Knicks · The really short off season for knicks! How to run it back? (page 18)

nycericanguy wrote:Wonder if we could just throw a 1 year $30m deal at MItch?

Thought about that at that exact contract lol. But the CBA don't want us to be great unfortunately

newyorknewyork wrote:

PatCummings wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

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I don’t blame them for wanting to stay below the second apron longer. Have to think about it long term and what’s sustainable. Although I’ll say moving deuce makes less sense because he’s so cheap you aren’t replacing his salary slot with a better player.

If the Knicks move Dadiet, they have a ton of wiggle room below the second apron. They can resign shamet for 6-7M per year starting. More than fair. They can fill out the remainder of the roster easily while staying below the second apron. They will have their starters plus a bench of Shamet, Alvarado, Deuce, Diawara, Kolek, plus they have enough to draft a player at 24, 31 and sign 2 minimum guys. So they can bring back Clarkson and either Sochan or Hukporti if they want. They could also make a move such as pick 24 for either Yves Missi or Ryan Kulkbrenner if they wanted to lock in a quality backup center replacement on a low contract. Again all of this while staying below the second apron.

I wouldn't be shocked if they are posturing to bring back Jose and Landry and therefore Deuce is expendable. I mentioned last night I think bringing back the full trio of Jose, Landry, Deuce makes little to no sense.

Retaining Jose, Landry, Mo and drafting the UCONN big + a vet min C would be a solid outcome in my view.

I don’t understand the hesitation to go above the 2nd apron. Losing Mitch as a FA is a waste of an asset. Go over the apron for 1 year while drafting his replacement. Then trade him next year to get under the apron and get more assets. Same for Alvarado, Shamet, etc.. And obviously keeping everyone increases our odds of repeating next year.

Knicks may end up being a 2nd apron team the early or final stages of when the Knicks extend KAT, Brunson, OG, Hart. They may be waiting for that window to be a 2nd apron team rather than doing so now.

Projected 2nd apron in 28-29 is $224(could end up being more but that's the number they are giving). KAT at $50mil(taking a massive discount), Brunson at $70mil(taking another discount), OG at $40mil(taking a discount), Hart at $16mil(discount), Mikal at $39mil with a PO the following . That would be $215mil just from the starting 5 if they all took those discounts. A guy like Mo would be lurking for his next contract. If he becomes the player we believe is. His price hike will probably force them to move on from Hart or Mikal when he due.

This is what I’m thinking. The Knicks just proved they can win a title without Mitch when you think about it. Signing Mitch and trading him next year sounds great, but what if he gets hurt? Now you have to attach a pick to offload him. He will no longer be on a good contract. It will be market value. And if you’re over the second apron next year, you can only go over one more time in a 5-year window. So now you’re up against a crunch for the rest of that window with everyone wanting an extension. I’m not opposed to going over, but I see more advantages to staying under right now since the only loss is Mitch. A big loss, yes, but this speaks more to my confidence in this front office to figure out how to replace him. I’m happy we won a title, and I want to continue with this group and make it as sustainable as possible. The rules are meant to prevent sustainability, and I want to work around that.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

nycericanguy wrote:I guess the 2nd apron situation is more complicated than I thought. Its not even really about the next 2 seasons, its more about the 2 seasons after that when the starters will need new contracts. If we go over the 2A these next 2 seasons, then we would REALLY have to make some difficult decisions later.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

That’s correct. We are basically choosing between Mitch now or an unknown starter 2-3 years from now. This is why the apron system was set up; to have to make these difficult decisions. And the Knicks aren’t a team that can do a hard reset. Our best players are all around 30 and we don’t have full control of first round picks until 2032. Are we really bringing back Mitch knowing we are shortening the window ?

nycericanguy wrote:I guess the 2nd apron situation is more complicated than I thought. Its not even really about the next 2 seasons, its more about the 2 seasons after that when the starters will need new contracts. If we go over the 2A these next 2 seasons, then we would REALLY have to make some difficult decisions later.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

the problem isnt spending money to get above the second apron. thats the easy part.

the problem is getting out of the second apron bc you basically cannot make any trades. since you, as the team above the second apron, cannot combine players to ship salaries out, you basically have to wait until the offseason to make trades. this means, there is no way to get rid of Yabusele mid season, no way to make a trade for Alvarado mid season.

aggo wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I guess the 2nd apron situation is more complicated than I thought. Its not even really about the next 2 seasons, its more about the 2 seasons after that when the starters will need new contracts. If we go over the 2A these next 2 seasons, then we would REALLY have to make some difficult decisions later.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

the problem isnt spending money to get above the second apron. thats the easy part.

the problem is getting out of the second apron bc you basically cannot make any trades. since you, as the team above the second apron, cannot combine players to ship salaries out, you basically have to wait until the offseason to make trades. this means, there is no way to get rid of Yabusele mid season, no way to make a trade for Alvarado mid season.

I mean thats not really the issue, this team isn't set up to make multi player trades. its a limiting factor, but the biggest issue is 2 years from now, not trade restrictions.

and then you give Landry shamet or mitch a 1yr deal and basically pray in '27-28 you will:

1/ have KAT decline and resign at a lower staring salary than his PO
2/ not resign Deuce
3/ not resign Dadiet

doing this *could* mean u can walk into the 27-28 cap year without having to make any trades to get under the second apron. but it also means the team probably wont be able to keep shamet and mitch long term anyway. so what's the point?

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I guess the 2nd apron situation is more complicated than I thought. Its not even really about the next 2 seasons, its more about the 2 seasons after that when the starters will need new contracts. If we go over the 2A these next 2 seasons, then we would REALLY have to make some difficult decisions later.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

That’s correct. We are basically choosing between Mitch now or an unknown starter 2-3 years from now. This is why the apron system was set up; to have to make these difficult decisions. And the Knicks aren’t a team that can do a hard reset. Our best players are all around 30 and we don’t have full control of first round picks until 2032. Are we really bringing back Mitch knowing we are shortening the window ?

i mean thats one way of looking at it, another way is alot can change in two years, and if you can extend the window NOW, you worry about later... well...later... because nothing is guaranteed. in 2 years for instance Hart will be entering his age 34 season, so who's to say we'd even want to resign him? KAT will be 32 going into his age 33 season also... no doubt we can extend him at a lower number at least, but how low? Will he even be worth 45m at that point?

so maybe going ALL IN for the next 2 years while the core is still in their primes is the best chance we might get to repeat. Tough decisions for sure.

The average salary for a backup center in the NBA typically ranges from $7 million to $12 million per year, frequently reflecting the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. Across the broader league context, overall player salaries vary, but this specific role is usually compensated well above the veteran minimum and near the league-wide median of roughly $4.9 million.

Salary Breakdown by Experience and

RoleVeteran Minimum: Backup centers with limited minutes or younger players on minimum contracts make between $1.5 million and $3.3 million, depending on their total years in the league.

Mid-Level Exception (MLE): Established, productive rotational bigs generally command the full non-taxpayer MLE.

High-End Rotation/Spot Starters: Younger, high-upside backup centers (or defensive specialists who can occasionally start) frequently earn $12 million to $16 million

Examples of Recent Backup Center ContractsZeke Nnaji (Denver Nuggets): Signed a 4-year, $32 million extension (average of $8 million per year).Onyeka Okongwu (Atlanta Hawks): Earns an annual salary of $15 million as a premium backup big. Nnaji (Denver Nuggets): Signed a 4-year, $32 million extension (average of $8 million per year).Onyeka Okongwu (Atlanta Hawks): Earns an annual salary of $15 million as a premium backup big.

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I guess the 2nd apron situation is more complicated than I thought. Its not even really about the next 2 seasons, its more about the 2 seasons after that when the starters will need new contracts. If we go over the 2A these next 2 seasons, then we would REALLY have to make some difficult decisions later.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

That’s correct. We are basically choosing between Mitch now or an unknown starter 2-3 years from now. This is why the apron system was set up; to have to make these difficult decisions. And the Knicks aren’t a team that can do a hard reset. Our best players are all around 30 and we don’t have full control of first round picks until 2032. Are we really bringing back Mitch knowing we are shortening the window ?

i mean thats one way of looking at it, another way is alot can change in two years, and if you can extend the window NOW, you worry about later... well...later... because nothing is guaranteed. in 2 years for instance Hart will be entering his age 34 season, so who's to say we'd even want to resign him? KAT will be 32 going into his age 33 season also... no doubt we can extend him at a lower number at least, but how low? Will he even be worth 45m at that point?

so maybe going ALL IN for the next 2 years while the core is still in their primes is the best chance we might get to repeat. Tough decisions for sure.

Yea idk enough about it but we just gotta trust Leon. I will say I don’t think extending all the starters into their mid 30s is really sound strategy. At some point you need to blend young with the old.

nycericanguy wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

nycericanguy wrote:I guess the 2nd apron situation is more complicated than I thought. Its not even really about the next 2 seasons, its more about the 2 seasons after that when the starters will need new contracts. If we go over the 2A these next 2 seasons, then we would REALLY have to make some difficult decisions later.

So it might be lose Mitch now or potentially lose one of the top 5 guys in 2 years.

I trust Leon here. I suspect we might be trading Deuce and or Dadiet for some more room.

I also think that maybe MO can be a small ball 5 next season for us.

That’s correct. We are basically choosing between Mitch now or an unknown starter 2-3 years from now. This is why the apron system was set up; to have to make these difficult decisions. And the Knicks aren’t a team that can do a hard reset. Our best players are all around 30 and we don’t have full control of first round picks until 2032. Are we really bringing back Mitch knowing we are shortening the window ?

i mean thats one way of looking at it, another way is alot can change in two years, and if you can extend the window NOW, you worry about later... well...later... because nothing is guaranteed. in 2 years for instance Hart will be entering his age 34 season, so who's to say we'd even want to resign him? KAT will be 32 going into his age 33 season also... no doubt we can extend him at a lower number at least, but how low? Will he even be worth 45m at that point?

so maybe going ALL IN for the next 2 years while the core is still in their primes is the best chance we might get to repeat. Tough decisions for sure.

Yup these are great points too. This is the dilemma. I just have a ton of faith in this front office to make the right decision. And because of that, I fully believe the front office can turn over every stone and find Mitchell Robinson replacement whether it’s one player or multiple. Put that player in place of Mitch and make the same title run. I have to think they have decided what they want to do (Ian begley seems to think they will stay below the 2A) but maybe they are using the draft to dictate that decision still. Who knows.

Rookie wrote:I’ll just drop this here

The average salary for a backup center in the NBA typically ranges from $7 million to $12 million per year, frequently reflecting the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. Across the broader league context, overall player salaries vary, but this specific role is usually compensated well above the veteran minimum and near the league-wide median of roughly $4.9 million.

Salary Breakdown by Experience and

RoleVeteran Minimum: Backup centers with limited minutes or younger players on minimum contracts make between $1.5 million and $3.3 million, depending on their total years in the league.

Mid-Level Exception (MLE): Established, productive rotational bigs generally command the full non-taxpayer MLE.

High-End Rotation/Spot Starters: Younger, high-upside backup centers (or defensive specialists who can occasionally start) frequently earn $12 million to $16 million

Examples of Recent Backup Center ContractsZeke Nnaji (Denver Nuggets): Signed a 4-year, $32 million extension (average of $8 million per year).Onyeka Okongwu (Atlanta Hawks): Earns an annual salary of $15 million as a premium backup big. Nnaji (Denver Nuggets): Signed a 4-year, $32 million extension (average of $8 million per year).Onyeka Okongwu (Atlanta Hawks): Earns an annual salary of $15 million as a premium backup big.

thing is, even if Mitch took $8m per year that still puts us in the 2A, so its not even about how much he makes.

nycericanguy wrote:

Rookie wrote:I’ll just drop this here

The average salary for a backup center in the NBA typically ranges from $7 million to $12 million per year, frequently reflecting the non-taxpayer mid-level exception. Across the broader league context, overall player salaries vary, but this specific role is usually compensated well above the veteran minimum and near the league-wide median of roughly $4.9 million.

Salary Breakdown by Experience and

RoleVeteran Minimum: Backup centers with limited minutes or younger players on minimum contracts make between $1.5 million and $3.3 million, depending on their total years in the league.

Mid-Level Exception (MLE): Established, productive rotational bigs generally command the full non-taxpayer MLE.

High-End Rotation/Spot Starters: Younger, high-upside backup centers (or defensive specialists who can occasionally start) frequently earn $12 million to $16 million

Examples of Recent Backup Center ContractsZeke Nnaji (Denver Nuggets): Signed a 4-year, $32 million extension (average of $8 million per year).Onyeka Okongwu (Atlanta Hawks): Earns an annual salary of $15 million as a premium backup big. Nnaji (Denver Nuggets): Signed a 4-year, $32 million extension (average of $8 million per year).Onyeka Okongwu (Atlanta Hawks): Earns an annual salary of $15 million as a premium backup big.

thing is, even if Mitch took $8m per year that still puts us in the 2A, so its not even about how much he makes.

Yeah, you can’t get a little bit pregnant.

This feels reasonable and we have the ability to make changes, assuming KAT does the extension at $200M. I don’t understand the rumors about us needing to trade our picks to save $.

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns (Ext.) | $46,000,000
OG Anunoby | $42,500,000
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $10,000,000
Jose Alvarado | $8,500,000
Miles McBride | $3,956,523
Pacome Dadiet | $2,983,680
Ariel Hukporti | $2,650,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tyler Kolek | $2,486,995
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Draft Pick #24 | $2,800,000
Draft Pick #31 | $1,400,000
TOTAL PAYROLL | $220,208,257
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $1,791,743

DLeethal wrote:Honestly kind of feels that the Knicks maybe just don’t want to resign Mitch at his number and/or don’t think he’s worth going into the apron for.

You’re probably right. I just posted a roster without Mitch and it’s not that hard to stay under the 2nd apron as long as KAT extends on a favorable deal (4 yrs / $200M). Without that, we’d have to get creative to keep Shamet and Alvarado. It’s likely possible but then we’re probably trading the bigger contracts like Deuce and Dadiet and maybe trading the first round pick to roster cheap 2nd rounders

I’m not sure if that’s worth it. There are lots of senior PGs like Jaden Bradley that can be had in the 2nd round who can compete with Kolek to backup Brunson.

PatCummings wrote:Here’s an example of how we can stay under the 2nd apron by not signing Mitch, extending KAT at 4 years / $200M backloaded, bringing back Shamet, Alvarado, Huk, McCullar and drafting at 24 and 31. I assumed $10M for Shamet and $8.5M for Alvarado and still have a buffer of $1.7M. I kept Deuce, and Dadiet but we could trade them to save $

This feels reasonable and we have the ability to make changes, assuming KAT does the extension at $200M. I don’t understand the rumors about us needing to trade our picks to save $.

PLAYER | 2026-27 SALARY
Karl-Anthony Towns (Ext.) | $46,000,000
OG Anunoby | $42,500,000
Jalen Brunson | $37,739,521
Mikal Bridges | $33,482,145
Josh Hart | $20,923,760
Landry Shamet | $10,000,000
Jose Alvarado | $8,500,000
Miles McBride | $3,956,523
Pacome Dadiet | $2,983,680
Ariel Hukporti | $2,650,000
Mohamed Diawara | $2,600,000
Tyler Kolek | $2,486,995
Kevin McCullar Jr. | $2,185,633
Draft Pick #24 | $2,800,000
Draft Pick #31 | $1,400,000
TOTAL PAYROLL | $220,208,257
2ND APRON THRESHOLD | $222,000,000
BUFFER REMAINING | $1,791,743

Take a look at what KAT makes this upcoming year. And also assuming Jose at 4.5M. Your KAT and Jose numbers wouldn’t kick in this upcoming year. You have to account for what KATs contract is now since it’s already locked in.

DLeethal wrote:Honestly kind of feels that the Knicks maybe just don’t want to resign Mitch at his number and/or don’t think he’s worth going into the apron for.