, and give our bench, (and our yoots) a better shot to earn more PT. I don’t believe Brown will be so unforgiving about a young player making mistakes. They may get more of an earful from Brown, but I don’t believe they will be buried on the bench because of one blown assignment.
Nalod wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
I don't see the young players getting burn like that unless its due to inj. Huk has the best shot at some mins if they go twin towers for the starting lineup. But Dadiet & Kolek have an uphill battle to climb to see mins based on whats ahead of them.
There could be scenarios where Brown offers rest days maybe that allows young players to get PT. Outside of that injuries seem like the best bet.
Imo what they are hoping for though is that by next season when Mikal & Mitch needs to be extended, and Clarkson is looking to get an increase for his final contract. They will also need to make decisions on Mikal, Hart, OG, Kat depending on how the season goes. Going into year 3 hopefully some of these young guys would be able to get plugged in to the rotation offering Knicks the flexibility to make these decisions easier.
So hopefully Kolek at $2.3mil would be ready to step up an replace Clarkson who will probably demand a lot more than that Rose that flexibility and optionality. Same for Huk who say gets resigned for a Deuce deal at like $4mil giving Rose flexibility and optionality on extending Mitch.
I see the view on Kolek wide open. He could very well be in the rotation or be cast into the Gleague never to be seen again with everything in between. This is not a "See, I called it" kind of view. With Knicks in win now mode and him 25 by March his two year window as a second round pick is limited. The kid has the game but the NBA speed and size is unforgiving. That he NOT 20 years old limits his knick window. Maybe he finds a future but not with Knicks.
Kolek averaged seven minutes a game as a rook. Frank was a FRP, played professionally since he was a teenager in France, and got 20 minutes a game as a rook. Hard to give a definitive answer on Kolek with such a small sample size, but I believe we saw enough to be hopeful.
GustavBahler wrote:newyorknewyork wrote:GustavBahler wrote:From the beginning of last season until January, Knicks got off to a hot start, but the starting unit was a statistical negative from that point on. We rode the starters to a hot start, and things started to peter out by the new year.It wouldn’t be surprising to see the Knicks have some early losses due to developing players, and incorporating the recent FAs into the rotation. It also wouldn’t be surprising if the Knicks drew a lower seed because of the growing pains of the bench. But I think we will be in a better position in the playoffs. A less taxed starting unit, and a deeper and better prepared bench.
I don't see the young players getting burn like that unless its due to inj. Huk has the best shot at some mins if they go twin towers for the starting lineup. But Dadiet & Kolek have an uphill battle to climb to see mins based on whats ahead of them.
There could be scenarios where Brown offers rest days maybe that allows young players to get PT. Outside of that injuries seem like the best bet.
Imo what they are hoping for though is that by the season after this coming one. When Mikal & Mitch needs to be extended, and Clarkson is looking to get an increase for his final contract. They will also need to make decisions on Mikal, Hart, OG, Kat depending on how the season goes. Going into year 3 hopefully some of these young guys would be able to get plugged in to the rotation offering Knicks the flexibility to make these decisions easier.
So hopefully Kolek at $2.3mil would be ready to step up an replace Clarkson who will probably demand a lot more than that Rose that flexibility and optionality. Same for Huk who say gets resigned for a Deuce deal at like $4mil giving Rose flexibility and optionality on extending Mitch.
Bench played the fewest minutes in the league last season. Only one way to go from there. I don’t see our starters playing the most minutes of any starting unit in decades either. These things weren’t normal for a starting unit or bench. So a new coach should change that dynamic, and give our bench, (and our yoots) a better shot to earn more PT. I don’t believe Brown will be so unforgiving about a young player making mistakes. They may get more of an earful from Brown, but I don’t believe they will be buried on the bench because of one blown assignment.
Bench will get plenty of burn. Speaking more about the yoots. Brunson, Mikal, OG, Towns, Hart, Mitch, Deuce, Clarkson, Yabu will obtain a majority of the mins. That's a 9 man rotation right there, splitting 20-30mins per game among them. Very difficult to project Kolek for example getting more than 7mins a game with JB and Clarkson ahead of him? They will generate probably low 30s and low 20s in mins between them to be conservative. Only 48 available mins per position. If Brunson only got 30mins, that would only leave 18mins left at backup PG. In order for Clarkson to be able to generate 20mins he will need to take all the backup PG mins and some SG mins.
Foul trouble &/or injuries will be the available options though. As well as blow outs. Thibs for the most part would extend the mins of the shorter rotation with injuries and or play starters deep into blow outs. Brown will probably be quicker to give others mins in these scenarios.