Knicks · The really short off season for knicks! How to run it back? (page 3)
aggo wrote:The safe thing is to run it back and go into the second apron
The brave thing is to trade mikal as a sideways move to get under the second apron and make another bet on a rising player
I don’t see them moving on from any of the core 5 until after next season.
EwingsGlass wrote:I’d lean into that KAT-initiated offensive set. Become less reliant on the iso-heavy set. It’s good to have at the end of shot clocks, but I’d be pushing the KAT : Jokic narrative next year. Brunson already built the Brunson : Curry comparison.Evolve. Not rebuild.
I’m looking for a positionally sized PF that is a 3&D. Not to replace Hart, but over time to allow the Knicks to use positionally sized 5 out sets.
Diawara could be that guy. But I’d need him to take a 4 year contract at 4mm a year or so. A Deuce type contract.
Leaning into KAT initiating makes sense. McCullar has demonstrated some Point Forward skills for Westchester and I’m hoping he gets a chance to compete for the rotation.
If Diawara signs that type of contract that would be amazing. It should allow us to also keep Shamet and Mitch and go over the 2nd apron.
Rookie wrote:PatCummings wrote:TripleThreat wrote:Rookie wrote:Chandler wrote:for the life of me I don't see Mitch as a bottom dollar guy; a fair offer and he stays.I believe Mitchel will get a fair offer, the best we can give and he will stay. He is my priority. His elite defense and rim protection should be overshadowed by the missed free throws. Plus, he’s goofy as hell, fits with this group and just seems like an all around good guy……and loves dogs and trucks😁
The practical situation is this - The five core players from this championship season are all in their 30s. In basic terms, the Knicks get one more season with this core and that's likely it.
Big men do not age at the same relative rate as other position players. Their decline phase is typically much faster and they fall harder. That being said, KAT has floor spacing ability and that's a huge plus. I think the Knicks would be happy to have him for one more season. Then he's too risky to hold onto, they should IMHO let him walk after that.
I love Josh Hart. Everyone loves Josh Hart. He's a critical player for this SPECIFIC franchise. But he's an energy guy and a glue guy and that's a big ask at 22 million a season, with his attrition and age range. Again, one more season is great. After that, I believe the Knicks are better off letting him go.
Anonuby will have a much softer decline phase. Mikal Bridges cost way too many draft picks to let go now. Do I think he was worth 5 first round picks? I believe a championship was worth 5 first round picks, but no other GM in the entire league would have made that deal and there's a reason for that. Brunson I believe will get a "make good" deal from this franchise as a reward for this championship. He's earned the right to be the face of this franchise, even in his decline phase. I don't think his decline will be very pretty to be honest.
If you only have one more season, next season, with this core, then the team, IMHO, is better off seeking outside help that either have deep rapport with the "NovaCorps" pathway OR have some established history with Mike Brown ( either Sacto or his last few years at Golden State), so there's some built in synergy at work, you don't have to start just from scratch.
Mitch Robinson has to be viewed, IMHO, in a VORP perspective. Value Over Replacement Player. Can you get some defense and rim protection, maybe 65-70 percent of what MRob gives you, if he's healthy ( that's a big "IF") at 25-30 percent of the cost? The changes in the CBA make it harder for contenders to get buy out players at the end of the season as "ring chasers" If that avenue was still open, the Spurs would have had more help to hurt the Knicks to be honest.
MRob was invaluable as depth as the Spurs really had no pivots to back up Wemby. But that was for this season and for a very specific matchup. Can he space the floor for you and create gravity? He cannot. So unless he comes back cheap, I believe you let him walk. The Knicks will be outbid and outpriced for Shamet so say goodbye now. But Shamet really was a huge help for this team. But still, the situation doesn't line up again well for a return.
If the Knicks do not repeat next season, the "window" is closed. Their best chance is to take the Eastern Conference, which is still in a fair amount of disarray, and hope for another favorable slate of matchups against specific Western teams that don't mesh well against the Knicks roster.
That's it guys. One more year. One more good run in this team. I certainly love this team, but no one is going to want to love this team as the core roster enters their mid 30s. Brunson, out of respect, and Anonuby, sure and fine. Mikal Bridges is more of a political / perception situation in terms of keeping him longer, but expect Hart and KAT to be gone after next year. If KAT buckles at not getting an extension? Then you trade him. Sad as that sounds. But seems like he wants to try one more year with this core roster.
IMHO, Donte D should be the main target this offseason. They'll need another backup pivot at a cheaper cost. Can they get a Stretch 5? I doubt it, but if they can get 15 minutes a game of league average rim protection with some rim running, that will work. It's not ideal, but it's enough.
If you can get a mini breakout from Diawara and pick up Donte D plus Payton II, that looks strong to me. Not perfect, but strong. You hope someone like Kyle Lowry is willing to give this team maybe 7-8 minutes a game as a backup floor general. That too would be ideal.
None of the Knicks five core guys were drafted by them. Four were trades and Brunson was a street free agent who signed into empty cap space at a huge discount. Team construction this way is never built for longevity. The OKC Thunder as currently constructed are built for a window of about 4-5 years. But that's not this team. This is not a "dynasty" team, it was and is a great current team though, one that we love, but it's not built for distance.
They’re a bit younger than that but I get your point. We have an opportunity in this draft to find young talent. Can we draft well, go over the 2nd apron this year, hopefully repeat and then trade guys like Mitch, Shamet, Alvarado, Hart?, KAT? to get safely under the apron and acquire young talent / draft capital?
The wildcard here is a trade for the freak.
That seems to be off the table after winning the title.
PatCummings wrote:They’re a bit younger than that but I get your point. We have an opportunity in this draft to find young talent. Can we draft well, go over the 2nd apron this year, hopefully repeat and then trade guys like Mitch, Shamet, Alvarado, Hart?, KAT? to get safely under the apron and acquire young talent / draft capital?
Hart is signed for the 26-27 season, for 27-28, it's a team option
KAT is signed for the 26-27 season ( at a huge cap hit), then for 27-28, he has a player option
I don't see a huge problem running out the core 5 players again, give it a honeymoon season, let the fans enjoy this core roster for one more season, hope the fracture points for the Eastern Conference operates as a smooth ride to another Finals appearance. And hope for a little luck with health/no injuries and matchups. It would be bad business to break up the core 5 players now. New York is riding on a high, and the Knicks are riding on a high. Let everyone have that for another year.
But this is a relatively thin free agency class this offseason, meaning there will likely be decent offers for MRob and Shamet out there. The appeal of those players is they don't come with a trade cost. Trying to sign them now, likely on multiple year deals ( and I believe Shamet has earned it, just not from the Knicks to be honest) then trade them in a year, that's a big ask to pull off. There's a lot of guesswork there on if there is even a fit for salary matching or into empty cap space for a team that could use one of those players. If one or both is willing to come back very cheap, I'd say look at it, but from a projectible standpoint, both will likely get more money in offers than from the Knicks and walk, and the Knicks should let them walk. I think MRob will be the hardest decision for the Knicks this offseason because he has long tenure with the team. A player can develop an effective three point shot after they are drafted. It's not impossible, it's happened before. Even non superstar players. If MRob wanted a good solid 3-4 year extension this offseason, he should have developed an effective three point shot while in his time with Knicks. He didn't, so too bad for him. Sucks to say it, but he had his chance to make himself more valuable, and he didn't, or couldn't.
It's hard to say if Hart will be worth 22 million in 27-28, but since it's a team option without a buyout, he's useful salary ballast in a potential trade. Energy guys/Glue guys don't age well either. They take a huge beating and it's an attrition based role. I love Josh Hart as a fan. But he's got a ton of mileage on him. I think he's got one more good season of his current juice, then I think that's it.
With Towns, I say use this season as another "Prove It" season, see if his changes and adjustments are more than a short trend/reaction to the passing of family ( obviously tragic) Depending on what he might ask for in an extension in 27-28
Alvarado is worth more than his current player option, but let's see how this plays out.
The bench for this current season is completely expendable IMHO, except for the very young players like Diawara.
I forgot Donte D is hurt. Well, scratch that then and hope for a reunion in 27-28 maybe, as Bridges and Brunson will still be on the roster then.
Next season is a "go for broke" moment. Usually I talk about building through the draft, carefully mining assets, taking fliers on UDFA, etc, etc.
However next season is the season you take chances on ring chasers and high risk/high reward types. I would never say take in a Cam Thomas in most years, but next season is the season, when you want to repeat, that you do it. Normally I'd say don't give Kyle Lowry a roster spot when you hope to mine the next Lu Dort or Alex Caruso or Diawara, but on a contention run for a repeat, you worry about getting that good 5-7 minutes of backup guard play over development. The Knicks should have, IIRC, the 24th pick in the upcoming draft, if there's a decent pathway to grab a veteran for that pick, then you take that risk.
IMHO, there are good risks and bad risks. Giving MRob a 3 or 4 year extension is a bad risk. Taking one season fliers on Gary Payton II, Kyle Lowry, Cam Thomas, Yuki Kawamura, etc, those are what I see as good risks.
Cam Thomas a good take. LIke a head coach fired, take on being an assistant and build a resume on a good team before coming back for a prime time role. He can be a Jamal Murray type? Maybe he never reaches that level but can carve out a really good career otherwise?
For someone like Hart he might need to think about how his career ends. He has the money but in time his game and body will wear down. Hard for anyone to say other than him but I'd hope he can go out on his own terms.
martin wrote:DDV makes $12.5m next year and will probably miss the regular season cause of Achilles tear. Not sure he makes sense to be a target.
I bet we get him as a free agent next summer.
As for the rotation players for this season, these players are FAs after this season.
Big Mitch
Clarkson
Shamet
Hukporti
Diawara
Sochan
McCullar
I need Big Mitch signed.
I need Diawara signed to a Deuce type contract.
Same with McCullar.
I think Shamet played himself out of the vet min.
Sign Clarkson for vet min.
Sochan for vet min for a prove it contract.
I think Huk also played himself out what we can afford for a 3rd string center.
Kelly Oubre is an unrestricted FA after making 8.3m this season and passes the vibe check.
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Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.
McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?
Nalod wrote:Cam Thomas a good take. LIke a head coach fired, take on being an assistant and build a resume on a good team before coming back for a prime time role. He can be a Jamal Murray type?
If Cam Thomas is playing 30 minutes a night for a team, that's a team in a world of hurt. He can shoot you into a game, but for every game he's doing that, he's likely to shoot you out of two more. On the plus side, in a marginal sense, he's gotten better every year he's been in the league. It's just that uptick is ... well... marginal. At least he's putting in work. Where he is valuable, if you can limit him to about 10 minutes a game, is he can consistently create his own shot and get to the rim. The Knicks desperately need to give Brunson some offensive relief. Brunson needs to log fewer regular season minutes, to stay fresh for the playoffs and reduce chance of injury, but the Knicks need a part times shot creator who can hold a lead or keep New York in a close game. The Knicks are one of the few teams with enough defense and defensive versatility and synergy to hide a Cam Thomas for ten minutes a night.
Mike Brown was the defensive coordinator for the 2022 champion Warriors. He saw, first hand, the impact Jordan Poole had on that team. Sure, he was kind of a moron and loved the limelight a little too much, but he offered relief for Steph Curry as the offensive engine for stretches. Poole could generate offense and get to the rim. Defenses had to respect Poole's ability and skill set and that opened up the offense. There are players in this league who are a weapon at 5-6 minute a game and a total act of pure self sabotage and a lock to get your coach fired if they get 25-30 minutes a game because there's no one else.
This is not the time to worry about helping Kolek be a better player two years from now. This is not the time to worry about drafting the center of the future at the 24th pick. This is the time to hunt veterans with a limited version of cost certainty, that can try to keep the core 5 fresh for the playoffs next year. Look at how badly not having a solid bench hurt the Spurs against the Knicks. The Knicks don't want to be in that position themselves.
There are a few fringe benefits of being the most recent champion. Ring chasers are going to pause when you want to talk to them. The Knicks need to exploit that while they have the juice for it.
Nalod wrote:Sochan is a very interesting player. Maybe we are not giving him the credit for being key in how we managed wemby.
Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?
The Knicks could have released McCullar any time over the past 2 years but instead chose to help him back from a major bone bruise knee injury after drafting him and then also gave him super ample opportunity in the GLeague. I could be 100% wrong on this guess but I think the Knicks regard him high on their Keep list.
POA defender that is a legit 6'5+, so bigger than Dylan Harper and same size as Stephen Castle but more slithery than strong than those guys. He is a secondary ball handler and facilitator (although both need to be proved at the NBA level), much much better than Deuce. His close to basket and mid range is solid and he has a lot to prove from distance.
In the GLeague, they often gave him the ball as a PG and let him do whatever, pass, shoot, TO and just let him go. Same with Dadiet to a lesser degree. Huk I think dominated his times in the GLeague so much that it wasn't really worthwhile (similar to Kolek) but I could be wrong on that one.
Knicks IMO will do a min deal with him and he'll overplay that contract by a lot.
FA Big men: Kessler, Duren, Hartenstein, M.Williams, J.Collins, Vooch, Robert Williams, Porzingis, Lopez, Looney, Wagner, Nurkic.
As well as trade candidates Allen, Ayton, Gafford, Gobert, Embiid, Sabonis.
Looking at it. Mitch's value is pretty much the same contract he currently holds. Slight increase on the Knicks end.
He'd be really hard to replace with anything close. That is unless Hartenstein finds his way back here (can sign and trade scenarios work here - would OKC want to bring him in as their antidote to the emerging Spurs threat?).
If you can bring everyone back, maybe pay extra on frontloaded deals for next season, I'd love that. But there are financial forces at play, and we have a really expensive top 6 salaries (especially if Mitch gets paid)
I would say I loved the Knicks roster make up this year. I think in 2024-2025 we overindexed in rookies and in the playoffs we didn't have game-ready players to plug in. This season, our young guys were more prepared (Kolek was a huge part of many games before we picked up Alvarado - I think Kolek would have done great if he were called instead of Alvarado or McBride in the finals; Hukporti provided some extremely valuable emergency minutes; Diawara put in some great minutes during the regular season). The youthful energy and enthusiasm is infectious and can't be discounted.
UFA's:
1) Clarkson - nice player, but he's sort of complete duplication of role for Deuce. It's like your backup for your backup.
2) Sochan - I'm sort of torn on this, but he was never really fully integrated into the system. On PAPER he's a big player (6'8") who was being groomed as a PG as recently as last season, before the Spurs saw what a diaster it was and replaced him with Fox, Castle, and Harper. :) In another era, maybe he's the next Pippen. In this era, who knows how he fits in. It's sort of a fascinating twist, how the Spurs released him and let him become a UFA - only to be snapped up by the Knicks. I'd like to think his knowledge of SA's system and his defense on Wemby for a few plays was another piece that tilted the series in our favor. I like his size as a backup PF (tho wish he was an inch taller for that); he brings a lot as a modern forward except for shooting...
3) Shamet - Oh boy, so so clutch. Such a good 3&D player. Really good player overall. If he went over to Europe, he might be something like Evan Fournier. :) I don't see a lot of difference between the value of him and something like Devin Vassell, especially when you knock down Vassell to your 4th or 5th option on offense. It's really about what roles players are given. In any case, I'd like to see this guy get some real money. He's too good (and too much in his prime) to be sacrificing on a near min contract. I'd love to have him back but ultimately there are probably other replacements who can give you the numbers and minutes. But boy he was so, so clutch at times in the playoffs. Not a lot of drop off between the 4th/5th option version of Bridges and him.
Player Options:
1) Alvarado - love his tenacity. But we do already have Kolek on board and under contract. Reasons why he'd stay? Depends on his market value - and whether hometown loyalty weighs heavily on him. His lack of height and slight build make him a questionable target from other teams for starter minutes.
On to the RFAs:
1) Hukporti - nice dev center. He might even put up numbers if he were on a bad team. If you can keep him cheap, do it - familiarity is important so we don't need to start from scratch. On the other hand, there are some great league minimum vet center available. Best one I can think of is DeAndre Jordan. Plus the Spurs had 2 stashed on their bench: Olynyk (sort of a poor man's KAT with his 3pt range) and Mason Plumlee (excellent court vision and passer). As 3rd stringers, these guys are fantastic. As direct replacements for Mitch, we should be very worried.
2) Diawara - We sort of seem him becoming a starting quality forward one day. And at the moment, he looks like a better prospect as a SF-ish player than Dadiet. Both are so young and they've had the benefit of experiencing this title and learning from our starters. But the nature of the beast is that championship teams never age gracefully and the handoff to the next generation is never so ideal and smooth. (The Warriors inability to develop a new young stud to help out the aging cast has been an issue for what feels like almost a decade. Harrison Barnes was supposed to be that guy. Jonathan Kuminga was supposed to be that guy.). So as much as I think he's our best young prospect, he's also expendable since we have a few others like Dadiet who is under contract and at least on paper can do similar things.
3) McCullar Jr - Like what we've seen, but he can be easily replaced by similar prospects at this current stage of his career. I mean, come on, Alec Burks is available!
4) Jemison - Also liked him in limited work. man this guy is a physical specimen. Great 4th string muscle.
5) Jones - ?!? who knows what he's capable of.
TripleThreat wrote:PatCummings wrote:They’re a bit younger than that but I get your point. We have an opportunity in this draft to find young talent. Can we draft well, go over the 2nd apron this year, hopefully repeat and then trade guys like Mitch, Shamet, Alvarado, Hart?, KAT? to get safely under the apron and acquire young talent / draft capital?
Hart is signed for the 26-27 season, for 27-28, it's a team optionKAT is signed for the 26-27 season ( at a huge cap hit), then for 27-28, he has a player option
I don't see a huge problem running out the core 5 players again, give it a honeymoon season, let the fans enjoy this core roster for one more season, hope the fracture points for the Eastern Conference operates as a smooth ride to another Finals appearance. And hope for a little luck with health/no injuries and matchups. It would be bad business to break up the core 5 players now. New York is riding on a high, and the Knicks are riding on a high. Let everyone have that for another year.
But this is a relatively thin free agency class this offseason, meaning there will likely be decent offers for MRob and Shamet out there. The appeal of those players is they don't come with a trade cost. Trying to sign them now, likely on multiple year deals ( and I believe Shamet has earned it, just not from the Knicks to be honest) then trade them in a year, that's a big ask to pull off. There's a lot of guesswork there on if there is even a fit for salary matching or into empty cap space for a team that could use one of those players. If one or both is willing to come back very cheap, I'd say look at it, but from a projectible standpoint, both will likely get more money in offers than from the Knicks and walk, and the Knicks should let them walk. I think MRob will be the hardest decision for the Knicks this offseason because he has long tenure with the team. A player can develop an effective three point shot after they are drafted. It's not impossible, it's happened before. Even non superstar players. If MRob wanted a good solid 3-4 year extension this offseason, he should have developed an effective three point shot while in his time with Knicks. He didn't, so too bad for him. Sucks to say it, but he had his chance to make himself more valuable, and he didn't, or couldn't.
It's hard to say if Hart will be worth 22 million in 27-28, but since it's a team option without a buyout, he's useful salary ballast in a potential trade. Energy guys/Glue guys don't age well either. They take a huge beating and it's an attrition based role. I love Josh Hart as a fan. But he's got a ton of mileage on him. I think he's got one more good season of his current juice, then I think that's it.
With Towns, I say use this season as another "Prove It" season, see if his changes and adjustments are more than a short trend/reaction to the passing of family ( obviously tragic) Depending on what he might ask for in an extension in 27-28
Alvarado is worth more than his current player option, but let's see how this plays out.
The bench for this current season is completely expendable IMHO, except for the very young players like Diawara.
I forgot Donte D is hurt. Well, scratch that then and hope for a reunion in 27-28 maybe, as Bridges and Brunson will still be on the roster then.
Next season is a "go for broke" moment. Usually I talk about building through the draft, carefully mining assets, taking fliers on UDFA, etc, etc.
However next season is the season you take chances on ring chasers and high risk/high reward types. I would never say take in a Cam Thomas in most years, but next season is the season, when you want to repeat, that you do it. Normally I'd say don't give Kyle Lowry a roster spot when you hope to mine the next Lu Dort or Alex Caruso or Diawara, but on a contention run for a repeat, you worry about getting that good 5-7 minutes of backup guard play over development. The Knicks should have, IIRC, the 24th pick in the upcoming draft, if there's a decent pathway to grab a veteran for that pick, then you take that risk.
IMHO, there are good risks and bad risks. Giving MRob a 3 or 4 year extension is a bad risk. Taking one season fliers on Gary Payton II, Kyle Lowry, Cam Thomas, Yuki Kawamura, etc, those are what I see as good risks.
Totally agree in bringing back the core 5 for next year. If we can’t / don’t want to pay to resign Mitch and Shamet, that at least gives us better odds at keeping Diawara. But I think the only way we can bring in vets is on min salaries
I’d prefer to use the picks on guys like Zuby / Reed who are seniors with NBA bodies and ready to contribute day 1
martin wrote:Nalod wrote:Sochan is a very interesting player. Maybe we are not giving him the credit for being key in how we managed wemby.
Cuz knicks did. Perhaps a bit of insight to his tendancies not caught on tape but in practice?
curious if he sticks. Perhaps he is a back up project if Diawra bolts? Or, sloted to be OG's understudy?
Sochan as we discussed week or so ago was Pop's point forward experiemnt that did not work.McCullar? I kind of get the fan support but can just as easliy see him being released? If no clear role for him here maybe he wants to leave for an other opportunity if such exists. We drafting? We trading the picks up? Down?
The Knicks could have released McCullar any time over the past 2 years but instead chose to help him back from a major bone bruise knee injury after drafting him and then also gave him super ample opportunity in the GLeague. I could be 100% wrong on this guess but I think the Knicks regard him high on their Keep list.
POA defender that is a legit 6'5+, so bigger than Dylan Harper and same size as Stephen Castle but more slithery than strong than those guys. He is a secondary ball handler and facilitator (although both need to be proved at the NBA level), much much better than Deuce. His close to basket and mid range is solid and he has a lot to prove from distance.
In the GLeague, they often gave him the ball as a PG and let him do whatever, pass, shoot, TO and just let him go. Same with Dadiet to a lesser degree. Huk I think dominated his times in the GLeague so much that it wasn't really worthwhile (similar to Kolek) but I could be wrong on that one.
Knicks IMO will do a min deal with him and he'll overplay that contract by a lot.
Totally agree on McCullar. He will get a chance to be part of the rotation and I hope he succeeds. The point forward part of his game would be helpful.
technomaster wrote:I'd like to see the Knicks bring everyone back for another run. Mitchell Robinson is the most critical piece by a wide margin, at least in my book. Outside of Wemby, he's quietly one of the most game-changing defensive weapons in the league when he's on the floor. Other teams see Mitch in the game and it changes how they attack the basket. On the other end, he remains one of the most imposing offense rebounds in the game today. Sure he has his flaws (FT shooting, unwillingness to take a jumper), but the eye test and advanced stats really say he's a high impact player. And a critical piece in tandem for KAT as we saw in the finals. If you give him starter minutes, he performs like a monster, but with more minutes he becomes a greater injury risk.He'd be really hard to replace with anything close. That is unless Hartenstein finds his way back here (can sign and trade scenarios work here - would OKC want to bring him in as their antidote to the emerging Spurs threat?).
If you can bring everyone back, maybe pay extra on frontloaded deals for next season, I'd love that. But there are financial forces at play, and we have a really expensive top 6 salaries (especially if Mitch gets paid)
I would say I loved the Knicks roster make up this year. I think in 2024-2025 we overindexed in rookies and in the playoffs we didn't have game-ready players to plug in. This season, our young guys were more prepared (Kolek was a huge part of many games before we picked up Alvarado - I think Kolek would have done great if he were called instead of Alvarado or McBride in the finals; Hukporti provided some extremely valuable emergency minutes; Diawara put in some great minutes during the regular season). The youthful energy and enthusiasm is infectious and can't be discounted.
UFA's:
1) Clarkson - nice player, but he's sort of complete duplication of role for Deuce. It's like your backup for your backup.
2) Sochan - I'm sort of torn on this, but he was never really fully integrated into the system. On PAPER he's a big player (6'8") who was being groomed as a PG as recently as last season, before the Spurs saw what a diaster it was and replaced him with Fox, Castle, and Harper. :) In another era, maybe he's the next Pippen. In this era, who knows how he fits in. It's sort of a fascinating twist, how the Spurs released him and let him become a UFA - only to be snapped up by the Knicks. I'd like to think his knowledge of SA's system and his defense on Wemby for a few plays was another piece that tilted the series in our favor. I like his size as a backup PF (tho wish he was an inch taller for that); he brings a lot as a modern forward except for shooting...
3) Shamet - Oh boy, so so clutch. Such a good 3&D player. Really good player overall. If he went over to Europe, he might be something like Evan Fournier. :) I don't see a lot of difference between the value of him and something like Devin Vassell, especially when you knock down Vassell to your 4th or 5th option on offense. It's really about what roles players are given. In any case, I'd like to see this guy get some real money. He's too good (and too much in his prime) to be sacrificing on a near min contract. I'd love to have him back but ultimately there are probably other replacements who can give you the numbers and minutes. But boy he was so, so clutch at times in the playoffs. Not a lot of drop off between the 4th/5th option version of Bridges and him.Player Options:
1) Alvarado - love his tenacity. But we do already have Kolek on board and under contract. Reasons why he'd stay? Depends on his market value - and whether hometown loyalty weighs heavily on him. His lack of height and slight build make him a questionable target from other teams for starter minutes.On to the RFAs:
1) Hukporti - nice dev center. He might even put up numbers if he were on a bad team. If you can keep him cheap, do it - familiarity is important so we don't need to start from scratch. On the other hand, there are some great league minimum vet center available. Best one I can think of is DeAndre Jordan. Plus the Spurs had 2 stashed on their bench: Olynyk (sort of a poor man's KAT with his 3pt range) and Mason Plumlee (excellent court vision and passer). As 3rd stringers, these guys are fantastic. As direct replacements for Mitch, we should be very worried.
2) Diawara - We sort of seem him becoming a starting quality forward one day. And at the moment, he looks like a better prospect as a SF-ish player than Dadiet. Both are so young and they've had the benefit of experiencing this title and learning from our starters. But the nature of the beast is that championship teams never age gracefully and the handoff to the next generation is never so ideal and smooth. (The Warriors inability to develop a new young stud to help out the aging cast has been an issue for what feels like almost a decade. Harrison Barnes was supposed to be that guy. Jonathan Kuminga was supposed to be that guy.). So as much as I think he's our best young prospect, he's also expendable since we have a few others like Dadiet who is under contract and at least on paper can do similar things.
3) McCullar Jr - Like what we've seen, but he can be easily replaced by similar prospects at this current stage of his career. I mean, come on, Alec Burks is available!
4) Jemison - Also liked him in limited work. man this guy is a physical specimen. Great 4th string muscle.
5) Jones - ?!? who knows what he's capable of.
Maybe it’s me but I don’t see Mitch as that game changing defender that he was in the past. I think the injuries have taken its toll. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a strong defender and offensive rebounder. I’m not sure that Mitch was even better defensively in the playoffs than KAT.
If the New York Knicks spend two years significantly over the second apron to re-sign Mitchell Robinson and Landry Shamet, but successfully duck under it before the "three-out-of-five-years" repeater clock triggers, they will activate immediate transactional, roster-building, and draft-pick penalties. However, they will avoid the most severe downstream punishments.The exact penalties they would activate are detailed below.
1. The Draft Pick Penalties (The "Frozen" Pick)Because the Knicks would finish consecutive seasons over the second apron, their draft picks would be heavily impacted under the NBA Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA):The 7-Year Out Pick is Frozen: The moment the Knicks finish Year 1 over the second apron, their first-round draft pick seven years into the future becomes frozen. They are legally barred from trading it.The 8-Year Out Pick is Frozen: The moment they finish Year 2 over the second apron, that year's corresponding seven-years-out pick (which is now 8 years out from the initial jump) also freezes.How They Avoid the Worst (The Drop): If a team stays above the second apron for 3 out of 5 seasons, their frozen pick automatically drops to the very end of the first round (Pick No. 30). Because the Knicks pull back and get under the second apron for Year 3, they avoid having their picks automatically dropped to No. 30.Unfreezing: By staying under the second apron for 3 out of the next 4 seasons, those frozen picks will eventually unfreeze and become tradable again.
2. Immediate Roster & Trade Penalties (While Over the Apron)During those 2 years spent over the second apron, the Knicks' front office would be operating with "handcuffs" on all roster adjustments:No Salary Aggregation: The Knicks cannot combine two or more players' salaries to trade for a higher-salaried player.No Cash in Trades: They cannot send any cash to other teams in trade deals.No Taxpayer MLE: They lose access to the Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception entirely, limiting them to signing outside free agents to veteran minimum contracts.No Buyout Signings: They cannot sign a player waived mid-season if that player’s pre-existing salary was higher than the Non-Taxpayer Mid-Level Exception.No Negative-Salary Trades: They cannot take back more money than they send out in a trade, even by $1.
3. Financial Penalties (The Tax Bill)Exponential Luxury Tax: Even though they avoid the second apron repeater tax (which requires being a luxury tax team in 3 out of 4 seasons), being "significantly" over the second apron carries the highest standard incremental tax brackets in league history. They will owe tens of millions of dollars in luxury tax penalties directly to the league for those two seasons.
PatCummings wrote:technomaster wrote:I'd like to see the Knicks bring everyone back for another run. Mitchell Robinson is the most critical piece by a wide margin, at least in my book. Outside of Wemby, he's quietly one of the most game-changing defensive weapons in the league when he's on the floor. Other teams see Mitch in the game and it changes how they attack the basket. On the other end, he remains one of the most imposing offense rebounds in the game today. Sure he has his flaws (FT shooting, unwillingness to take a jumper), but the eye test and advanced stats really say he's a high impact player. And a critical piece in tandem for KAT as we saw in the finals. If you give him starter minutes, he performs like a monster, but with more minutes he becomes a greater injury risk.He'd be really hard to replace with anything close. That is unless Hartenstein finds his way back here (can sign and trade scenarios work here - would OKC want to bring him in as their antidote to the emerging Spurs threat?).
If you can bring everyone back, maybe pay extra on frontloaded deals for next season, I'd love that. But there are financial forces at play, and we have a really expensive top 6 salaries (especially if Mitch gets paid)
I would say I loved the Knicks roster make up this year. I think in 2024-2025 we overindexed in rookies and in the playoffs we didn't have game-ready players to plug in. This season, our young guys were more prepared (Kolek was a huge part of many games before we picked up Alvarado - I think Kolek would have done great if he were called instead of Alvarado or McBride in the finals; Hukporti provided some extremely valuable emergency minutes; Diawara put in some great minutes during the regular season). The youthful energy and enthusiasm is infectious and can't be discounted.
UFA's:
1) Clarkson - nice player, but he's sort of complete duplication of role for Deuce. It's like your backup for your backup.
2) Sochan - I'm sort of torn on this, but he was never really fully integrated into the system. On PAPER he's a big player (6'8") who was being groomed as a PG as recently as last season, before the Spurs saw what a diaster it was and replaced him with Fox, Castle, and Harper. :) In another era, maybe he's the next Pippen. In this era, who knows how he fits in. It's sort of a fascinating twist, how the Spurs released him and let him become a UFA - only to be snapped up by the Knicks. I'd like to think his knowledge of SA's system and his defense on Wemby for a few plays was another piece that tilted the series in our favor. I like his size as a backup PF (tho wish he was an inch taller for that); he brings a lot as a modern forward except for shooting...
3) Shamet - Oh boy, so so clutch. Such a good 3&D player. Really good player overall. If he went over to Europe, he might be something like Evan Fournier. :) I don't see a lot of difference between the value of him and something like Devin Vassell, especially when you knock down Vassell to your 4th or 5th option on offense. It's really about what roles players are given. In any case, I'd like to see this guy get some real money. He's too good (and too much in his prime) to be sacrificing on a near min contract. I'd love to have him back but ultimately there are probably other replacements who can give you the numbers and minutes. But boy he was so, so clutch at times in the playoffs. Not a lot of drop off between the 4th/5th option version of Bridges and him.Player Options:
1) Alvarado - love his tenacity. But we do already have Kolek on board and under contract. Reasons why he'd stay? Depends on his market value - and whether hometown loyalty weighs heavily on him. His lack of height and slight build make him a questionable target from other teams for starter minutes.On to the RFAs:
1) Hukporti - nice dev center. He might even put up numbers if he were on a bad team. If you can keep him cheap, do it - familiarity is important so we don't need to start from scratch. On the other hand, there are some great league minimum vet center available. Best one I can think of is DeAndre Jordan. Plus the Spurs had 2 stashed on their bench: Olynyk (sort of a poor man's KAT with his 3pt range) and Mason Plumlee (excellent court vision and passer). As 3rd stringers, these guys are fantastic. As direct replacements for Mitch, we should be very worried.
2) Diawara - We sort of seem him becoming a starting quality forward one day. And at the moment, he looks like a better prospect as a SF-ish player than Dadiet. Both are so young and they've had the benefit of experiencing this title and learning from our starters. But the nature of the beast is that championship teams never age gracefully and the handoff to the next generation is never so ideal and smooth. (The Warriors inability to develop a new young stud to help out the aging cast has been an issue for what feels like almost a decade. Harrison Barnes was supposed to be that guy. Jonathan Kuminga was supposed to be that guy.). So as much as I think he's our best young prospect, he's also expendable since we have a few others like Dadiet who is under contract and at least on paper can do similar things.
3) McCullar Jr - Like what we've seen, but he can be easily replaced by similar prospects at this current stage of his career. I mean, come on, Alec Burks is available!
4) Jemison - Also liked him in limited work. man this guy is a physical specimen. Great 4th string muscle.
5) Jones - ?!? who knows what he's capable of.Maybe it’s me but I don’t see Mitch as that game changing defender that he was in the past. I think the injuries have taken its toll. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a strong defender and offensive rebounder. I’m not sure that Mitch was even better defensively in the playoffs than KAT.
He wasn't as dominant as we've seen from him but I don't think it's a declining thing just yet. He was still the best OREB in the NBA and still a really good defender. But he can probably stand to lose a few pounds at this point.
I think 3/39m is a fair deal for him.
jock landale
Russell westbrook
Dennis schroeder
I also would look at Dennis smith jr, again we lacked a secondary ball handler that could dribble through pressure.
are all vet min attainable guys
nycericanguy wrote:PatCummings wrote:technomaster wrote:I'd like to see the Knicks bring everyone back for another run. Mitchell Robinson is the most critical piece by a wide margin, at least in my book. Outside of Wemby, he's quietly one of the most game-changing defensive weapons in the league when he's on the floor. Other teams see Mitch in the game and it changes how they attack the basket. On the other end, he remains one of the most imposing offense rebounds in the game today. Sure he has his flaws (FT shooting, unwillingness to take a jumper), but the eye test and advanced stats really say he's a high impact player. And a critical piece in tandem for KAT as we saw in the finals. If you give him starter minutes, he performs like a monster, but with more minutes he becomes a greater injury risk.He'd be really hard to replace with anything close. That is unless Hartenstein finds his way back here (can sign and trade scenarios work here - would OKC want to bring him in as their antidote to the emerging Spurs threat?).
If you can bring everyone back, maybe pay extra on frontloaded deals for next season, I'd love that. But there are financial forces at play, and we have a really expensive top 6 salaries (especially if Mitch gets paid)
I would say I loved the Knicks roster make up this year. I think in 2024-2025 we overindexed in rookies and in the playoffs we didn't have game-ready players to plug in. This season, our young guys were more prepared (Kolek was a huge part of many games before we picked up Alvarado - I think Kolek would have done great if he were called instead of Alvarado or McBride in the finals; Hukporti provided some extremely valuable emergency minutes; Diawara put in some great minutes during the regular season). The youthful energy and enthusiasm is infectious and can't be discounted.
UFA's:
1) Clarkson - nice player, but he's sort of complete duplication of role for Deuce. It's like your backup for your backup.
2) Sochan - I'm sort of torn on this, but he was never really fully integrated into the system. On PAPER he's a big player (6'8") who was being groomed as a PG as recently as last season, before the Spurs saw what a diaster it was and replaced him with Fox, Castle, and Harper. :) In another era, maybe he's the next Pippen. In this era, who knows how he fits in. It's sort of a fascinating twist, how the Spurs released him and let him become a UFA - only to be snapped up by the Knicks. I'd like to think his knowledge of SA's system and his defense on Wemby for a few plays was another piece that tilted the series in our favor. I like his size as a backup PF (tho wish he was an inch taller for that); he brings a lot as a modern forward except for shooting...
3) Shamet - Oh boy, so so clutch. Such a good 3&D player. Really good player overall. If he went over to Europe, he might be something like Evan Fournier. :) I don't see a lot of difference between the value of him and something like Devin Vassell, especially when you knock down Vassell to your 4th or 5th option on offense. It's really about what roles players are given. In any case, I'd like to see this guy get some real money. He's too good (and too much in his prime) to be sacrificing on a near min contract. I'd love to have him back but ultimately there are probably other replacements who can give you the numbers and minutes. But boy he was so, so clutch at times in the playoffs. Not a lot of drop off between the 4th/5th option version of Bridges and him.Player Options:
1) Alvarado - love his tenacity. But we do already have Kolek on board and under contract. Reasons why he'd stay? Depends on his market value - and whether hometown loyalty weighs heavily on him. His lack of height and slight build make him a questionable target from other teams for starter minutes.On to the RFAs:
1) Hukporti - nice dev center. He might even put up numbers if he were on a bad team. If you can keep him cheap, do it - familiarity is important so we don't need to start from scratch. On the other hand, there are some great league minimum vet center available. Best one I can think of is DeAndre Jordan. Plus the Spurs had 2 stashed on their bench: Olynyk (sort of a poor man's KAT with his 3pt range) and Mason Plumlee (excellent court vision and passer). As 3rd stringers, these guys are fantastic. As direct replacements for Mitch, we should be very worried.
2) Diawara - We sort of seem him becoming a starting quality forward one day. And at the moment, he looks like a better prospect as a SF-ish player than Dadiet. Both are so young and they've had the benefit of experiencing this title and learning from our starters. But the nature of the beast is that championship teams never age gracefully and the handoff to the next generation is never so ideal and smooth. (The Warriors inability to develop a new young stud to help out the aging cast has been an issue for what feels like almost a decade. Harrison Barnes was supposed to be that guy. Jonathan Kuminga was supposed to be that guy.). So as much as I think he's our best young prospect, he's also expendable since we have a few others like Dadiet who is under contract and at least on paper can do similar things.
3) McCullar Jr - Like what we've seen, but he can be easily replaced by similar prospects at this current stage of his career. I mean, come on, Alec Burks is available!
4) Jemison - Also liked him in limited work. man this guy is a physical specimen. Great 4th string muscle.
5) Jones - ?!? who knows what he's capable of.Maybe it’s me but I don’t see Mitch as that game changing defender that he was in the past. I think the injuries have taken its toll. Don’t get me wrong, he’s still a strong defender and offensive rebounder. I’m not sure that Mitch was even better defensively in the playoffs than KAT.
He wasn't as dominant as we've seen from him but I don't think it's a declining thing just yet. He was still the best OREB in the NBA and still a really good defender. But he can probably stand to lose a few pounds at this point.
I think 3/39m is a fair deal for him.
3/39 would be great. I thought he would be getting something closer to 20 per.
What if we need to not sign Mitch and Shamet to keep Diawara? I would hate to lose Diawara. We can draft Zuby and Reed and be fine at backup center and likely outperform Mitch