Off Topic · OT: Yankees Pitching BLOWS (page 1)

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential". Are they going to get anyone before the deadline?

If we had a healthy rotation, the team may be looking more like its former, dominant self. Losing Pavano, Wright, and Wang to injuries has just made us very vunerable in those low scoring games.
I still do like the addition of Leiter in the back of the rotation though, atleast while we're recovering. Still better than Brown.

If we can get back two of those three we should still be okay, but after this season I expect to see major, major moves and changes going down.

The offense was hot lately and winning even with mediocre pitching, but then we started playing the Angels. Grrr I hate Vladimir!

YA, I agree guys. the yANKEES SUCK. SOX RULE.



YOU'RE SO RIGHT...

Posted by bobs3304:

YA, I agree guys. the yANKEES SUCK. SOX RULE.



YOU'RE SO RIGHT...

BS

If they had a manager that knew how to handle a pen, they would have won Tuesday and Thurday and there would be no need to talk about the pitching.


[Edited by - Rich on 07/24/2005 00:46:13]

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

Thanks to Cano, Wang, and the resurgence of Giambi there are some really bright spots...just waiting for healthy pitching and a center fielder!

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

I hate the Angels. Grr...

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

From Cy Young level (his stats were better than Clemens's) to shot? That's not credible.

Who brought up Brown? Um yeah, no one.

[Edited by - Rich on 07/24/2005 01:20:15]

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

From Cy Young to shot? That's not credible.

Who brought up Brown? Um yeah, no one.

original discussion was talking about their entire rotation... who brought up pavano? um yeah, no one. please, you seriously thought RJ would be the same as he was in arizona? lol! have fun having him on the roster the next 2 years. lol

btw, its not like he went from cy young to this, he is a few years removed from being cy young.



[Edited by - jaydh on 07/24/2005 01:25:11]

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/24/2005 01:26:43]

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by Knight:

When the season started they had the best starting rotation "potentially"...now it's garbage--that's the problem with "potential".

maybe only to a biased yankee fan.

Do you mean you expected RJ to have a major dropoff from last season, and that you thought the Sox were also wrong about Pavano and shouldn't have offered him more than the Yankees did?

yes, i thought RJ was shot, and brown was garbage prior to the season.

From Cy Young to shot? That's not credible.

Who brought up Brown? Um yeah, no one.

original discussion was talking about their entire rotation... please, you seriously thought RJ would be the same as he was in arizona? lol! have fun having him on the roster the next 2 years. lol

[Edited by - jaydh on 07/24/2005 01:21:45]

ERAs are significantly higher in the AL due to the lack of a DH. I thought he would pitch at a Cy Young level this year, even thoough I was strongly against the trade, and so did every other knowledgeable baseball person.

Add him to what the Sox thought of Pavano, and Mussina, and it's reasonable to think their rotation would be top tier.

If you are a Sox fan, you have to admit that Schilling could suck in the next two years. If you are a Met fan, the same thing is true about Pedro.

Meanwhile, the Yankees' revenue streams will enable the Yankees to be better than either team.

Facts are stubborn things.

Posted by Rich:

ERAs are significantly higher in the AL due to the lack of a DH. I thought he would pitch at a Cy Young level this year, even thoough I was strongly against the trade, and so did every other knowledgeable baseball person.

why would you think that? he hasnt been a cy young in several years, and the AL is always more difficult than the NL.

Posted by Rich:

Add him to what the Sox thought of Pavano, and Mussina, and it's reasonable to think their rotation would be top tier.

3 guys past thier prime is hardly top tier. and the stats prove it.

Posted by Rich:

If you are a Sox fan, you have to admit that Schilling could suck in the next two years. If you are a Met fan, the same thing is true about Pedro.

yes, i believe schilling is shot also, and pedro is far from being in quite the decline RJ, Mussina, or Brown have experienced. he is several years younger, and a better pitcher than some of them were in their primes.

Posted by Rich:

Meanwhile, the Yankees' revenue streams will enable the Yankees to be better than either team.

Facts are stubborn things.

possibly, but there is no denying the mets and red sox have quite a large revenue stream also. i would think the mets and red sox players are more movable due to their age and contracts. just because a team makes more money, doesnt necessarily mean they will be better(duh).

This is a Knicks site fellas, Yankees forums are elsewhere. Sayonara please.

Posted by rojasmas:

This is a Knicks site fellas, Yankees forums are elsewhere. Sayonara please.

ya I gottA agree. the yANKEES DEF. SUCK...

Posted by jaydh:


why would you think that? he hasnt been a cy young in several years, and the AL is always more difficult than the NL.

Have you examined his stats from last season?

http://baseball-reference.com/j/johnsra05.shtml

ERA: 2.60 ERA+: 170

If that isn't a Cy Young level, nothing is.

By comparison, Clemens, who won the CYA:

ERA: 2.96 ERA+: 145

RJ just played on a bad team.

Posted by jaydh:

3 guys past thier prime is hardly top tier. and the stats prove it.

Really? How many teams had three better starters going into the season.

Pavano won 18 games last year, and Randy was stellar. Moose has had a near HoF career. Granted Wright and Brown were question marks, but a lot of us wanted Wang in the rotation from before ST.

Posted by jaydh:

yes, i believe schilling is shot also, and pedro is far from being in quite the decline RJ, Mussina, or Brown have experienced. he is several years younger, and a better pitcher than some of them were in their primes.

Pedro used to throw 96 mph. In a lot of his starts this season he doesn't even hit 90. Once he hits 100 pitches, his ERA goes up dramatically. He also has a pre-existing tear in his rotator cuff.

His ERA+ was only 125 last seasaon, the worst it has been since '96.

He had a huge dropoff after the AS break last year:

Pre: ERA: 3.67 Post: ERA: 4.17

Pitching in the NL has really helped him.

That said, I would have preferred signing Pedro for just money than to give up players for RJ. The Yankees could really use Navarro.

Posted by jaydh:

possibly, but there is no denying the mets and red sox have quite a large revenue stream also. i would think the mets and red sox players are more movable due to their age and contracts. just because a team makes more money, doesnt necessarily mean they will be better(duh).

The Yankees have a ton of money coming off their payroll (Bernie, Brown, Tino, Gordon, May (instead of Quantrill). Building a new stadium cancels luxury tax payments.

Stick has regained power over player personnel. The farm system is very strong at the lower levels.

At least you haven't tried to argue that the Sox are a small market team, as some deluded Sox fans often claim.

Posted by bobs3304:

Posted by rojasmas:

This is a Knicks site fellas, Yankees forums are elsewhere. Sayonara please.

ya I gottA agree. the yANKEES DEF. SUCK...

What wit.

Yanks were headed in the right direction with pavano and Wright, who are both good pitchers under 30, wright's injury hurt us. Mussina is only 35 but still in his prime years. RJ and Brown are shot IMO, as is schilling. Pedro is still a stud pitcher for 6 innings and Boston is finding that out, Boston will not win because of not keeping pedro who was a big time performer...

I had problems with trading Weaver whow as 26 and vazques who was 28 for two 40+ year old pitchers, that to me is what nalod called star phuching and it backfired. Trading young talent like that we should have taken a step back and gotten some good prospect or other young picthers who were ready to step in and start in a year or two.....

I love the yanks, but we are getting what we deserve for displaying bad management skills and no foresight.... Look at what the braves are doing basically with a 90% minor league team on the field...