Off Topic · O.T 1921 Tulsa Race Riot:Survivors & Decendants SPEAK! (page 1)

pt 1





And they say that there is no 'Conspiracy' against the the so-called 'blacks' of this country.Why don't Anglo's wake up and see the truth of how savage people really are when so-called 'blacks' have a can do attitude in self-reliance.


I like what the white guy says at the end in pt 2.

If we knew more about the past and the results of the massacres maybe it will make people stop and have a 2nd thought about this... and realize we are all brothers under the skin.

And they say that there is no 'Conspiracy' against the the so-called 'blacks' of this country.Why don't Anglo's wake up and see the truth of how savage people really are when so-called 'blacks' have a can do attitude in self-reliance.

Hey buddy, that's an insulting comment. I should ignore, but I don't think you are aware that a person with half a mind, white or black, is aware of what the black person went through for them to get to where they are today, and to top it off, they still have to deal with racial crap.

Now I didn't listen to the white guy, but if he said anything racial, guess what, he's a racist. However, it's not fair for you to place all that blame on all the white men in general, and don't even think of going "But look at what we had to deal with." Good. I'm glad. But throughout all your racial posts, you come off as arrogant AND racist, and it's turning a lot of people away.

when playa creates a thread it's natural reflex to move it to the OT forums. Maybe I need to automate that.

Playa, you really need to do this on another platform.

I think you need to also consider that its just not this country that has a Phucked up history, its the planet.

For every bad story there are at many many good ones that we as a nation can be proud of.

Im not saying it should be ignored, but for some of us we recognize the past warts and all and understand just how mess up things have been at times, but also am grateful it was not a whole lot worse at times.

Find a country that doe not have a checkerd past and I'll move with you.

Canada might be close!

This thread was not intendedt to make non blacks on this forum tofeel guilty or get bent out of shape.

All this thread does is educate people so they can better understand why some people are in the conditions they are in today. To some it's not worth all the hard work, history has proven that all who work hard in america didn't reap their justly benefits.

I would never say all white people are bad , leave that to Farrakan and his crew.
I just recall the federal building in Oklahoma City, as the most tragic bombing ever to take place on United States soil, as the media has been widely reporting, they were wrong -- plain and simple.

I guess they forgot or didn't acknowledging hardworking blacks as americans in 1921

[Edited by - playa2 on 10-08-2007 17:05]

Posted by playa2:

I would never say all white people are bad , leave that to Farrakan and his crew.
I just recall the federal building in Oklahoma City, as the most tragic bombing ever to take place on United States soil, as the media has been widely reporting, they were wrong -- plain and simple.

I guess they forgot or didn't acknowledging hardworking blacks as americans in 1921

Your problem is you make it sound like you think that the oversight was intentional. How many people in the media do you think were aware of this incident, or even enough details to make the determination that you did.

If you want to educate people, educate them, but leave the suppositions about why things are the way they are at home.

Posted by playa2:

This thread was not intendedt to make non blacks on this forum tofeel guilty or get bent out of shape.

All this thread does is educate people so they can better understand why some people are in the conditions they are in today. To some it's not worth all the hard work, history has proven that all who work hard in america didn't reap their justly benefits.

I would never say all white people are bad , leave that to Farrakan and his crew.
I just recall the federal building in Oklahoma City, as the most tragic bombing ever to take place on United States soil, as the media has been widely reporting, they were wrong -- plain and simple.

I guess they forgot or didn't acknowledging hardworking blacks as americans in 1921

[Edited by - playa2 on 10-08-2007 17:05]

You've lost me. They were wrong about the Oklahoma City bombing being the worst to ever take place in the US because of the riots in 1921? The riots were riots, the bombing was a bombing. You can call it the worst bombing in the US and that doesn't say a thing about how bad the riots were - nor does it invite any comparison between the two.

[Edited by - mythfaze on 08-10-2007 5:16 PM]

Playa, I understand what you're saying, and I understand that all these events that the black men went through were horrifying. Believe me, I've taken my fair share of American History classes and it made me absolutely disgusted. However, when you say "Why don't Anglo's wake up", it doesn't sound like you're bashing the "White media." which btw, I see just as many blacks in the media in this day and age. It sounds like you're bashing the white population.

And believe me, there are many ignorant white people, and just as many ignorant black people, and asians, and latino(a)s. However, for every one idiot, there's a knowledgable person who can emphasize.

AllanfAN I apoligize for making it sound like I was talking about white people in general by saying anglo's.

But I don't think many, if any african americans were used in the media around 1921 to expose these type of events.

The survivors and decendents are the only ones who were gonna expose this type of travesty.

Did you even watch the 1st video when the women opened up the segment by NOT BLAMING ANYONE but saying the show "real life" history tried to COVER UP.

History ? How about the racist media around oklahoma and the U.S, I'm sure that word spread QUICKLY after the devastation that took place. Around 4000 people were displaced and had to move somewhere else . I'm sure where ever they moved to, they had a story to tell.

But who was gonna listen

Allow me to take a stab at this.

There is much history like this, this is not the only story of its nature, this is just one of the larger ones.

This type of thing is part of what makes white people and black people look at this country so differetly.

For instance, if I say they criminal justice system in this country is racist, many may shrug it off.

Aside from empirical evidence to prove that black defendants are convicted more often, sentenced to lobger sentences and are given the death penalty more often in cases with similar charges and circumstances, I would also point to a long history of the criminal justice system committing atrocities against black people in this country.

And I dont mean things as far back as 1921 either. In 1988 my friends were locked up for the central park jogger rape case, and I easily could have been among them. Right now there is a case called the Jena 6, which sounds a lot like the case of the scottsboro boys. Google those things and just get a glimpse of what I mean.

So I thik PLayas post isn't quite as helpful as it could be, but I dont think wheres hes coming from is someplace bad. There is a sense of denial in this country about the depth and breadth (or dare I say lenght & girth) of the atrocities comminted against black people in this country and the sad thing is, for all of the improvements, there are major major things still going horribly wrong in terms of the way the gov't practices institutional racism.

Hillary CLinton recently made the point that if white men were going to prison in the numbers that black and latino men have been (on drug charges) these mandatory minimums would have been done away with a long time ago.

I see that as white supremacy. Not KKK hood wearing White supremacy, but just the basic notion that the lives of non-white people are not as valuable as whites. That is white supremacy, it is the institutional racism that is the most prevelant and most dangerous form of racism in our country. That is the underlying thought behind our criminal justice system, educational system and many other critical institutions. And if folsk dont think it is white supremacy, I'd love to know what they think it is.

There are really two answers to this question:
1. If white people know what it is like to be black or latino in this country, why then do some of these grotesque institutional inequalities continue to exist?

A. Average white Americans dont know.
B. Average white Americans dont care. And not caring could be because they are actively racist or because they have a political perspective which allows them to view issues in a way that denies the role of institutions in what is going on in this country. These peole may not be actively racist, but they are defacto racists, because of the impact that their views and votes have.

So there is a small piece of my understanding of the world, I hope someone found it helpful.

Institutional inequalities exist because they've been institutionalized. Thats what makes them so darn pervasive. In general the lower class fills our prisons. Its not a race thing. What is a race thing is why the lower class is predominantly non-white. You can't fix the prison issue without fixing the more longstanding problem. Hence, change comes slowly... perhaps in a few more generations institutional equality will catch up to the way most of America feels.

Posted by Killa4luv:

Allow me to take a stab at this.

There is much history like this, this is not the only story of its nature, this is just one of the larger ones.

This type of thing is part of what makes white people and black people look at this country so differetly.

For instance, if I say they criminal justice system in this country is racist, many may shrug it off.

Aside from empirical evidence to prove that black defendants are convicted more often, sentenced to lobger sentences and are given the death penalty more often in cases with similar charges and circumstances, I would also point to a long history of the criminal justice system committing atrocities against black people in this country.

And I dont mean things as far back as 1921 either. In 1988 my friends were locked up for the central park jogger rape case, and I easily could have been among them. Right now there is a case called the Jena 6, which sounds a lot like the case of the scottsboro boys. Google those things and just get a glimpse of what I mean.

So I thik PLayas post isn't quite as helpful as it could be, but I dont think wheres hes coming from is someplace bad. There is a sense of denial in this country about the depth and breadth (or dare I say lenght & girth) of the atrocities comminted against black people in this country and the sad thing is, for all of the improvements, there are major major things still going horribly wrong in terms of the way the gov't practices institutional racism.

Hillary CLinton recently made the point that if white men were going to prison in the numbers that black and latino men have been (on drug charges) these mandatory minimums would have been done away with a long time ago.

I see that as white supremacy. Not KKK hood wearing White supremacy, but just the basic notion that the lives of non-white people are not as valuable as whites. That is white supremacy, it is the institutional racism that is the most prevelant and most dangerous form of racism in our country. That is the underlying thought behind our criminal justice system, educational system and many other critical institutions. And if folsk dont think it is white supremacy, I'd love to know what they think it is.

There are really two answers to this question:
1. If white people know what it is like to be black or latino in this country, why then do some of these grotesque institutional inequalities continue to exist?

A. Average white Americans dont know.
B. Average white Americans dont care. And not caring could be because they are actively racist or because they have a political perspective which allows them to view issues in a way that denies the role of institutions in what is going on in this country. These peole may not be actively racist, but they are defacto racists, because of the impact that their views and votes have.

So there is a small piece of my understanding of the world, I hope someone found it helpful.

Even if this is the case it will change soon.
Whites (and blacks for this meatter) will be a minority in America pretty soon.
This will be hispanic/asian country and all prespectives will change.

Playa I understand your need to say some things but the main thing to me is I'm very glad a lot of things have changed since 1921. A lot of groups of people have come along way since then. Women could not even vote back then. Jewish people had the holocaust, blacks had the 1960's as well.
Nothing wrong in looking back and remembering but lets be thankful that our country has come such a long way

That's true Cossucks, but our constitution is the same. Every person is considered equal in America?

When I travel to canada 5 minutes away people treat me with respect and dignity regardless of what I wear or how I look or what car I drive.

If any of you had the canadian experience you know what I am talking about.

Where I live upstate all of my neighbors are white , we do things for each other when needs arise celebrate our kids together and everything.

There was a block party everybody invited good times,

but when they start to drink, all bets are off.

I know some percieve me as a guy who's lifestyle is straight up ghetto racist which is not the case.

I grew up there as a kid and saw how people looked at me different because of how races are so segregated here .
But I guess upstate (WNY) is like night and day compared to the tri-state area.

Posted by kam77:

Institutional inequalities exist because they've been institutionalized. [quote]
Thats like saying murderers exist because murders happen. This makes no sense. Institutionalized racism because there is a culture of white supremacy in this country that plays itself out in the institutions which were built and controlled by rich white people.

[quote]Thats what makes them so darn pervasive. In general the lower class fills our prisons. Its not a race thing. What is a race thing is why the lower class is predominantly non-white. You can't fix the prison issue without fixing the more longstanding problem. Hence, change comes slowly... perhaps in a few more generations institutional equality will catch up to the way most of America feels.

No my friend, it is a race thing. Your point about class is taken, I'm clear that class is a critical issue, but when 5 grams of crack gives you a mandatory minimum of 5 years and it takes 100x more grams of cocaine to get the same mandatory minimum, yes we are talking about seriously racist law making. When you look at the way the death oenalty is applied, by race of victim, or by race of perpetrator, you see very clearly that the courts believe that white life is more valuable than non-white life. These are documented facts. It is largely about class, but it is at least equally about race, when you look at certain statistics there is no other reasonable conclusion to be drawn.