For me it was when we figured out that The players Isiah targeted and brought in were not going to mesh with Larry Brown. Marbury, Crawford, Curry Tim Thomas mo Taylor etc. It was a toxic match and we were stuck with those contracts. So Larry was forced out and the rest is history. Isiah takes over as headcoach, curry gets fatter and Isiah signs Jerome James. Then we gave up zach, crawful, lee and marbury for nothing to please dantoni.All this ultimately led to Marbury eating vaselin.
It became obvious that Isiah had no idea what he was doing targeting the wrong kind of players through free agency and trades
There was a lot of hope that Larry brown would teach this guys to play the right way. As we Peter found it. It was a pipe dream with that group. Funny that the garden spinner it to make Larry look like the bad guy
gunsnewing wrote:There was a lot of hope that Larry brown would teach this guys to play the right way. As we Peter found it. It was a pipe dream with that group. Funny that the garden spinner it to make Larry look like the bad guy
but Larry was part of the problem. He knew the roster he had coming in and did his best to make an already flawed roster look even worse. There is a reason he lost his case in Arbitration. His track record after leaving New York bolsters my belief that Larry was as much a cancer as Isiah. He got fired from his next 2 or three jobs after New York fired him.
If he was such a good guy why did he lose the arbitration case he brought against New York when they fired him?
I won't argue that he made it worse but the Knicks and Isiah and Dolan at the time tried to blame him for everything. The next few seasons proved that Isiah was the root of the problem. Larry was long gone but we were still stuck with isiahs guys
Once Larry Brown lost the power struggle between him, Isiah and Marbury; I knew we were doomed. Larry Brown was the only winner out of the 3 of them (in their current titles, I know Isiah won as a player but his record as an executive speaks for itself). It's a shame it took Dolan so long to get rid of him. So many wasted years. My mom was a huge Knicks fan and passed away this year, she would have loved nothing more than to see them win it all.
Exactly man. I love your signature by the way. I said it at the time when everyone was blaming Larry. I said it at the time that I trusted Larry over the other 2 clowns because if what he did in Philly and Detroit. The problem was Larry made the clowns look worse so they had to rush to get rid of him. If only they rebuilt the team with Larry brown players. Even if it took 4-6yrs. Unfortunately we did that years later for a much more inferior coach in Mike fuckin Dantoni and wasted another decade if you count Amares 5yr contract. Still no championship in sight so many yrs later. Hollowing that we get it right after 2015
gunsnewing wrote:Exactly man. I love your signature by the way. I said it at the time when everyone was blaming Larry. I said it at the time that I trusted Larry over the other 2 clowns because if what he did in Philly and Detroit. The problem was Larry made the clowns look worse so they had to rush to get rid of him. If only they rebuilt the team with Larry brown players. Even if it took 4-6yrs. Unfortunately we did that years later for a much more inferior coach in Mike fuckin Dantoni and wasted another decade if you count Amares 5yr contract. Still no championship in sight so many yrs later. Hollowing that we get it right after 2015
Larry was done as a coach by the time we got him. Look at what happened to him after he left. Why was/is he constantly getting fired by guys who are supposedly good friends. Not saying Isiah and Dolan weren't much bigger problems but, Larry doesn't deserve any credit for his tenure here.
No one will answer why he lost in Arbitration if he was here doing a good job? Why did he get fired from his next couple of stops? Larry was a bad choice at the time. The one who got a raw deal was Lenny Wilkins imo.
I can't fault Larry for the bobcats. Is common knowledge that Jordan doesn't know what he is doing as executive. Lenny was fired for the same reason Larry was. And every coach since JVG. The ineptitude of the owner and his general managers
It seems like since Isiah got me jaded I argue with the same Knicks fans who always try to find the silver lining and throw rocks at everyone that was either left or were forced out. Whether its Larry brown, David Lee or Jeremy Lin. The constant is Dolan and his loyalty to Isiah and now Melo will further extend out 41yr championship drought
DurzoBlint wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Exactly man. I love your signature by the way. I said it at the time when everyone was blaming Larry. I said it at the time that I trusted Larry over the other 2 clowns because if what he did in Philly and Detroit. The problem was Larry made the clowns look worse so they had to rush to get rid of him. If only they rebuilt the team with Larry brown players. Even if it took 4-6yrs. Unfortunately we did that years later for a much more inferior coach in Mike fuckin Dantoni and wasted another decade if you count Amares 5yr contract. Still no championship in sight so many yrs later. Hollowing that we get it right after 2015
Larry was done as a coach by the time we got him. Look at what happened to him after he left. Why was/is he constantly getting fired by guys who are supposedly good friends. Not saying Isiah and Dolan weren't much bigger problems but, Larry doesn't deserve any credit for his tenure here.
No one will answer why he lost in Arbitration if he was here doing a good job? Why did he get fired from his next couple of stops? Larry was a bad choice at the time. The one who got a raw deal was Lenny Wilkins imo.
How was he done as a coach by the time we got him? He won a chip and went to the finals in the 2 years before he got here.
Yea I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. Suddenly the guy forgot how to coach. I could understand if he was a player. Jason Kidd was effective 2yrs ago and done last season at 40 but a coach? Unless he had a life altering or threatening health issue which he didn't since he went on to coach the Bobcats
This is the kind of thing that enables Dolan and why I refuse to save the Pom poms for this current team as presently constituted. It's Always someone else's fault
azamatbagatov wrote:DurzoBlint wrote:gunsnewing wrote:Exactly man. I love your signature by the way. I said it at the time when everyone was blaming Larry. I said it at the time that I trusted Larry over the other 2 clowns because if what he did in Philly and Detroit. The problem was Larry made the clowns look worse so they had to rush to get rid of him. If only they rebuilt the team with Larry brown players. Even if it took 4-6yrs. Unfortunately we did that years later for a much more inferior coach in Mike fuckin Dantoni and wasted another decade if you count Amares 5yr contract. Still no championship in sight so many yrs later. Hollowing that we get it right after 2015
Larry was done as a coach by the time we got him. Look at what happened to him after he left. Why was/is he constantly getting fired by guys who are supposedly good friends. Not saying Isiah and Dolan weren't much bigger problems but, Larry doesn't deserve any credit for his tenure here.
No one will answer why he lost in Arbitration if he was here doing a good job? Why did he get fired from his next couple of stops? Larry was a bad choice at the time. The one who got a raw deal was Lenny Wilkins imo.
How was he done as a coach by the time we got him? He won a chip and went to the finals in the 2 years before he got here.
I was a huge LB supporter at the time, but with hindsight he was part of the problem and came here to cash paychecks from Dolan and Isiah's free cash giveaways. I wouldn't be surprised if LB tried to get fired so he could keep collecting for free. He had nothing to prove after his chip and I don't remember his time here fondly as opposed to, say, Lenny
SupremeCommander wrote:I was a huge LB supporter at the time, but with hindsight he was part of the problem and came here to cash paychecks from Dolan and Isiah's free cash giveaways. I wouldn't be surprised if LB tried to get fired so he could keep collecting for free. He had nothing to prove after his chip and I don't remember his time here fondly as opposed to, say, Lenny
Lenny got the worst treatment of all. What was he supposed to do with that collection of bums?! And he had them playing 500 ball. ShandEisleySpoon, et al. SMDH. 
sure is the dog days of summer...
when's training camp start again?
Panos wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I was a huge LB supporter at the time, but with hindsight he was part of the problem and came here to cash paychecks from Dolan and Isiah's free cash giveaways. I wouldn't be surprised if LB tried to get fired so he could keep collecting for free. He had nothing to prove after his chip and I don't remember his time here fondly as opposed to, say, Lenny
Lenny got the worst treatment of all. What was he supposed to do with that collection of bums?! And he had them playing 500 ball. ShandEisleySpoon, et al. SMDH.
I've seen some legitimately good coaches over the years due to being a fan of the Giants and Yankees. Not as many but some with the Knicks and Rangers... I really thought Lenny did a masterful job coaching that team. The roster he took over was awful and pushing him out the door disguised that fact
[url="http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2004.html"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2004.html[/url]
PresIke wrote:sure is the dog days of summer...when's training camp start again?
the Yanks stink, the Giants stink, hockey hasn't started yet...
at least tkf can't hijack this thread and turn it into an anti-Melo one
gunsnewing wrote:Yea I'm still trying to figure that one out myself. Suddenly the guy forgot how to coach. I could understand if he was a player. Jason Kidd was effective 2yrs ago and done last season at 40 but a coach? Unless he had a life altering or threatening health issue which he didn't since he went on to coach the Bobcats
AND got fired a year later? After winning the chip, he has gotten fired from ever coaching stop he made. That is a track record you can't dispute. Stop focusing on the Knicks and focus on Brown for a moment....he has gotten FIRED by every team he has been with since he won his chip. There is a reason Detroit got rid of him right after. Joe must have know that he was done after he won it all.
People keep defending Brown because they are clouded by their hate of Dolan and Isiah but, there is no disputing his record since Detroit gave him the boot.
And this does not absolve Dolan or Isiah at all. Just saying that Brown was just as fuked up as the rest of the inmates who were/are running the asylum.
Very true of Lenny. The bottom line is it doesn't matter who the coach is if the roster is flawed. Had they kept Lenny and added the jokesters Isiah added Lenny's would most likely not be looked at in the same light
gunsnewing wrote:There was a lot of hope that Larry brown would teach this guys to play the right way. As we Peter found it. It was a pipe dream with that group. Funny that the garden spinner it to make Larry look like the bad guy
yea, that is what started to sour me on this franchise.. and a lot of the fanbase... larry brown I think could have gotten us back to respectability, but dolan empowered isiah and the rest was history.I liked larry brown.. then we had dantoni being sabotaged by one of teams so called best players and again, we can see the inmates running the asylum..
SupremeCommander wrote:Panos wrote:SupremeCommander wrote:I was a huge LB supporter at the time, but with hindsight he was part of the problem and came here to cash paychecks from Dolan and Isiah's free cash giveaways. I wouldn't be surprised if LB tried to get fired so he could keep collecting for free. He had nothing to prove after his chip and I don't remember his time here fondly as opposed to, say, Lenny
Lenny got the worst treatment of all. What was he supposed to do with that collection of bums?! And he had them playing 500 ball. ShandEisleySpoon, et al. SMDH.
I've seen some legitimately good coaches over the years due to being a fan of the Giants and Yankees. Not as many but some with the Knicks and Rangers... I really thought Lenny did a masterful job coaching that team. The roster he took over was awful and pushing him out the door disguised that fact
[url="http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2004.html"]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/NYK/2004.html[/url]
when lenny was kicked out/ left, he had the knicks playing well. Crawford and marbury resembled a decent back court, than poof... all of a sudden he was gone.. another black eye for this franchise...
