Knicks · The really short off season for knicks! How to run it back? (page 6)

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:We’re trading for DDV. I dunno what but we’re trading for him.

It’s just hard to match his money. Easy just to sign him as a FA in 2027.

Tbh I don’t think we need him for now at least. Deuce will get heavy rotation minutes at the 2, Jose I think picks up his option and Mo I have high hopes for.

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

DLeethal wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

Yes, stick with him. His contributions are not as quantifiable as the others, but often just as vital. He tends to rise to the occasion and become a key player when you need him most.

Philc1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Philc1 wrote:We’re trading for DDV. I dunno what but we’re trading for him.

It’s just hard to match his money. Easy just to sign him as a FA in 2027.

Tbh I don’t think we need him for now at least. Deuce will get heavy rotation minutes at the 2, Jose I think picks up his option and Mo I have high hopes for.

To be honest? YOu just learned he won't be playing next season.

BlueKnickers wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

Yes, stick with him. His contributions are not as quantifiable as the others, but often just as vital. He tends to rise to the occasion and become a key player when you need him most.

Disagree with the bolded. But I'll hold my tongue beyond that.

Panos wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

Yes, stick with him. His contributions are not as quantifiable as the others, but often just as vital. He tends to rise to the occasion and become a key player when you need him most.

Disagree with the bolded. But I'll hold my tongue beyond that.

His defense on the other teams top guards is priceless. His work on McCullum, Maxey, Harden/Mitchell and Fox helped us on this championship run.

DLeethal wrote:Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...

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Again, if you want some defensive "edge", I say the Knicks should go after Gary Payton II. Not as a replacement for Bridges, but as a veteran supplement for the roster overall.

- He's 33 and he's already made 30 million plus in the NBA. His prime earning years in the NBA are over. Now he's probably looking for teams who can win and maybe win a ring. He has previous Finals experience and deep playoff experience. He also comes from legacy NBA bloodlines.

- He has a background with Mike Brown. Brown helped coach him up into a very good defensive wing player. That means he knows what Brown likes to do and why. This is not a player coming in and having to learn Brown's preferred defensive themes from scratch.

- Even if he's lost a step, we have a guy who can and will move well off the ball, won't demand the ball, won't play outside his practical areas of strength, is passable with wide open three point shots and can be effective in transition. He can seamlessly slot into the Josh Hart "Glue Guy/Energy Guy" role, and give Hart a breather during the dog days of the regular season. And, like his dad, he's pretty nimble still as a consistent pickpocket. That going to help the Knicks in transition.

- At this point, he's a Veteran Minimum contract type player. Which is great for the Knicks. Despite being a 10 year veteran of the league, he will be treated like a 2nd year veteran for slotting under the VME. The NBA itself will pay a cash portion of his contract. If he gets hurt, the Knicks can cut him, without impact to their cap and Apron position, and just sign another player with the Veteran's Minimum Exception.

- The only real questions will be if he wants to leave the Warriors, as they will try again with a veteran team, or if he's healthy enough to contribute. At his best, Payton II is 7-8 minutes a game of pure chaos in a bottle. Very disruptive to the other team. At this worst, he's hurt and limping and someone you'll have to cut to clear a path for another veteran.

Chasing Payton II, IMHO, for the VME, is a high upside move. It fits. Whether he will come to NY is another question, but maybe the Mike Brown connection will push that question over the top.

BlueKnickers wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

Yes, stick with him. His contributions are not as quantifiable as the others, but often just as vital. He tends to rise to the occasion and become a key player when you need him most.

The fact that we can place him on guards and let OG guard forwards and/or roam the backline is a huge boon to our defensive versatility. On offense he's our biggest motion guy, constant movement, filling gaps. Ace corner 3 shooter. Went on one of the most efficient playoff scoring runs of all time. No way we should be getting rid of this guy.

Another thing Mikal gives you which is critical to building a DEEP team, is a guy with zero ego whatsoever, perfectly content being the 4th scorer. He at his peak powers is a borderline all star, who is fine being an afterthought. He's the best #4 option in the entire league, will never complain about touches or shots, and is perfectly content just being a connector and motion guy. Those guys do not grow on trees.

DLeethal wrote:Another thing Mikal gives you which is critical to building a DEEP team, is a guy with zero ego whatsoever, perfectly content being the 4th scorer. He at his peak powers is a borderline all star, who is fine being an afterthought. He's the best #4 option in the entire league, will never complain about touches or shots, and is perfectly content just being a connector and motion guy. Those guys do not grow on trees.

This year for sure. Last year his beef with Thibs might have prevented him from resigning?
YOur right though that Mikal was there when needed on both sides of the ball.
At some point we gonna need some of those picks back but they earned the right to run it back and defend their championship.

for whatever reasons, Miami hates kelel ware, and bucks also seem to be really lukewarm on him.

I;m sure there is something going on behind the scenes, whether its his attitude, work ethic, bad teammate, whatever.

but if its something salvageable I wouldn't mind giving the 24 + 31 for him as a secondary option if we can't keep mitch/

What is intersting is "Chemistry".
You take a player and insert on one team vs. another and what happens?
Im long on record as not into the "Plug and play" thing thinking a player is going to be what he has been.
For example what is mitch on another team? The same?
Did iHart become what he did from the clippers, and not such a great 1st year with knicks? Really not until OG came and Mitch got hurt did he show up. Was it him, or chemistry? LIke both, but it matters.
iHart on OKC? He went to team ready to compete, He went to a really good team!
That my point, If mitch goes, can another step in and succeed becuase of whats around him? Yes. Who? I don't know.

Maybe its time for Mitch to fly and find out who he is outside of this team? Maybe he does really great, or falls on his ass but gets paid.
For all we know Mike Brown or leon might be ok with him walking as they have other designs.

Panos wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Kessler is RFA this year. Could we pry him away? Would he come off the bench in Mitch's role? Will they command about the same money?

Now is the time to make a move for Kessler.

"Once a Knick, always a Knick" - this team has nothing left to prove and, quite frankly, I have a problem with assuming that the Knicks
have nothing more than a year left.

Mitchell Robinson is eternally a Knick and can now go and get a hefty bag for himself elsewhere - well earned, no regrets.
The fiscal constraints simply squeeze out paying him what he's worth here.

Go out and overpay (to acquire) for Kessler. That extends KAT's career and health trajectory. The Knicks have some unneeded tasty picks and can
flip a vet or two to make it happen. Diawara and Huk might be part of that cost

Deuce and Shamet can also go and grab a bag of their own. Would they be nice to keep? Sure. But you can only play five on the floor at once.

Alvarado complements Brunson better and McCullar is next man up for Shamet.

The Core, a hardened Center position and a new year of establishing a revitalized team that can conceivably contend and
maintain fiscal viability year after year has to be the goal.

NYKBocker wrote:

Panos wrote:

BlueKnickers wrote:

DLeethal wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Trading Mikal would be a huge mistake. What he does, does not get nearly enough credit. But more importantly, him and OG combined just give us a defensive edge that nearly no other team has. You lose one of those guys, your edge goes away.

Yes, stick with him. His contributions are not as quantifiable as the others, but often just as vital. He tends to rise to the occasion and become a key player when you need him most.

Disagree with the bolded. But I'll hold my tongue beyond that.

His defense on the other teams top guards is priceless. His work on McCullum, Maxey, Harden/Mitchell and Fox helped us on this championship run.

im in this camp. plus we don't want to mess with chemistry

I get it everyone wants to play GM this time of year but the risk/reward is off the charts if we mess with our strength which is out chemistry and the way these guys complement each other

anyone heard of this Spanish pg the Knicks are supposedly into? Sergio de la something-or-other?

fwk00 wrote:

Panos wrote:

aggo wrote:Mikal for walker Kessler

Kessler is RFA this year. Could we pry him away? Would he come off the bench in Mitch's role? Will they command about the same money?

Now is the time to make a move for Kessler.

"Once a Knick, always a Knick" - this team has nothing left to prove and, quite frankly, I have a problem with assuming that the Knicks
have nothing more than a year left.

Mitchell Robinson is eternally a Knick and can now go and get a hefty bag for himself elsewhere - well earned, no regrets.
The fiscal constraints simply squeeze out paying him what he's worth here.

Go out and overpay (to acquire) for Kessler. That extends KAT's career and health trajectory. The Knicks have some unneeded tasty picks and can
flip a vet or two to make it happen. Diawara and Huk might be part of that cost

Deuce and Shamet can also go and grab a bag of their own. Would they be nice to keep? Sure. But you can only play five on the floor at once.

Alvarado complements Brunson better and McCullar is next man up for Shamet.

The Core, a hardened Center position and a new year of establishing a revitalized team that can conceivably contend and
maintain fiscal viability year after year has to be the goal.

I keep hearing y'all talking about McCullar like he's a sure thing to step into the rotation, but dude can barely get minutes in a blowout loss. What am I missing? I haven't seen anything to convince me he's all that, or even a contributor. Certainly NOT at the level of Shameet who's a deadly shooter, and above average defender.

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:We’re trading for DDV. I dunno what but we’re trading for him.

Its been written here a few times: DDV has a torn achilles. He won't play next season.

didn't Jayson Tatum have the same injury?

Chandler wrote:anyone heard of this Spanish pg the Knicks are supposedly into? Sergio de la something-or-other?

I think it was Inigo Montoya. I heard he was a lefty, but not sure on that.

ccch wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Philc1 wrote:We’re trading for DDV. I dunno what but we’re trading for him.

Its been written here a few times: DDV has a torn achilles. He won't play next season.

didn't Jayson Tatum have the same injury?

Yes, and he came back in mid march with mixed results. Dame Lilliard and Durant also, but they gave it about a full year or longer to be safe. Haliburton's was a bit later but he did not even attempt it. No two patients are the same. Some bounce back better than others.

Im speaking in generalities not specifics.

Jimmy D was on Carton again basically saying zero chance we go into second apron.

DLeethal wrote:Jimmy D was on Carton again basically saying zero chance we go into second apron.

This is very notable. I will say that his description/ explanation made it seem like he doesn’t really understand how it works. But it’s always very possible that they determined as an organization they will not go over until they absolutely have to. They just won a title and are essentially playing with house money right now. The longer they hold off going over the second apron, the longer they can keep the core group (maybe minus Mitch) together. You really have to play the long game with this. And you would need to have KAT take a dramatic paycut on his next contract for there not to be a 2 year expiration date on this group.