Knicks · Game Thread: Game 2 Knicks vs Hawks 8PM Peacock (page 13)

nycericanguy wrote:I will say I dont think ive ever seen Brunson get stripped as many times as he did in that 4th. only had 3 TO's but it felt like alot more. a bit concerning how much he struggling against ATL's pressure.

he'll probably go for 40 on 12-18 next game and I still think we win in 5 but concerning because defenses will only get better.

Looked like there were always 4 defenders collapsed into the paint on Brunson drives. Either our spacing was bad or they are saying you can’t beat us with the 3 ball. Maybe they just recovery out to shooters very fast. I didn’t see a lot of open looks.

nycericanguy wrote:I'm not one to blame coaches but there were several things that really irked me in this game. Deuce is NOT a PG, love him but he's never been a PG and that's why he won't command a huge contract as some seem to think. It was clear he could not handle the on ball pressure in that 2nd quarter, yet Brown not only left him in there way too long but he had him as the primary ball handler. Took him way too long to pivot to Clarkson and Jose to handle the ball.

2nd, he kept playing a lineup without either KAT or Brunson even though KAT has been feasting without Brunson of late, and even though that unit was struggling to get ANYTHING going. It was clear ONE of those guys should have been in there at all times.

3rd, somehow late in the 4th we allowed ATL to get Brunson guarding CJ almost EVERY SINGLE TIME, I was screaming at my TV to make sure we got someone else on him, yet all it took was a simple screen and Brunson was guarding CJ every single damn time and getting cooked. No adjustment there at all.

Up 12 going in the 4th, that's a choke job and something this team should have learned from already.

We were much too complacent.

Right now the truth is CJ has been the best player on the court these 2 games and he's winning the Brunson matchup.

Truth

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Brunson was also terrible. You could see Brunson ball creeping in late and could almost feel where it was going.

Again this is also on Coach Brown. There were at least 2-3 turnovers Brunson had last night he got trapped on a double with the out of bounds behind him and brown should have called the timeout.

I guess Coach Brown was saving the timeouts for…?

Knicks did not have a time out left at games end. So to your point, your thinking Brown knew a turnover was coming and should have seen the future?

There were a few really good shots that were "in and out". Team went cold. That happens too. It sucks.

ATL got really good at swiping the ball down the stretch. OG, Brunson, and Kat all got picked. No acknowledgment of that talent?
I know your hurt. Losing a lead is oh so painful. Need a scapegoat. But your not a 12 year old boy inconsolable are you?

You’re right Brown is doing a wonderful job

Chandler wrote:

Uptown wrote:tonight 4th quarter looked similar to the 4th quarter of game 2 last year vs. the Pistons. Lots of standing around and watching Brunson dribble the air out of the ball...Hopefully we bounce back like we did last year

I think we will. We have been a bit Jekyll and Hyde this year, but when we're good we're very, very good. Hopefully this has them lock in. KAT needs to touch the ball. JB is great but needs to get over himself

It's not about bouncing back it is literally about the cumulative effect of having to grind out EXTRA GAMES rather than taking care of business (we got outscored by 13 F-ing points in the 4th quarter at home after having the most dominant 4th record in the league).

Now even if you win this series in 5 -- you still added an extra game for potential wear/tear or even a key injury. OG seems about ready to blow physically - can barely walk without calamity.

How the hell are we allowing pretty much washed-up thrown into multiple trades CJ McCollum walk all over us while Brunson guards him?

DLeethal wrote:I think it would be wise to play more Jose than Deuce this series and even playing Jose with Brunson more. They are loading up at the point of attack and we need more ball handling out there. That was evident the entire game even while we had a lead.

Deuce looks shot in this series. Can’t put the ball in the ocean and is a liability on D. Alvarado didn’t really do anything either last night except theatrics but yeah if he was the backup pg and got more playing time maybe he gets more in rhythm.

Clarkson actually played well. He has lots of playoff experience and it shows.

Mitch was one of the prime suspects - he fell asleep on numerous pick / drop plays where he was out of position and gave up dunks over his head - Brown screamed directly at him but it wasn't just Mitch - numerous occasions where we just gave 1/2 ass effort -- same thing over and over = can't sustain proper mentality.

Plus once again tonight - he's done this consistently -- Kat get's rolling and Brown subs in Mitch -- just mind boggling.

sweep5 wrote:Likely pointed out somewhere in the thread above, but I’ll repeat. Hard to win when 3 in the rotation (Shamet, Alvarado, McBride)go a combined 0-7 from the field with 5 TOs in their collective 32 minutes.

Those 3 shat themselves.

BlueKnickers wrote:Woke up this morning
Asked myself:
Was it really as bad as everyone thought it was?
Drink some coffee
Hmmmmm, tastes good
Yes, yes it was as bad as everyone says it was

Hawks were probably the toughest opponent for us of the 3 teams that were going in and out of the 6th seed. Said it before it’s likely a 6 or 7 game series.

I really hope Knicks fans show up to ATL tomorrow night like they did in the regular season.

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LivingLegend wrote:

martin wrote:Yep

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But hold on - that Deuce/Shamet/Clarkson/OG/Mitch line-up has been the NORMAL line-up since we benched Jose for incompetence weeks ago.

It's not like Brown just pulled this one out last 2 games and outside of Kolek we STILL DON'T have a got-damm PG off the bench after 1,000 years. UNBELIEVABLE that in what is supposed to be pinnacle season the front office determined GTA would be their target AND nobody realized he's NOT A PG and he can't make a shot. As fans we see the guy and think oh ok - tough little guy has to be a PG but front office paid $MMM to know the league and understand players strengths.

I conclude we have to give Kolek minutes and we have to give MO-D minutes - his shooting has gone south but his length, driving and passing are ALL superior to Deuce/Shamet. Kolek at least opens up Mikal/OG/Kat -- something nobody else other than Hart seems capable of.

Agree but you have to pivot in the game. What worked for 2 weeks to end the year might not work against a playoff opponent. It was clear as day in the first half that unit was performing awfully against ATL's pressure. They took a game that looked like it was en route to a blowout W and let ATL back into it. We built the same lead again, and they blew it again. The bench minutes should have put the game away yesterday instead of giving up a big lead twice. We are way deeper than they are, putting 4 bench guys + OG/Mikal versus their staggered rotations gives them the bench unit advantage against us.

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Time is a flat circle

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I will say I dont think ive ever seen Brunson get stripped as many times as he did in that 4th. only had 3 TO's but it felt like alot more. a bit concerning how much he struggling against ATL's pressure.

he'll probably go for 40 on 12-18 next game and I still think we win in 5 but concerning because defenses will only get better.

Looked like there were always 4 defenders collapsed into the paint on Brunson drives. Either our spacing was bad or they are saying you can’t beat us with the 3 ball. Maybe they just recovery out to shooters very fast. I didn’t see a lot of open looks.

Playing double big + Hart certainly doesn’t help

DLeethal wrote:

Rookie wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I will say I dont think ive ever seen Brunson get stripped as many times as he did in that 4th. only had 3 TO's but it felt like alot more. a bit concerning how much he struggling against ATL's pressure.

he'll probably go for 40 on 12-18 next game and I still think we win in 5 but concerning because defenses will only get better.

Looked like there were always 4 defenders collapsed into the paint on Brunson drives. Either our spacing was bad or they are saying you can’t beat us with the 3 ball. Maybe they just recovery out to shooters very fast. I didn’t see a lot of open looks.

Playing double big + Hart certainly doesn’t help

This ain't the 90's any more

Everyone will disagree but:
1. Brunson, KAT and Hart entered with 7:56 left and Knicks up by 9. Bench was bad (particularly offensive initiating) but as Towns noted, bench wasn't on the floor when they lost this.
2. Can nitpick timeout use -- maybe a possession earlier and you don't call one at 2:43 after Bridges steal. But had 1 at 10 seconds, worked out perfect. Didn't have one at the end and instead of getting a set play they got a good look from Bridges. He missed. Happens. Brunson missed a lot in the 4th, too, OG blew 2 possessions in final 3 minutes, KAT and Hart were scoreless in the 4Q and Brunson has uncharacteristically struggled against defense focused on stopping him. Maybe he gets the ball and scores with Daniels/NAW doing everything they can to get it out of his hands - or maybe he gets doubled and someone gets a hand grenade with 1 second left.
3. Just make open shots and free throws and you're not in that position. Oh, and someone defend CJ.

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The Knicks as a team have looked uninterested for most of the game this season IMO

Detroit looked intense all season. Charlotte looked locked in until the play-in

The Knicks just don't and then when you need it the most, you lose to an undermined Atlanta team and give them a lot of confidence and life. No foot on throat. Too much nonchalance.

Like bring back the shaved look or black sneaks or something.

Blame it on the Always Knicks marketing garbage

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:I think it would be wise to play more Jose than Deuce this series and even playing Jose with Brunson more. They are loading up at the point of attack and we need more ball handling out there. That was evident the entire game even while we had a lead.

Kolek. I'd go Kolek for real

Or deuce w Jalen. At least deuce can hit a shot. Could also have mikal or hart

Smarter still pass the ball up court rather than dribble. Mimic Celtics

Trying to dribble up and bait for fouls just plays into their hands. Tires out Jalen, turnovers, disrupts any flow

DLeethal wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

martin wrote:

DLeethal wrote:Brunson was also terrible. You could see Brunson ball creeping in late and could almost feel where it was going.

100% feel the same. He and Brown, the 2 most important people during the game, fucked up big time.

KAT was BALLING and he was sidelined by Brunson. When all the Hawks had all the fouls too.

And neither could figure it out.

Jalen is uber talented. He does not have a good feel for running a team at a playoff level. He is a SG in a PG body.

You know what’s worse with Brunson?

That he is smart enough to know that this team is better when he passes and sometimes he does and we win. But when we win and he only has a high assist number and that’s it, it’s like if he can’t or won’t repeat that. I get that he is a shooter and clutch, but this is a team sport and our best version usually has someone else staring with him just providing clutch shots at the end.

Yesterday was like he wanted to will the team to win on his back and it was sad to see it when the talent around him does not need to be carried. KAT dominates and we win because KAT is unlike any other player. He can shoot the lights out, pass and his defense has been on point. His reward? Vanished from the 4th. That was mostly on Brunson and he did look ashamed of his decision-making, but I’m tired of that act. We saw that soooo many times during the season that it should’ve been fixed there. This team is like a freaking Dory fish from Finding Nemo that can’t retain any lesson.

Brown, I’m done with him. He was supposed to come here and make us improve. He experimented a lot during the season and I was ok because he was learning the team. But to come here in the postseason to experiment with trash lineups that make no sense and then not have the balls to control Brunson when he is hijacking the offense, your are a freaking clown. To even defend those lineups on the presser is ridiculous.

This team, man!! Whoever is rightfully frustrated with them today is not really because ofthe loss, but because this situation is the unwanted reminder that this team is still a mess after a full season together. This decision-making from Brown and Brunson is tough but tolerable during the season, but at this point? Gimme a freaking break! You have all the pieces to make this a dream run and you are too shortsighted to see how you are blowing it.

The team that has played so far this postseason would get historically embarrassed by Boston in the second round. You don’t think they are already salivating at the opportunity to get revenge on us while they keep improving their perfect act? This Knicks team is that dumb to think that their clown act can still get them somewhere in these playoffs? Boston is looking forward to humiliating you in Round 2 and you show that at this point you still aren’t on the same page?

Fuuuudge…

I would chill just a little bit. They looked worse after 2 games vs Detroit and beat a much better Celtics team. Knicks dominated for 7 out of 8 quarters of play. Sky is not falling at this current time. They just made things harder on themselves, which they are famous for doing.

Hey, if you can believe this, great for you. Really.

I just see the same inconsistent Jekyll and Hyde team that we’ve always been and the thing is that those teams always get bounced out of the playoffs. This time, the roster is so deep that it’s too frustrating to think that they are playing themselves into the same role as before.

I’m not saying that the sky is falling. It’s not about that with this team. It’s more about that frustrating mental roadblock that doesn’t go away no matter the coach and no matter the depth of the team. This team might be their best version in decades, and it could not matter because there seems to be a huge mentality issue here.

I don’t believe anything except that the sky isn’t falling yet. We got beat handily by Detroit for the bulk of two games at home last year and split 1-1. The situation was much less rosy at that stage than it is now. We went on to win 2 straight on the road and beat an elite Boston team.

So extrapolating these two games as a sign we would get destroyed by Boston doesn’t make sense to me.

Bringing up last season’s playoffs as some sort of proof that this year can work like that doesn’t make sense to me. Very, very different situations, including a very different Boston team.

And you are getting it wrong: I’m not extrapolating two games to say we would get destroyed by Boston. If you follow the discussion here, you will see that the concerns pointed out have been going on for the whole season, but of course, back then we just had to say that they had time to improve. Not anymore, as the playoffs have already started. So the fact that this team still seems to not know how to maximize their roster and keep an offense flowing under playoff defense pressure, at this point in time, that IS the actual problem.