http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/39749/20060328/amare_done/
MSNBC - Phoenix Suns forward Amare Stoudemire could miss the rest of the season, Sports Illustrated reported on its Web site.
Stoudemire has been sent back to the sidelines for further rehabilitation work on his left knee, Phoenix Suns coach and general manager Mike D’Antoni said Tuesday.
Stoudemire will not play Tuesday night against the Bucks in Milwaukee and is doubtful "maybe for three days, maybe for 10 days, maybe for the rest of the season," D'Antoni told the site.
Not the biggest fan of the Suns style of play but this is crushing for the Suns and Amare. It's becoming more and more aparent just how dangerous this microfracture surgery is for athletes. Allan Houston was never the same, Chris Webber has been playing on one leg for the past 1-2 seasons and now this for Amare. It's a scary surgery.
[Edited by - nyk4ever on 03-28-2006 4:49 PM]
Chris Webber is now the slowest player in the NBA, and that was the same for Allan when he tried to make his comeback. I think 1 player truely came back successfully from it, and that's Jason Kidd. Webber is relying on his overall muscle strength and his intelligence.
Posted by Allanfan20:
Chris Webber is now the slowest player in the NBA, and that was the same for Allan when he tried to make his comeback. I think 1 player truely came back successfully from it, and that's Jason Kidd. Webber is relying on his overall muscle strength and his intelligence.
Kidd could do it because he game doesn't really on jumping. Only running, but he is not running as fast as he once was either. But I admit he has had the best results out of them all. It would be a shame if basketball fans never got to see Amare turn into one of the great big men the game has seen. All I can remember of him is him basically abusing TD and dunking it each and every time he touched the rock no matter where he got it and what was in his way. He dominated their team in the paint, even as the Spurs as a team beat them rather easily. That guy is incredible, I'd love to see him play some more.
Amare is a dumbass, the Suns are dumbasses. They have risked his future for no good reason. Even a few games can damage cartilage that hasn't "set" yet.
They should have given him a year away from the court, no ifs, ands, or buts.
oohah
Since he is injured, and maybe it affects his game, does Amare now fall into the "guys Zeke will try to acquire category"?
Posted by oohah:
Amare is a dumbass, the Suns are dumbasses. They have risked his future for no good reason. Even a few games can damage cartilage that hasn't "set" yet.
They should have given him a year away from the court, no ifs, ands, or buts.
oohah
You're right; I was concerned that they were rushing Amare back. Amare's a young gem. They needed to be overly careful with him.
isn't the rule of thumb for a lot of these surgeries that you need at least 12-18 months before you are normal?
Allan should be ready any day now.
Kidd is super human.
On TNT Barkley pleaded with Amare and the Suns organization for Amare NOT to play this season.
Qyntel Woods is better than Amare
Amare looked like he was dragging his leg around from the knee down. He really should just sit out for the year and get the knee right.
Posted by franco12:
isn't the rule of thumb for a lot of these surgeries that you need at least 12-18 months before you are normal?
yeah. Amare said he was rushing back to help the Suns out. I think this is more serious than being reported. Webber and Allan are the best examples. Remember last season even Kidd looked bad. I think Amare should have stayed out the year as planned. Now I fear for his recovery. He does have age on his side though.
Add channing frye to the list as well.
Posted by DarkKnicks:
Qyntel Woods is better than Amare
6 months have elapsed since the surgery. The defective surfaces have already healed.
So don't lose sleep over cartilage not "setting."
The bigger concern is there being no cartilage re-growth. And of course over-compensation for his left knee and persistent stiffness. Much of that stiffness won't necessarily go away depending on how the cartilage sealed over the joint - there is a distance between the formation and lodging site. The size of the degenerative area pre-operativly for Amare is a much more significant predictor of his recovery than 25 minutes of NBA action in March.
You sound like you know a good deal about microfracture. You are correct, the re-growth of the cartilage is the most important indicator, and I think we have to assume AS's has grown back to a reasonable degree, they were doing MRI's on him all the time. Knee strength, the size of the defect, and how much grew back are the important factors in the return of a microfracture recipient.
However...
I am a veteran of the microfracture technique. While data has shown that 6 months is enough time for cartilage to grow and solidify enough for a return to athletics, my own experience, the numerous orthopaedists and therapists I have dealt with, and my observations of athletes who have undergone microfracture have demonstrated to my satisfaction that returning to heavy duty sports activity after 6 months ain't enough time, just from the aspect of the stress put on the new cartilage.
My cartilage did grow back decently, I rehabed to a new level of strength, I returned to sports after more than 6 months and it was shredded again in a short period of time.
In fact, more than one of the orthaepedists I have gone to who are affiliated with professional sports franchises have compared going back to rigorous athletic activity 6 months after microfracture to "trampling fresh seedlings". In essence, newly generated cartlage can collapse under too much stress.
This is especially true for those who have the technique done on weight-bearing areas of their knee, unlike Jason Kidd. AS you know, the cartilage that grows back is not the same as the stuff that is lost, it is not as good, it is more like "scab-cartilage". And 6 months isn't enough time for it to toughen for the big time.
I am not saying that it can't be done, but why take the risk?
oohah
Posted by oohah:
6 months have elapsed since the surgery. The defective surfaces have already healed.
So don't lose sleep over cartilage not "setting."
The bigger concern is there being no cartilage re-growth. And of course over-compensation for his left knee and persistent stiffness. Much of that stiffness won't necessarily go away depending on how the cartilage sealed over the joint - there is a distance between the formation and lodging site. The size of the degenerative area pre-operativly for Amare is a much more significant predictor of his recovery than 25 minutes of NBA action in March.
You sound like you know a good deal about microfracture. You are correct, the re-growth of the cartilage is the most important indicator, and I think we have to assume AS's has grown back to a reasonable degree, they were doing MRI's on him all the time. Knee strength, the size of the defect, and how much grew back are the important factors in the return of a microfracture recipient.
However...
I am a veteran of the microfracture technique. While data has shown that 6 months is enough time for cartilage to grow and solidify enough for a return to athletics, my own experience, the numerous orthopaedists and therapists I have dealt with, and my observations of athletes who have undergone microfracture have demonstrated to my satisfaction that returning to heavy duty sports activity after 6 months ain't enough time, just from the aspect of the stress put on the new cartilage.
My cartilage did grow back decently, I rehabed to a new level of strength, I returned to sports after more than 6 months and it was shredded again in a short period of time.
In fact, more than one of the orthaepedists I have gone to who are affiliated with professional sports franchises have compared going back to rigorous athletic activity 6 months after microfracture to "trampling fresh seedlings". In essence, newly generated cartlage can collapse under too much stress.
This is especially true for those who have the technique done on weight-bearing areas of their knee, unlike Jason Kidd. AS you know, the cartilage that grows back is not the same as the stuff that is lost, it is not as good, it is more like "scab-cartilage". And 6 months isn't enough time for it to toughen for the big time.
I am not saying that it can't be done, but why take the risk?
oohah
good stuff. Thanks for info.
I hope your recovery went smoothly. I have had some experience with microfracture as well, though as a physician. My specialization is cardiothoracic surgery.
From Amare's perspective, the risk was lousy. Without a doubt, not too much to gain. I can guarantee you, however, that the 1 game he played will have zero impact. The surgery itself is flawed. From a durability and performance standpoint for a professional basketball player, it can only buy you so much time before that fated day comes when your doctor recommends a second surgery. That's when the fat lady starts cleaning her throat. There are more promising techniques in the works, however.
Hi Codeunknown, I thought you might be a Doctor, unlike the rest of us who just play one on internet boards.
Thanks for your well wishes.
Unfortunately, my own microfracture was a smashing failure, followed by 3 more operations over the past 4 years, the last being a meniscus transplant this past November that I am currently rehabbing from. I have high hopes for my meniscus transplant. My knee has a cushion again. This is not something one would be able to feel unless they know what it feels like when it is not there.
I think you are correct about AS not damaging his cartilage in only 3 games. I think AS's greater risk was incurring a new injury because his knee is just not ready yet. Also as you said, perhaps the surgery just did not work that well and he does not have enough re-growth.
Your words make me feel better too, because this past Sunday I walked more than I have in months looking for an apartment, then I did something really stupid and bounded up 2 flights of stairs to get the train on Monday. Needless to say, I was sore this week and I began to wonder: Did I damage my new meniscus? I don't think I did, but after so many operations...
I would be surprised if AS does not have to undergo a procedure similar to a meniscus transplant or another type of cartilage graft within a few years. Hopefully not a full-on one like I did, that is way more painful than any of the other operations I have had.
I am not a big fan of microfracture.
Take it easy.
oohah
Duncan had the same procedure done to him a few yrs back.. Amare will be find for next yr.. he's only 21 or 22 yrs of age.. young bones!!
Duncan had the same procedure done to him a few yrs back.. Amare will be find for next yr.. he's only 21 or 22 yrs of age.. young bones!!
Every microfracture is different, it depends on the amount of damage done and where the damage is. No way Duncan's operation was of the same severity as Stoudemire's, Duncan didn't miss a season of games. Also, youth is a two-sided coin in this case, Stoudemire is young to have so much damage in his knee, especially since his jumping ability is so important to his game, unlike Duncan. I do hope that Stoudemire's youth helps him bounce back. He'll probably lose a tad off those springs though.
oohah
