Knicks · Game: Happy New Year! Knicks (23-9) at Spurs (23-9) 12/31 7pm (MSG) (page 5)

The only reason we lost this game was KAT and his awful effort on defense.. also on the coach for not taking him out I was screaming for brown to take him out for the last 5 minutes… you take Kat out and we adjust to the one play they ran for the last half of the 4th to get them back in the game …

Kat was drained for the 4th quarter if I can see that from the tv why couldn’t brown recognize that live ?

If Mitch was healthy he should’ve played and if Mitch played we win this game .

jaydh wrote:

martin wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:This game highlights what I'll call:

The Curse of the Giveth/Taketh Player

of whom we have two specifically, KAT & Clarkson

KAT is the ultimate good and bad player, something every Knicks fan is all too familiar with with his stupid mistakes

Jordan Clarkson made so many mistakes defensively this game and some on offense too that it tends to negate his scoring off the bench tonight.

Neither player was helping us down the stretch other than a KAT putback, but overall they were getting scored on, leaving shooters wide open and getting called for dumb fouls

This is where I fault Brown. Perhaps you keep KAT on the floor, but it was very clear in the last 5-6 minutes of the game when he was our only big on the floor we were getting abused in the paint and Kornet was the superior center in the clutch. At that point, you either bring in Huk or sub out KAT and roll with Hukporti who was having a better game than KAT defensively and leave the scoring to the other Knicks.

But an even bigger criticism was Clarkson was a massive detriment down the stretch. I couldn't believe someone like McCullar wasn't in the game instead when we clearly were getting torched down the stretch. Lo and behold, McCullar enters the last minute and makes an incredible defensive play that could have led to a final shot attempt to tie the game.

We choked down the stretch and I think part of that was Brown choking and not making what looked like obvious defensive adjustments. Guys like Deuce and McCullar should have been in the game most of the 4th. They defend and can score.

Tonight I was thinking of Giannis and how much better we'd be with him instead of KAT. Sorry, but this game pushed me over the edge. I'm ready for the big trade now.

And I'm ready for McCullar to excel and take those key minutes away from Clarkson. He looks ready for prime time. Give him a long leash coach.

Yes and yes. Was gonna say the same. Especially after he left Champange open repeatedly

Was that on Clarkson or was that because Brunson was not defending well and Clarkson was trying to cover 2 players at times?

Probably both. But maybe I was just focusing on one particular play where I noticed it

If my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle.

fitzfarm wrote:The only reason we lost this game was KAT and his awful effort on defense.. also on the coach for not taking him out I was screaming for brown to take him out for the last 5 minutes… you take Kat out and we adjust to the one play they ran for the last half of the 4th to get them back in the game …

Kat was drained for the 4th quarter if I can see that from the tv why couldn’t brown recognize that live ?

If Mitch was healthy he should’ve played and if Mitch played we win this game .

KAT been a bit up and down

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This game made one thing clear. We need a more defensive-minded coach!

It's still encouraging that the game was so close without Mitch and Hart. If the Spurs have OKC's #, chances are we will be seeing the Spurs in the finals if all things go right. We match up well at full strength, but I think the key is to keep playing a deep bench.

ToddTT wrote:This game made one thing clear. We need a more defensive-minded coach!

No coach is changing KAT. We are just a different team without Robinson.

DLeethal wrote:Yea I think we tried to ride Clarkson's hot hand a little too deep into the 4th last night. I think the Knicks showed some good signs - we controlled most of the game - we crumbled at the end (kind of the reverse of what we normally do to team late in games). But overall it was a hard fought game on the road against the elite of the West. Should've won, didn't, these games will happen. But overall a strong showing IMO. I have been more concerned after some of the recent W's than this loss. Keep in mind no Hart or Mitch as well.

Mitch was our missing ingredient last night. Still would need to defend the three better, but Mitch would have given us far more shot opportunities. We were mostly one and done on misses late in the game.

fitzfarm wrote:The only reason we lost this game was KAT and his awful effort on defense.. also on the coach for not taking him out I was screaming for brown to take him out for the last 5 minutes… you take Kat out and we adjust to the one play they ran for the last half of the 4th to get them back in the game …

Kat was drained for the 4th quarter if I can see that from the tv why couldn’t brown recognize that live ?

If Mitch was healthy he should’ve played and if Mitch played we win this game .

This was the game where Brown didn't read the room correctly. He seems like a coach who learns from his mistakes so I would like to think he'll recognize the situation in the future.

If Mitch is the difference maker we are ****ed.

I’m going with Josh. He’ll be the difference next time.

And maybe the flawless coach Brown learned a lesson or two last night.

This game gave Nesmith PTSD from Game 1. I don't get how they continued to even allow Champagnie to keep shooting it. And it's not like his looks came off Wemby double teams or a break down on defense. We just continued to disrespect him and he torched us! Same shit we did with Nesmith. I hope Brown has a detailed film session and drills it into these guys that when a player is hot like that, you do not help off him under any circumstance! It already cost us our season last year and it can very well cost us again this year.

On the bright side, we again showed we can play with them. Wemby is a huge problem but we outplayed them for most of the game. A few breaks here and there and we won this game. Hats off to McCullers once again. He made a lot of effort plays. Wish there was a way to get him more minutes. But that first quarter and first half was beautiful. This team has a lot of potential but it's the little things that could hold them back from getting to the Finals.

Bad decisions, lack of focus, lack of height, too slow, Wemby gravity.

ToddTT wrote:If my grandmother had wheels she;d be a bicycle.

Not if she had FOUR wheels!

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:If my grandmother had wheels she;d be a bicycle.

Not if she had FOUR wheels!

No cracks about what a sweet ride grandma is.

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:If my grandmother had wheels she;d be a bicycle.

Not if she had FOUR wheels!

No cracks about what a sweet ride grandma is.

Your Grandma has a nice basket

BlueKnickers wrote:

ToddTT wrote:

Panos wrote:

ToddTT wrote:If my grandmother had wheels she;d be a bicycle.

Not if she had FOUR wheels!

No cracks about what a sweet ride grandma is.

Your Grandma has a nice basket

She does Pilates.

Grandma jokes ? Really? How did we come to sink so low? Or, perhaps, this is the high point of humorous jokes?

This loss hurt bad. A win would have shut up a lot of the commenting class.

Nalod wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Would we be a better team if we somehow swapped KAT and filler for Myles Turner and Divencenzo? I get Turner is overpaid but he plays solid defense and shoots well enough from deep to continue our offensive spacing. Pretty sure Milw could send Portis or Kuzma to Minn if they can pair KAT with Giannis. Not worried about that pairing because they don't have enough guard play. Divencenzo coming back would give us more shooting and depth as well.

I doubt that would happen because Giannis would have to feel this is a step back towards contention and I don't think it would be.

That said, yes, we'd be better defensively. We have the scoring already so losing KAT just means more for the rest of the squad. Scoring isn't our issue. Losing KAT wouldn't stop us from rolling offensively.

More for JSkinny, what is "filler? Deuce? Mitch? BTW, DDV and Turner make 37m between them. THats not enough for KAT. Besides the money, thats not enough for KAT. Still, he is all NBA caliber!
I get Turner has length and blocks shots, but with KAT your Talking 24pts, 12 rebs and Myles is HALF of KAT totals. Half.

DDV does have a halo on him for good reason given he was here for one season and did really well.

You get into playoffs, I like us with Mitch and Kat vs. iHart/Chet if we get there. Also confident OG can contain Chet who is very improved from last years playoffs when he not 100%. Im not thinking beyond this seaosn BTW.

Filler could involve a 3rd team where we send a pick or Pacome or someting non-essential. I posed the hypothetical question because KAT's defense is again the main problem to solve. His offense sometimes can hide a bad defensive performance, but often it's just so glaring and wrecks what our team identity has been about the past few years. The best solution is to get KAT to play more consistently and passionately on the defensive side... but he's about 10 seasons in and think what we see is what we get (kind of like Mitch hitting free throws and being somewhat unreliably physically). It's true Myles Turner only gives about 1/2 the production - but isn't 12 and 6 and can be played at the end of a close game just as valuable as the weak link in a chain that can't? I feel like KAT's talent gets us to the final 6 but than we really can't use him as much against the final 4-6 teams as much as we should be for his starting positon and salary. So we have to put Mitch in who can barely hit a free throw. Maybe Brown being a more adaptive and trusting his bench type of coach can overcome that for us?

jskinny35 wrote:

Nalod wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

jskinny35 wrote:Would we be a better team if we somehow swapped KAT and filler for Myles Turner and Divencenzo? I get Turner is overpaid but he plays solid defense and shoots well enough from deep to continue our offensive spacing. Pretty sure Milw could send Portis or Kuzma to Minn if they can pair KAT with Giannis. Not worried about that pairing because they don't have enough guard play. Divencenzo coming back would give us more shooting and depth as well.

I doubt that would happen because Giannis would have to feel this is a step back towards contention and I don't think it would be.

That said, yes, we'd be better defensively. We have the scoring already so losing KAT just means more for the rest of the squad. Scoring isn't our issue. Losing KAT wouldn't stop us from rolling offensively.

More for JSkinny, what is "filler? Deuce? Mitch? BTW, DDV and Turner make 37m between them. THats not enough for KAT. Besides the money, thats not enough for KAT. Still, he is all NBA caliber!
I get Turner has length and blocks shots, but with KAT your Talking 24pts, 12 rebs and Myles is HALF of KAT totals. Half.

DDV does have a halo on him for good reason given he was here for one season and did really well.

You get into playoffs, I like us with Mitch and Kat vs. iHart/Chet if we get there. Also confident OG can contain Chet who is very improved from last years playoffs when he not 100%. Im not thinking beyond this seaosn BTW.

Filler could involve a 3rd team where we send a pick or Pacome or someting non-essential. I posed the hypothetical question because KAT's defense is again the main problem to solve. His offense sometimes can hide a bad defensive performance, but often it's just so glaring and wrecks what our team identity has been about the past few years. The best solution is to get KAT to play more consistently and passionately on the defensive side... but he's about 10 seasons in and think what we see is what we get (kind of like Mitch hitting free throws and being somewhat unreliably physically). It's true Myles Turner only gives about 1/2 the production - but isn't 12 and 6 and can be played at the end of a close game just as valuable as the weak link in a chain that can't? I feel like KAT's talent gets us to the final 6 but than we really can't use him as much against the final 4-6 teams as much as we should be for his starting positon and salary. So we have to put Mitch in who can barely hit a free throw. Maybe Brown being a more adaptive and trusting his bench type of coach can overcome that for us?

I also have concerns about KAT as the C on a championship team.

Scanning the list of starting Centers around the NBA, on the best teams I see what I'll put into three groups:

2-way Centers
Elite defensive centers
High efficiency centers on offense (i.e. not mistake prone, makes good decisions, takes the right shots and makes them at a good clip or makes the right decision and moves the ball well)

After looking over that list, I felt KAT is the lowest IQ basketball player among starting centers on Top 10 teams.

When you combine his tendency to make bad choices and collect stupid fouls, he is also a net negative defender for a 7 footer.

Does his offense and occasional defense add up?

I'm not convinced he has what it takes to be the C on a championship team.

KAT will get abused in the playoffs more often than not. He had one stretch that stood out in that regard was his defense of Jokic. It showed what is possible for him, but he has not gotten back to that level since. It was a blip in the scale of time he has played.